The Zack Snyder's Justice League *Respectful* Film Discussion

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Been thinking and the theatrical cut of JL, Synder was at a lose lose, if it did well then WB would've chalked it up to all the additional reshoot material and would probably have that be the blue print going forward thus ending the Snyder-verse, or if it did poorly (like it did) ending the Snyder-verse anyway.

Dear lord, what a disastrous decision by Warner Bros. Granted, I donÂ’t think it would have helped much. The vitriolic response might have been less pronounced as the 3 hour version of BvS actually makes sense, but I suspect it still would have been viewed as an over long slog by casual audiences.

Especially since the marketing leaned so much on the BvS aspect, the main fight didn't happen well into the UE. I would say $800m for BvS is actually a pretty good number now it is all said and done.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Honestly, did they even have to actually fight each other, or could they have simply been rival heroes comparing their respective methods?

It would've been better if they started as rival heroes comparing methods and trying to see if they could work together. So if they have a falling out at the midpoint or climax you could say atleast say it was earned.

Terrio's article was pretty damning. WB wanted to catch up with Marvel so bad they cut off their nose to spite their face. Most of my problems with the Snyderverse get explained away here.

[CosmiComic]

It would've been better if they started as rival heroes comparing methods and trying to see if they could work together. So if they have a falling out at the midpoint or climax you could say atleast say it was earned.

Terrio's article was pretty damning. WB wanted to catch up with Marvel so bad they cut off their nose to spite their face.

I think your suggestion could would.

As for WB, it could've been ahead of the game. Darkseid now looks like the discount Thanos to the general public! We barely got MM, and Atom didn't even do anything. Now Superman and Cyborg are in limbo and Batman doesn't seem to even be in this universe anymore

[Nomads1]

wow, glad he got to truly showcase his work

Though I watched the Snydercut the following day it was released (a friday night. Four hours? you have to make an event of it), I haven't joined any of the discussions about it.
Do I like Snyder's darker/Injustice-inspired version of the DCU? No, I don't. For me, the DCU is a bright and hopeful place.
Was it better than Whedon's JL. Yes. Without a doubt. Much, much, MUCH better. It's unbelievable the the Warner execs had THIS in their hands and they chose to go with the subpar version they released to their audience.
Did I like it? Yes, a lot. As I said, I may not like much Snyder's vision for the DCU, but this made ir perfectly clear that he HAD a vision, a definitive vision of where he was taking this universe, and not the hot mess, everbody's version goes, that they are giving us now.
Now, since comparissions seem inevitable, was it better than ENDGAME? Yes, but not better than Infinity War. Sorry, but Endgame was a mess. It let politics and WOKENESS get in the way of telling a good story. It wimpified it's heroes, it's characters, throwing out the window years of character development. It was written by executives, thinking of the next step, not by creators trying to wrap their story. It could have been great, however, it wasn't. Infinity War, on the other hand, though ending on a cliffhanger, was everything Endgame wasn't. The Snydercut is better than many Marvel films, but there are still a couple that put it to shame.
Do I wish Warner would reconsider and reset to the Snyderverse? Yes, and no. The timeframe doesn't work anymore. Too much time has passed since JL. Ben Affleck, especifically, is a bit to old to handle many more years of getting in extraordinary shape to play Batman again, and his Batman is a central piece of the whole vision. Amy adams, IMHO, too. A younger Lois would be better. Not sure if Fisher would come back to play Cyborg again. Most of the others still have it in them to give it a few more years, especially Cavill. It's criminal to have a guy so perfect for a major role like this, who is able and willing to do it, and you keep him in the sidelines. So, as it was, I guess his vision would not be workable, but you could use Flashpoint to tweak a little bit this universe, cherry-picking some things to reboot, while keeping the vast majority. Maybe you could evben have a slightly more upbeat and sunny universe come out of it. Clark Kent could have his secret ID again. His relationship with Lois might be at a diferent stage. A new GL could be introduced. A younger Batman would be around, maybe a less darker one, however, a less intrested in making friends. Batman's always been about the mission, for me.
Do I think it's going to happen? Nah! People nowadays seem to hate making money.
However, nobody ever expected to see this version released.

Peace

[CosmiComic]

How did wokeness ruin Endgame?

[Primal Slayer]

Especially since the marketing leaned so much on the BvS aspect, the main fight didn't happen well into the UE. I would say $800m for BvS is actually a pretty good number now it is all said and done.

It's a good number if you arent Batman or Superman. But the fact that the two biggest heroes couldnt crack 1 million together and the box office being top heavy (it made most of its money during its 1st week and then had a drastic fall) is what makes it a flop..

[Nomads1]

How did wokeness ruin Endgame?

IMHO, the neutering of the two most powerful Avengers and their "toxic masculinity"; the comming of the all-powerful Captain Marvel, to basically do everything that Thor himself could have done; the ridiculous A-Force scene in the middle of the batttle, etc... Ruin may be a too strong word, but it sure kept the film from being much better, in my opinion. As i said, I think Infinity War was a much better film, with a tighter story.

Peace

Peace

[lefthanded]

IMHO, the neutering of the two most powerful Avengers and their "toxic masculinity"; the comming of the all-powerful Captain Marvel, to basically do everything that Thor himself could have done; the ridiculous A-Force scene in the middle of the batttle, etc... Ruin may be a too strong word, but it sure kept the film from being much better, in my opinion. As i said, I think Infinity War was a much better film, with a tighter story.

Peace

Peace

I'll give you that the A-Force scene was on the nose, but if your main gripe is power levels in a final battle, then that is more about personal preferences as to what makes a good movie.

[lefthanded]

I read Chris Terrio's interview (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...man-v-superman). It doesn't make Warner Bros any worse than the interview is setting out to do.

His BvS defense is that he made it less dark than it was in the original screenplay (written by Goyer and Snyder). He complains that Warner Bros said that Terrio's script was still too dark. But, if Terrio was specifically brought in by Warner Bros to do a rewrite on a script, then it is his job to do what Warner Bros wants to do. He claims that BvS didn't work because they lopped off a bunch of character development, but even in the full Ultimate edition, the additional scenes merely add coherency rather than actual character development.

He says he is proud of his original script being shown in the Snyder Cut, specifically referencing the Flash-Iris Allen, which is a very cringey scene (Imagine someone you don't know tenderly caressing your hair at super speed without your awareness? It's played as a rom-com meet cute type situation, but comes across as creepy). Again, similar situation - JL movie didn't have coherency because they cut out parts of his script, but Snyder cut with full script has more coherency but still no more character development.

It seems his scripts are merely coherent rather than good (Argo was a very forgettable movie)

I just don't think Chris Terrio is a good writer at all, and with Snyder being credited as a co-writer on all the scripts (BvS - both with Goyer, and with Terrio; JL with Terrio), it doesn't seem like the end products had much of a chance.

[Nomads1]

I'll give you that the A-Force scene was on the nose, but if your main gripe is power levels in a final battle, then that is more about personal preferences as to what makes a good movie.

I don't intend to make this about Endgame. It's a thread about the Snydercut, anyway. But I think it went beyond personal preferences. As I said, it was like business executives writing acording to what's to come next and the company's politics, instead of creators writing to give characters they've been setting up for a decade their dues. It could have been much better, IMHO. You all may feel diferent, and that's your right. I still cheered like crazy in the Avengers Assemble scene, though.

Peace

[I'm a Fish]

It's a good number if you arent Batman or Superman. But the fact that the two biggest heroes couldnt crack 1 million together and the box office being top heavy (it made most of its money during its 1st week and then had a drastic fall) is what makes it a flop..

(you mean 1 billion, yes?)

But yeah, Wonder Woman whooped BvS domestically and Aquaman whooped BvS globally. And not by small numbers either. And those where the characters Snyder wanted to be absent for most of his 2nd and 3rd installment (perhaps that is why the got solo movies). Now going forward, they are all that's going to be left of his universe in a way.

Sometimes I wonder if character fatigue is part of it, since Batman and Superman both have so many movies and tv shows and adaptations. But since the first week had a strong opening, perhaps not.

[Pinsir]

(you mean 1 billion, yes?)

But yeah, Wonder Woman whooped BvS domestically and Aquaman whooped BvS globally. And not by small numbers either. And those where the characters Snyder wanted to be absent for most of his 2nd and 3rd installment (perhaps that is why the got solo movies). Now going forward, they are all that's going to be left of his universe in a way.

Sometimes I wonder if character fatigue is part of it, since Batman and Superman both have so many movies and tv shows and adaptations. But since the first week had a strong opening, perhaps not.

It's not so much character fatigue, just that reboots almost never garner the original heights of the franchise prior.

[CosmiComic]

I don't intend to make this about Endgame. It's a thread about the Snydercut, anyway. But I think it went beyond personal preferences. As I said, it was like business executives writing acording to what's to come next and the company's politics, instead of creators writing to give characters they've been setting up for a decade their dues. It could have been much better, IMHO. You all may feel diferent, and that's your right. I still cheered like crazy in the Avengers Assemble scene, though.

Peace

I'll agree to disagree with you about Endgame

It's not so much character fatigue, just that reboots almost never garner the original heights of the franchise prior.

It doesn't help the recent efforts haven't stood well on their own

[Castling]

It's a good number if you arent Batman or Superman. But the fact that the two biggest heroes couldnt crack 1 million together and the box office being top heavy (it made most of its money during its 1st week and then had a drastic fall) is what makes it a flop..

Wonder Woman was in there, too. So, the three biggest superheroes.

[Primal Slayer]

(you mean 1 billion, yes?)

But yeah, Wonder Woman whooped BvS domestically and Aquaman whooped BvS globally. And not by small numbers either. And those where the characters Snyder wanted to be absent for most of his 2nd and 3rd installment (perhaps that is why the got solo movies). Now going forward, they are all that's going to be left of his universe in a way.

Sometimes I wonder if character fatigue is part of it, since Batman and Superman both have so many movies and tv shows and adaptations. But since the first week had a strong opening, perhaps not.

lol oops, yes.

I dont think fatigue had anything to do with it. BvS flopped because it was a boring film. It opened up to MEGA NUMBERS and if it had been good, it would've crossed a billion so fast and probably be the top grossing DC film ever. Spiderman was rebooted 3 times within a 10 year span and was able to be successful.

Wonder Woman was in there, too. So, the three biggest superheroes.

yeah, that definitely should've given them extra excentive. Though luckily it wasnt WWs movie so she couldnt be blamed for any floppage.