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  1. #61
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    I don't like Man of Steel or Batman vs Superman. I like moments in the films but not the films as a whole. That being said, I've probably rewatched them more than I have most Marvel movies.

    Honestly if it wasn't for the Snyder Cut I probably would have left these films behind me. The Snyder Cut is such a strange phenomenon, I'm even taking a day off of work so I can watch it when it releases (if it wasn't 4 hours than I wouldn't have bothered). I'm not expecting it to be good, but I'm not hoping it's bad either. I'm expecting it to be better than Justice League though, just because Snyder clearly had more passion in the project than Whedon, stuff like that shows.

    Snyder is clearly a Frank Millar and Alan Moore fan who didn't understand the The Dark Knight Returns and The Watchmen take place in their own sort-of pocket dimensions for a reason. I'm not bashing him for liking those stories and wanting to emulate them, they are good stories. However, building an entire universe with potentially dozens of spinoffs off of very grim stories with extreme characters that aren't particularly likeable isn't a good method to garner a large fan base. Batman riding driving his Batmobile around with twin machine guns mounted onto the hood shooting goons, yeah that can be entertaining if it was an alternate universe Batman, but if that's the main continuity Batman it just raises all sorts of problems in-universe.

    Regardless, I am still clearly curious about the Snyder Cut. I'm at least hoping to enjoy myself even if I end up not liking the movie.

  2. #62
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I don't like Man of Steel or Batman vs Superman. I like moments in the films but not the films as a whole. That being said, I've probably rewatched them more than I have most Marvel movies.

    Honestly if it wasn't for the Snyder Cut I probably would have left these films behind me. The Snyder Cut is such a strange phenomenon, I'm even taking a day off of work so I can watch it when it releases (if it wasn't 4 hours than I wouldn't have bothered). I'm not expecting it to be good, but I'm not hoping it's bad either. I'm expecting it to be better than Justice League though, just because Snyder clearly had more passion in the project than Whedon, stuff like that shows.

    Snyder is clearly a Frank Millar and Alan Moore fan who didn't understand the The Dark Knight Returns and The Watchmen take place in their own sort-of pocket dimensions for a reason. I'm not bashing him for liking those stories and wanting to emulate them, they are good stories. However, building an entire universe with potentially dozens of spinoffs off of very grim stories with extreme characters that aren't particularly likeable isn't a good method to garner a large fan base. Batman riding driving his Batmobile around with twin machine guns mounted onto the hood shooting goons, yeah that can be entertaining if it was an alternate universe Batman, but if that's the main continuity Batman it just raises all sorts of problems in-universe.

    Regardless, I am still clearly curious about the Snyder Cut. I'm at least hoping to enjoy myself even if I end up not liking the movie.
    I am more or less in the same boat. As much as I have serious issues with the approach Snyder took towards the DCU, I find his films compelling enough that I keep revisiting them. I enjoy the tone of what Feige built with the MCU, but I am glad that the DC films aren't that. I don't want a bunch of the same type of superhero films. Even if they fail, I want these films to take big swings.

    For better or worse, Zack Snyder swings for the fences every damn time.

  3. #63
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    Snyder really should stop pushing these Christen allegory in JL.
    Superman as Christ, Sure.
    Wonder Woman as Jeanne d'Arc, Why?
    Batman as St Sebastian, WTF?
    And the whole Holy Grail and King Arthur thing, not a big fan.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I am more or less in the same boat. As much as I have serious issues with the approach Snyder took towards the DCU, I find his films compelling enough that I keep revisiting them. I enjoy the tone of what Feige built with the MCU, but I am glad that the DC films aren't that. I don't want a bunch of the same type of superhero films. Even if they fail, I want these films to take big swings.

    For better or worse, Zack Snyder swings for the fences every damn time.
    That'd be impressive if he didn't do the same thing all the time, and actually tried to improve what he's been criticized of instead of ignoring it and doubling down.
    He can swing for the fences all he wants but when he never tries to improve his clearly flawed batting form it's not something he should be commended for.
    Last edited by Jewel Runner; 02-28-2021 at 03:56 PM.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    That'd be impressive if he didn't do the same thing all the time, and actually tried to improve what he's been criticized of instead of ignoring it and doubling down.
    He can swing for the fences all he wants but when he never tries to improve his clearly flawed batting form it's not something he should be commended for.
    He said his Justice League is supposed to have a more lighthearted tone.

    He still had Amazons being chopped in half and filmed scene that were so violent that WB wanted them cut from the movie (before the whole movie was cut from the movie). So I'm curious on how lighthearted he means, we will all know soon enough.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    He said his Justice League is supposed to have a more lighthearted tone.

    He still had Amazons being chopped in half and filmed scene that were so violent that WB wanted them cut from the movie (before the whole movie was cut from the movie). So I'm curious on how lighthearted he means, we will all know soon enough.
    I think Snyder's ideas for lighthearted might not exactly jibe with what others are looking for. I mean, this was the guy who thought it'd be fun to shoot Jimmy Olsen in the head

    That said, I am curious what course corrections we'll see from the excessively dour BvS.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    That'd be impressive if he didn't do the same thing all the time, and actually tried to improve what he's been criticized of instead of ignoring it and doubling down.
    He can swing for the fences all he wants but when he never tries to improve his clearly flawed batting form it's not something he should be commended for.
    I think Snyder certainly took the criticism of MoS to heart and took pains to address the collateral damage from the Metropolis fight and went out of his way to point out how the Doomsday fight was taking place in areas that we evacuated.

    As for Snyder's style. That isn't really something that he should be expected to change. He'd been hired because the studio wanted a Zack Snyder film so he delivered that. It's not really fair to expect him to do something completely different, even if it's something some audiences didn't care for.

    You don't buy an orange and get upset at it for not being an apple

  8. #68
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalai View Post
    Snyder really should stop pushing these Christen allegory in JL.
    Superman as Christ, Sure.
    Wonder Woman as Jeanne d'Arc, Why?
    Batman as St Sebastian, WTF?
    And the whole Holy Grail and King Arthur thing, not a big fan.
    hahaha!finally other characters will get to feel superman's pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think Snyder certainly took the criticism of MoS to heart and took pains to address the collateral damage from the Metropolis fight and went out of his way to point out how the Doomsday fight was taking place in areas that we evacuated.
    Yeah! that didn't work for me a bit.Not the kinda addressing i would want.Although, i would take his conversation with jonathan as much better addressing the issue.Ofcourse,they didn't expand on superman in these movies.That's a shame.But,i don't hold snyder that much responsible for that.These guys have always been about batman.
    "They said,i was a hero"
    "But the whole lang farm washed away and the horses drowned while i ate my hero's cake"
    "Did the nightmares ever stop?"
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-28-2021 at 11:34 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think Snyder certainly took the criticism of MoS to heart and took pains to address the collateral damage from the Metropolis fight and went out of his way to point out how the Doomsday fight was taking place in areas that we evacuated.

    As for Snyder's style. That isn't really something that he should be expected to change. He'd been hired because the studio wanted a Zack Snyder film so he delivered that. It's not really fair to expect him to do something completely different, even if it's something some audiences didn't care for.

    You don't buy an orange and get upset at it for not being an apple
    That was in no way taking criticism to heart that was paying lip service at best, he didn't do anything remotely different he just had the characters say there were no civilians around when they were fighting
    And you can't use the excuse "that's his film style" if his film style is having 1 dimensional characters, shallow plots and heavy-handed symbolism then he definitely needs to change it

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    That was in no way taking criticism to heart that was paying lip service at best, he didn't do anything remotely different he just had the characters say there were no civilians around when they were fighting
    And you can't use the excuse "that's his film style" if his film style is having 1 dimensional characters, shallow plots and heavy-handed symbolism then he definitely needs to change it
    He specifically had Batman lure Doomsday to an area where people were not present which is what his critics were complaining that Superman did not do in MoS.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    He specifically had Batman lure Doomsday to an area where people were not present which is what his critics were complaining that Superman did not do in MoS.
    Exactly what I said he just had the characters mention there were no civilians where they were fighting, and didn't try to do anything remotely different

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    That was in no way taking criticism to heart that was paying lip service at best, he didn't do anything remotely different he just had the characters say there were no civilians around when they were fighting
    And you can't use the excuse "that's his film style" if his film style is having 1 dimensional characters, shallow plots and heavy-handed symbolism then he definitely needs to change it
    That's his problem; you just accurately described his film style. Basically, he's just not very good as a director or story teller. He is as I've stated before, a decent second unit director, or AD, (I'm sure he can fetch coffee quite well). I'd have said he might make a decent FX supervisor, except for that trick he let his FX crew pull in MoS, which was totally unprofessional IMO, and took you out of the moment. So....second unit director maybe? It's a shame he couldn't marry directing and storytelling talent with his obvious people skills, (well, his casts mostly seem to like him).

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    That was in no way taking criticism to heart that was paying lip service at best, he didn't do anything remotely different he just had the characters say there were no civilians around when they were fighting
    And you can't use the excuse "that's his film style" if his film style is having 1 dimensional characters, shallow plots and heavy-handed symbolism then he definitely needs to change it
    It's pretty much what happens in comic books as well - people do get hurt when Superman and others fight, just that it's much for visceral in films (Marvel just outright ignored collateral damage for a few films and only addressed it after MoS came out). But, I don't see it as a slight against these films.

    Of course, you can choose to dislike it - that's your viewpoint ultimately, but doesn't mean it's right or wrong (or that Snyder has to change his style to suit others' taste).

    Why do you think it needs to be excused or justified? At the end of the day, film is art - and a creator may approach it seems fit for them, and for their way of storytelling (doesn't mean that their storytelling is wrong or that others have to like - clearly the general audience didn't care for his storytelling in BvS). Ultimately, it's on the studio if they chose to hire Snyder and expected something other than his own vision + form of storytelling in movies he make.
    DC Extended Universe Thread (DCEU)

    That's how it starts. The fever. The rage. The feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men....Cruel - Alfred.

    This may be the only thing that I do that matters - Bruce.

    Stay down, if I wanted it, you would be dead already - Clark.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    hahaha!finally other characters will get to feel superman's pain.

    Yeah! that didn't work for me a bit.Not the kinda addressing i would want.Although, i would take his conversation with jonathan as much better addressing the issue.Ofcourse,they didn't expand on superman in these movies.That's a shame.But,i don't hold snyder that much responsible for that.These guys have always been about batman.
    "They said,i was a hero"
    "But the whole lang farm washed away and the horses drowned while i ate my hero's cake"
    "Did the nightmares ever stop?"
    Yea, I like that convo with ghost Jonathan - actions have consequences, whether one may like it or not (I would definitely love to see Peace on Earth adapted into movie form. But I imagine a lot of people aren't going to be happy to see that lol).
    DC Extended Universe Thread (DCEU)

    That's how it starts. The fever. The rage. The feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men....Cruel - Alfred.

    This may be the only thing that I do that matters - Bruce.

    Stay down, if I wanted it, you would be dead already - Clark.

  15. #75
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple J View Post
    Yea, I like that convo with ghost Jonathan - actions have consequences, whether one may like it or not (I would definitely love to see Peace on Earth adapted into movie form. But I imagine a lot of people aren't going to be happy to see that lol).
    People have wierd notions regarding superman.He is not character.He is perfection for them.Their own virtuous side multiplies by a hundred.

    One punch man basically makes fun of the guys crying "Collateral damage" when the alternative extinction.I tend to prefer one punch man.It's much more like the old siegel and shuster comics.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

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