Phil Jimenez talks about his Superwoman book

[witchboy]

Surely killing Lois wasn't going to be something Jimenez had control of?
The whole appealing to Trump readers thing is shocking. What was he supposed to do, have Lana give speeches about the dangers of trans people in the military or have the villains be immigrants?

[Nelliebly]

Surely killing Lois wasn't going to be something Jimenez had control of?
The whole appealing to Trump readers thing is shocking. What was he supposed to do, have Lana give speeches about the dangers of trans people in the military or have the villains be immigrants?

As I recall, and it’s been a few years so forgive me if my memory isn’t super clear on details, Phil was pretty candid on Twitter at the time about how much was his idea. And be actively participated in the building it up as a Lois vehicle by playing into it with fans so I feel comfortable critiquing him even if he wasn’t running editorial. Phil did not handle it well and he lost a lot of goodwill with most of the Lois Lane fans I know who actually genuinely liked him prior to this mess.

The Trump stuff is reprehensible but not shocking to me, sadly.

[HsssH]

That Trump thing sounds weird. I don't remember any examples of DC appealing to Trump voters during Rebirth so I'm kinda wondering if he didn't make it up. After whole "its a book about Lois" thing I'm not very inclined to trust him.

[Celgress]

As I recall, and it’s been a few years so forgive me if my memory isn’t super clear on details, Phil was pretty candid on Twitter at the time about how much was his idea. And be actively participated in the building it up as a Lois vehicle by playing into it with fans so I feel comfortable critiquing him even if he wasn’t running editorial. Phil did not handle it well and he lost a lot of goodwill with most of the Lois Lane fans I know who actually genuinely liked him prior to this mess.

The Trump stuff is reprehensible but not shocking to me, sadly.

I've never heard this insider story before, do tell.

[MajorHoy]

That Trump thing sounds weird. I don't remember any examples of DC appealing to Trump voters during Rebirth so I'm kinda wondering if he didn't make it up. After whole "its a book about Lois" thing I'm not very inclined to trust him.

It could also be a case where DC never directly said anything about "we needed to appeal more to Trump voters" but that what DC did say later got interpreted by Jimenez that way.
And after all, Superwoman #1 went on sale in August 2016; the last issue he wrote (#8) went on sale March 8th of 2017. Trump wasn't elected President until November of 2016 and wasn't sworn in to office until January 20, 2017. How far in advance of the sale dates was Jimenez handing in the scripts for the issues?

[HsssH]

I guess it is possible that he had finished writing it before Trump was even elected?

[Sacred Knight]

Surely killing Lois wasn't going to be something Jimenez had control of?

I think it was. But at the same time, I also think there was more planned there than met the eye. Its worth remembering at the time she was no longer the main Lois. At this time we were still in essentially New 52 Lois's world, but for all intents and purposes the other Lois had taken over as the Lois Lane. So as the superfluous one they probably figured they could get away with this as a bait and switch. It just plays into how the status quo was so ridiculous and weird. But I've never been able to shake that it was all intended to play a larger role into the merger of realities, basically what would eventually evolve into Superman Reborn. I don't believe they ever seriously played with the idea of the Rebirth 1.0 status quo sticking.

That said, no hard feelings. He tried a bait and switch. Those can be risky regardless the circumstances. And in this case it backfired more than anything else. It didn't work and they moved on. I'd still trust Jimenez with just about any character I care about, especially females.

[SiegePerilous02]

That said, no hard feelings. He tried a bait and switch. Those can be risky regardless the circumstances. And in this case it backfired more than anything else. It didn't work and they moved on. I'd still trust Jimenez with just about any character I care about, especially females.

This is pretty much where I'm at with him. I did lose interest when it was revealed to not be about Lois, but you're right in that that weird status quo at the time made New 52 Lois superfluous. So maybe a bait and switch is insensitive, but at the same time it's not as if Lana ever gets much to do in comparison and it's not as if Jimenez would kill off Lois under any normal circumstances. The one off issue in his WW run, for example, was very good.

[Sacred Knight]

Yeah, I mean heck it bugged me at the time because I still had the faintest of hopes that maybe they'd continue with the New 52 characters elsewhere at some point, bringing back the New 52 Superman too. This was one of many signs early in Rebirth that they had intentions of doing absolutely no such thing, and that was rough on me. So that's an example of the bait and switch not working from another point of view. But I never took it as him ever being willing to really, no holds barred, kill off the numero uno Lois Lane in any normal circumstance.

[Hypo]

That Trump thing sounds weird. I don't remember any examples of DC appealing to Trump voters during Rebirth so I'm kinda wondering if he didn't make it up.

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[Superfamily]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh God this was the edition I liked least, it seemed too boring

[Robanker]

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I like the core idea of what they wanted to do but it really did come across like "Superman reaches across the aisle to the right wing."

I have military in my family and people on both sides of the political spectrum. Those who voluntarily serve prevent mandatory military conscription and for that I'm eternally grateful. But this had Clark strawmanning people who happen to be critical of the military industrial complex and that also feels tonedeaf to someone purported to be a man of the people. This was a hard reach back to an establishment Superman.

Yes, veterans are treated horribly in this country at times and truthfully never get the proper support to reintegrate into society and to unpack the trauma they accrue during their tours. That doesn't mean hating a system designed to break people and turn them into weapons to fight wars for profit isn't something to bring up. Clark and Lois would absolutely tell Jon that there's a lot more to the problem than what happened in the issues, and knowing this may have been editorially mandated does tell a lot.


All that said, Phil, you can't kill the advertised protagonist (who happens to be Lois Lane) in the first issue and not think the book is more likely to become radioactive than not. I have no doubts that he was aware it'd be controversial and that editorial was being awful behind the scenes, but opening with a move like that either blows up by issue 2 or signs your run's death warrant. That the book gets taken over by second stringers in the Superman family (I love Steel but it's been a while since he got a push), is female/BIPOC-lead and was going to tackle LGBTQ+ (the direct market's three historically least supported demographics) and this book was DoA without a killer hook. Lois Lane with superpowers free from her attachment to Superman may have been it, but killing her immediately burnt me as a reader. I like Lana and I love Steel, but goddamn, read the room man.

Do we know what his future plans were to be? I'm generally curious what arc he thought would pick up the steam that first issue lost.

[witchboy]

Hearing all this makes me glad I wasn't aware of what was going on behind the scenes at the time.

[HsssH]

Forgot about that thing entirely, figures that it was Tomasi. Asides of Damian and Super Sons he hasn't written anything good.

[Robanker]

Forgot about that thing entirely, figures that it was Tomasi. Asides of Damian and Super Sons he hasn't written anything good.

His run on Green Lantern Corps was really solid. Definitely made Guy a lot of people's favorite Lantern if not their second favorite.