Phil Jimenez talks about his Superwoman book

[HsssH]

Ok, I'll give him that. But we probably can all agree that his Superman was trash?

[Hypo]

https://twitter.com/Philjimeneznyc/s...99434000457731



https://twitter.com/Philjimeneznyc/s...96965983846402



https://twitter.com/Philjimeneznyc/s...96360426995714

[Thor-Ul]

And again someone got something other person said and twisted with his own bias and transformed it into an argument of confirmation for other persons about their preconceived ideas and worldview.

1. Don't believe automatically anything you saw on the web.
2. Even if it hurts you, consider your posture could be wrong.
3. Yes, I could be wrong.

[Robanker]

Ok, I'll give him that. But we probably can all agree that his Superman was trash?

Absolutely not. It was uneven to be sure, but I enjoyed Rebirth a lot. It's part of what brought me back into the fold as New 52 pretty much pushed me out for a while.

[Vordan]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Man I get what Tomasi was going for but it could not have come at a worst time or been delivered in a worse way. It was like he just copied and pasted Wikipedia and had Lois & Clark just infodumping on all of us. Plus blind patriotism for the armed forces does not suit Lois Lane at all, full stop. It doesn’t suit Clark either but I get that’s probably a lost cause at this point. Add in terrible filler art and this is where the run fell off hard for me, and never recovered until the final Bizarro arc. Tomasi kept trying to recreate the magic of that fairground issue, but he had Jorge Jimenez for that, that guy can make anything look damn good, and it helped elevate the issue. The other stuff, this vacation, and the issue where Superman took some kids into space, that all felt like clumsy attempts to bottle lightning again.

I have friends in the military and I hope I don’t wind up like some of the nut jobs I’ve seen ranting about how everyone in the armed forces kills babies or what not, especially since so many guys I know who joined up did so because they were poor and needed a way out of poverty, or were looking for purpose and the military provided. However, I’m pretty sure that issue came out in 2017, and man was I not in the mood for “America F*** Yeah!” in any shape or form after 2016. Didn’t help that it took forever for the filler to end either.

Ok, I'll give him that. But we probably can all agree that his Superman was trash?

Hah some people will, a few here. But as much I think Tomasi’s run is overrated (which is not the same as thinking it’s bad though there are certainly terrible arcs), I still like many arcs in his run. He used classic Superman Rogues like Manchester Black, and that always gets kudos from me. Jurgens may have created Jon, but for better or worse, Tomasi was the one who made the kid stick. His biggest success as a writer was helping to reestablish the Superfamily and making Jon stick. His biggest failure was that he whiffed it on Multiplicity and showed he couldn’t do big stakes storytelling, and that he couldn’t keep up with the double shipping. Both King and Williamson had plenty of ideas for their guys, but Tomasi clearly struggled with what to do with Superman and needed to be bailed out often with filler.

Absolutely not. It was uneven to be sure, but I enjoyed Rebirth a lot. It's part of what brought me back into the fold as New 52 pretty much pushed me out for a while.

Yeah, odd as it is for someone like me who will go to bat for the New 52, by the end of the New 52 I was out. I hated New 52 Truth and was so damn sick of the crossovers, so I left. Only came back when I heard the old Superman was back with a kid because I wanted to see what was up and I remembered liking Tomasi’s stuff in the past. Looking back now, I really overrated the run at the time, was very defensive of it when people complained it was boring at points. Funny to remember now given how I feel about it, but I’m still seriously considering getting the Rebirth Omnibus to put alongside my Morrison Action. For all his flaws, Tomasi’s issue 45 was the best “ending” for a Superman run since Morrison Action imo, although I can’t decide if I liked Bendis’ final Superman issue more.

https://twitter.com/Philjimeneznyc/s...99434000457731


https://twitter.com/Philjimeneznyc/s...96965983846402


https://twitter.com/Philjimeneznyc/s...96360426995714

Yeah I know that guy. He’s got some interesting critiques and analyses, but his hateboner for certain topics causes him to project his own feelings about certain works into the creators behind them. Funny to see Khouri and Jimenez outright contradict him though.

[DragonPiece]

So the trump note wasn't even a superman group mandate, tbh I still don't know what that could have referred to.

[Frontier]

Man I get what Tomasi was going for but it could not have come at a worst time or been delivered in a worse way. It was like he just copied and pasted Wikipedia and had Lois & Clark just infodumping on all of us. Plus blind patriotism for the armed forces does not suit Lois Lane at all, full stop. It doesn’t suit Clark either but I get that’s probably a lost cause at this point. Add in terrible filler art and this is where the run fell off hard for me, and never recovered until the final Bizarro arc. Tomasi kept trying to recreate the magic of that fairground issue, but he had Jorge Jimenez for that, that guy can make anything look damn good, and it helped elevate the issue. The other stuff, this vacation, and the issue where Superman took some kids into space, that all felt like clumsy attempts to bottle lightning again.

That does kind of make me wonder about Lois' opinion about the armed forces.

Like, yeah, she's a cynic of the government and politicians and has a complicated relationship with her dad because of his position and how that made him behave but she was still an army brat and probably had a lot of interaction with people in the service as a kid.

[Vordan]

That does kind of make me wonder about Lois' opinion about the armed forces.

Like, yeah, she's a cynic of the government and politicians and has a complicated relationship with her dad because of his position and how that made him behave but she was still an army brat and probably had a lot of interaction with people in the service as a kid.

Kinda got me wanting to write a blog post about this but how I see it:
-She sympathizes with a lot of individual soldiers while detesting the military-industrial complex as a whole and the people who profit from it
-She knows there’s true blue patriots, people who are just joining up for adventure, or for the benefits, or to escape situations at home, and power tripping psychos all working there (Corbyn is an example of the first group that became the last in my interpretation of him)
-She knows the government frequently screws the grunts over while using patriotism as a shield
-She never is satisfied with “it’s a matter of national security” as an answer and will always dig into specifics
-She’d teach Jon about the complete history of America in wars, both the “good” and the “bad” that they don’t tell you about in schools, which is why the sanitized version Tomasi went with felt untrue to me
That’s my take

[kingaliencracker]

I would love someone to come forward and talk about just what was going on in the DC offices at that time. Because the whole Rebirth thing seemed like it was a last minute change that wasn't planned out very well.

You can kind of piece together what happened based on interviews Johns & Didio have given separately about the subject.

Essentially they hit a wall with New 52/DCYou, which Didio acknowledges was due to not having long-term goals or plans with those initiatives. Whether Didio was forced to go to Johns or did so on his own, Johns was then tasked to "fix" things with his Rebirth special as well as that subsequent initiative. But Didio felt that Rebirth was a nostalgia-grab, not a long-term solution, and immediately sought to undermine it. That's why all of it, including Superwoman and the other Rebirth titles, fell apart a year or less later.

[kingaliencracker]

It could also be a case where DC never directly said anything about "we needed to appeal more to Trump voters" but that what DC did say later got interpreted by Jimenez that way.
And after all, Superwoman #1 went on sale in August 2016; the last issue he wrote (#8) went on sale March 8th of 2017. Trump wasn't elected President until November of 2016 and wasn't sworn in to office until January 20, 2017. How far in advance of the sale dates was Jimenez handing in the scripts for the issues?

My interpretation is they wanted to appeal to Trump voters, which could easily go back to 2015 when Trump announced he was running for President.

[kingaliencracker]

As far as the topic at hand...I forgot there was a Superwoman book by Phil Jiminez to be honest. That's how far it escaped my mind. I would say the only aspect of the title that I can recall is the bait-and-switch with Lois & Lana. Otherwise I really don't remember any of it despite the fact that I'm pretty confident I read it.

[Rang10]

You can kind of piece together what happened based on interviews Johns & Didio have given separately about the subject.

Essentially they hit a wall with New 52/DCYou, which Didio acknowledges was due to not having long-term goals or plans with those initiatives. Whether Didio was forced to go to Johns or did so on his own, Johns was then tasked to "fix" things with his Rebirth special as well as that subsequent initiative. But Didio felt that Rebirth was a nostalgia-grab, not a long-term solution, and immediately sought to undermine it. That's why all of it, including Superwoman and the other Rebirth titles, fell apart a year or less later.

This seems like what happened for outsiders, rebirth never really delivered on what it promised. For insiders it was probably a very messy era.

[MajorHoy]

My interpretation is they wanted to appeal to Trump voters, which could easily go back to 2015 when Trump announced he was running for President.

But how many people took Trump seriously in 2015?

How many realized back in 2015/even early 2016 how numerous potential Trump voters were then?

[kingaliencracker]

But how many people took Trump seriously in 2015?

How many realized back in 2015/even early 2016 how numerous potential Trump voters were then?

The reality of him being president may have been a longshot at the time but the Trump movement was very real in 2015.

[Rang10]

The reality of him being president may have been a longshot at the time but the Trump movement was very real in 2015.

2016 Trup was coming strong, specially that he started winning and crushing the oher republicans nominees

so there was enough time to put a note to appeal to his voters