The Zack Snyder's Justice League *Respectful* Film Discussion

[Rev9]

Knightmare future, from what Snyder has said over the years and what was on the early pitch boards, is all on the post apocalyptic Earth we saw in BvS.

Original pitch was it would come at the end of JL2. Darkseid kills Lois, Superman succumbs to anti-life and then jump 5 years later to Knightmare. JL3 (or 2A as they pitched it) opened with GL crashing (Hal in the artwork but not named in the pitch) on Earth. He's saved by Batman, Flash, and Deadshot. GL is looking for his partner, another Earth GL who's presumed dead like most GLs as Darkseid is conquering the universe. Cyborg has built (or helped build) the cosmic treadmill, they plan to send Flash back in time with a message, Batman tells him to change the message.

Knightmare JL steal a motherbox to power the treadmill, evil Superman chases them, basically kills everyone as they get the motherbox to Flash and he just makes it away in time to give Batman a different message so they prevent the death of Lois and Superman going evil.

Based on Snyder's comments we know the the plan has been changed so Knightmare is now the main part of JL2 rather than the cliffhanger of JL2 and first half of JL3 (second half was the big battle with Darkseid and the epilogue). So it sounds like a lot of the set up stuff from the JL2 pitch is either being omitted or maybe just the barebones given in flashbacks or exposition. Deadshot has been replaced by Deathstroke and maybe Joker, and flashbacks to Robin's death are something he's spoken about (with the potential for the Knightmare story and Robin's death or just Robin's death to be told in comics as well) so that might be in there. But it sounds like the broad strokes are still the same.

No mention of ever going to Apokolips or what Martian Manhunter's role would be. Even Darkseid never shows up in the Knightmare future in the pitch, just evil Superman.

Evil Superman adds nothing to Clark's arc because it's just reversed. He submits when Lois dies and is just Darkseid's puppet/evil from then on. There's no conflict suggested in the pitch or by Snyder to the best of my knowledge. None of the usual, Superman breaks the control when pushed to kill displaying that his will is stronger. He's used as the main villain, kills the League, then it's all undone. No character growth at all.

Well there are other ways of making Clark overcome evil Superman and the best way is a literal fight between the two.I had this idea before JL was even announced just by thinking how 'knightmare' timeline could be undone, and my idea was to stop Evil superman ,Flash travels in time and instead of coming when he came to Batman he comes while Superman is fighting Doomsday and leaves WWoman to kill him with the spear and takes him into the future to that future timeline to fight his evil version. Now thinking about it a better build up would be to in JL2 before the end of it if they for example had Flash come to Superman before he even met Batman ,narrate to him the future and reveal he knows a lot of things yet to happen in the world like football score, election e.t.c then Kal would believe him and so he goes to the future with Flash through the speed force to fight his evil self. Alternatively Martian Manhunter telepathically or Green Lantern amplifying willpower, could make him snap out of his villainous 'haze' .By then perhaps even magic through some members of Justice League Dark like Zatanna could come in.I'm sure Clark's redemption could be written well.Though his past self fighting his future self is the best option since even if he kills his future self or magically merges with him, he would survive(to hold reality his past self has to survive the encounter). I guess he would just need to go back to his own timeline in the end.I also heard Batman was meant to die in an act of self sacrifice, maybe he died after destroying Evil Superman along with himself or died stopping Darkseid killing Lois, when they had a re-do.Who knows, we may never know, unless JL2 may yet be made.ZSJL was a dream come true for many , maybe we can dare to dream some more.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Honestly, these films have divided fans long enough, it's time to move forward. I'm happy his fan base are getting this for closure but don't feel we should be going any further down that rabbit hole.

I'm in the same boat. I'm glad that Snyder's getting a chance to finish this film on his own terms, but these big budget superhero films are aimed towards a much larger audience than it seems Snyder's making his films towards. The DCU always felt like a poor fit for him. Snyder would be better suited towards building his own franchises or exploring material that jibes more with his darker, more cynical, worldview.

I'd rather see Snyder do something like a remake of Excalibur or The Boys than keep struggling with a character like Superman, which will forever put him at odds with vast chunks of the audience, who don't want to see the character deconstructed.

If Snyder does stick around the DCU, which is highly unlikely, I'd love to see him do another Batman film with Affleck focused on Arkham Asylum or go full-Snyder on something completely ridiculous and cynical like Lobo and L.E.G.I.O.N.

[Lightning Rider]

I'm disappointed about this latest leak. All I wanna do is wait for the damn movie to come out. Now I feel like I'll have to stay away from the internet for the next 9 days.

I hope the mods are rigorous in protecting all of us from spoilers.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yes, absolutely no spoilers on this thread until the film is officially released.

[Rev9]

I'm in the same boat. I'm glad that Snyder's getting a chance to finish this film on his own terms, but these big budget superhero films are aimed towards a much larger audience than it seems Snyder's making his films towards. The DCU always felt like a poor fit for him. Snyder would be better suited towards building his own franchises or exploring material that jibes more with his darker, more cynical, worldview.

I'd rather see Snyder do something like a remake of Excalibur or The Boys than keep struggling with a character like Superman, which will forever put him at odds with vast chunks of the audience, who don't want to see the character deconstructed.

If Snyder does stick around the DCU, which is highly unlikely, I'd love to see him do another Batman film with Affleck focused on Arkham Asylum or go full-Snyder on something completely ridiculous and cynical like Lobo and L.E.G.I.O.N.

I'd love to see him do a Justice League Dark film, if he stuck around.

ps: if you guys are directing the 'no spoiler' comment at me .this (Batman's possible death) was revealed as a possible script narrative years ago when Zack began revealing he had a five part arc planned.So I think/thought it's common knowledge..with changes effected to the script anyway who knows if this is still part of it.I think JL will not end on a four note.Though if it does happen, sorry in advance.

[Lightning Rider]

I'd love to see him do a Justice League Dark film, if he stuck around.

ps: if you guys are directing the 'no spoiler' comment at me .this (Batman's possible death) was revealed as a possible script narrative years ago when Zack began revealing he had a five part arc planned.So I think/thought it's common knowledge..with changes effected to the script anyway who knows if this is still part of it.I think JL will not end on a four note.Though if it does happen, sorry in advance.

I wasn't directing the comment at you, but I don't know why you had to reiterate a possible spoiler in this post.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'd love to see him do a Justice League Dark film, if he stuck around.

ps: if you guys are directing the 'no spoiler' comment at me .this (Batman's possible death) was revealed as a possible script narrative years ago when Zack began revealing he had a five part arc planned.So I think/thought it's common knowledge..with changes effected to the script anyway who knows if this is still part of it.I think JL will not end on a four note.Though if it does happen, sorry in advance.

No, this was a blanket reminder to everyone to not spoil anything now that parts of the Snyder Cut are leaking online. Stuff that Snyder himself has already talked about is fair game. Same with the JL2 pitch boards that leaked. That's fair game because it's for a movie that doesn't exist and will never exist (in live-action anyway)

[Lightning Rider]

[bretmaverick2]

I’m not comparing the films until I have actually WATCHED both films.

[Brian B]

I'd love to see him do a Justice League Dark film, if he stuck around.

I’d love to see him take on the gods of New Genesis, maybe a Snyderverse Mister Miracle and Big Barda.

Or could you imagine what Snyder would do to Supergirl or a Synder-run Birds of Prey! Whoa! That’d be suw-weeet!

[Comics N' Toons]

My thoughts on Snyder have always been... like Tim Burton and other visual directors... he doesnt care about source material and simply wants to push his vision... That said, when a studio mandates some tiny level of faithfulness, he can make a damn good superhero flick... case and point... Watchmen!

I do think Man of Steel is better than most people give it credit for. There are some glaring things about that movie that just scream... NO!

His Justice League? Not a great movie, obviously... or they wouldnt be doing... whatever this is... but it wasn't a bad film... even if the characters didnt resemble very much of what I've been reading for decades.

[Brian B]

My thoughts on Snyder have always been... like Tim Burton and other visual directors... he doesnt care about source material and simply wants to push his vision... That said, when a studio mandates some tiny level of faithfulness, he can make a damn good superhero flick... case and point... Watchmen!

I do think Man of Steel is better than most people give it credit for. There are some glaring things about that movie that just scream... NO!

His Justice League? Not a great movie, obviously... or they wouldnt be doing... whatever this is... but it wasn't a bad film... even if the characters didnt resemble very much of what I've been reading for decades.

The odd thing to me is, and I mentioned this in the TV/film area, I recently watched all the Snyderverse movies on HBO Max. There’s more bad than good there. But I watch these Snyder Cut trailers and I get so pumped for the Snyder Cut. It’s not even sensible.

[Rev9]

I just heard of the 'leak' today, was the entire movie leaked or just an hour? I don't think it's a marketing ploy.Someone wants or wanted to scupper this movie.

[K. Jones]

I tend to leave it out of film discussions for anything other than Star Wars, but I'm excited to see Zack Snyder's Justice League. A back-story for why that matters in any way; I liked Man of Steel a fair bit but with criticisms, the biggest being you know, dour color filters, low pallets and frankly it being a cardinal example of the over-reliance by bad storytellers on non-chronological storytelling (everyone wanting to do Chris Nolan in the Post-Memento universe - even Batman Begins didn't play with flashbacks that heavily).

Two, I thought Batman v. Superman was terrible. Never saw Suicide Squad because also looked terrible.

Three, context though - I still thought Justice League was worse. Bipolar, poorly constructed, kind of vapid, obviously missing parts. Don't like Ezra Miller as Flash, love Ben Affleck but think he's miscast, and so on and so forth! But even that being said ... Snyder Cut looks like a far more authorial, artistic, cohesive thing, with a lot more DC Deep Cuts. Will they be stylized to the point where I'm like "oh okay it's that character" instead of "You've brought my fandom to life, sir!" Yes, assuredly so. But it makes far more sense, it's nice to see them and it's clear he cares and had a notion for who he wanted to use and how they'd play into some kind of Darkseid Crisis Saga of Bleakness with kind of heavy metal/high fantasy iconography and I respect that.

[Kingdom X]

My thoughts on Snyder have always been... like Tim Burton and other visual directors... he doesnt care about source material and simply wants to push his vision... That said, when a studio mandates some tiny level of faithfulness, he can make a damn good superhero flick... case and point... Watchmen!

I do think Man of Steel is better than most people give it credit for. There are some glaring things about that movie that just scream... NO!

His Justice League? Not a great movie, obviously... or they wouldnt be doing... whatever this is... but it wasn't a bad film... even if the characters didnt resemble very much of what I've been reading for decades.

I was actually a big fan of Man of Steel (I was also a freshman in HS when I watched it so my tastes have definitely evolved). I only saw the extended cut of BvS because I heard the theatrical release was bad, and it definitely fixed a lot of the plot holes that people complained about but I could not get behind killing Superman in his second appearance for the sake of Jesus allegory.

I got to see Justice League for free at a special screening at my university and I remember being so pumped before hand and so underwhelmed afterwards (glad it was free tho). I’m really glad he’ll get to complete his creative vision even if I didn’t agree with the general direction.