Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[Vordan]

[Quinlan58]

Going by that trailer, it seems the next episode will be the introduction and resolution of a jealousy plot for Jon, with apparently only Jordan going to the Fortress with Clark, the shot contrasting him with his father and brother playing, and finally his and Clark's embrace. Jordan's "Everything you do is wrong" sounds like it has a different context from what may seem here (maybe it's related to how Clark is prioritizing Jordan too much and making Jon feel excluded? Or maybe Sam Lane's words got to him). More emphasis on Clark/Jordan and Lois/Jon duos. Looks like Luthor's ship is blowing up in this episode, too.

[Rac7d*]

So how long until the fire black writer scandal messes up this show
Like can DC ever get a break

[Stick Figure]

Cavill is still my favorite live action Superman but this was good. It’s my #2 version. I love the family man focus. I thought the effects were dramatically better than I expected. I hope they hold up throughout the series. Good show!! If it has a long run it could end up really being the definitive version for a while.

[Quinlan58]

Depends on whether they gave Lois storylines and included non-villanous black characters after Nadia spoke out.

[Nelliebly]

So how long until the fire black writer scandal messes up this show
Like can DC ever get a break

I don’t think Todd Helbing ::should:: get a break. I believe Nadria’s account.

Look. This is extremely complicated and anyone on either side of it trying to pretend it’s not is a liar. I believe Nadria. Even after viewing the pilot (which I did love) and seeing the footage coming up, it’s very clear that the concerns she raised are real problems.

This show is going to have to tread very, very carefully with a Black man as Lex Luthor and I said as much when he was cast. Not because Black people cant be villains—yes, of course they can. But this is the kind of casting that requires a LOT of careful sensitivity to avoid a truly offensive white savior storyline and it doesn’t sound like Todd Helbing took that anywhere near as seriously as he should have. And, unfortunately, the man does not have the best track record given Candice Patton and Jesse L Martin have been forthcoming regarding the issues that took place with Todd on The Flash. I believe Candice and Jesse and I believe Nadria. These showrunners were not remotely prepared to have real conversations about what representation actually means.

Additionally, Nadria went into more detail last night on Twitter regarding the way she tried to go to bat for Lois Lane and none of it paints Helbing or Berlanti in a good light. Nadria’s account is that it was becoming very clear to her and to other female writers that Lois was being underserved and that she was often being cast off as not an equal priority but that when she tried to do something about it she was ignored and then fired. Guys, that is a serious accusation. It’s 2021. This is not ok behavior anymore. It never was but now—given what we know—it’s unacceptable, ok? You can’t just call a show “Superman and Lois” to try to appeal to women as a demo or for the allusion of representation in a still very male heavy genre but then only do it in name only.

Now. Is this complicated? Yeah. It is. Because there are other Black writers and women in that room. Jai Jamison has been vocal about what getting a voice on this show means to him. He apparently wrote episode 7 which David Ramsey is coming in to direct. There are innocent crew members who have been killing themselves round the clock in a PANDEMIC to make this show what it is. And the cast is doing their jobs. So, yeah complex. Because there are a lot of innocent, hard working people here from the crew to the cast to the other writers who are now put in this extremely crappy position. But you know what? Nadria didn’t put them there, guys. Todd Helbing did. Todd’s behavior is what has created this extremely complicated problem with a lot of innocent people caught in the middle.

Todd Helbing and Berlanti have to address this. Period. This will not just go away nor should it. The show was very well received last night but the problems Nadria flagged were absolutely visible and they will blister and break throughout the season if this is not fixed immediately. And they need to reach out to Nadria and apologize to her or make peace. They need to own up for their mistakes.

Do I agree with the fans who were dead set on hating this show (from some of the Snyder fans to the supergirl favs etc) now using Nadria as a prop to just try and act like the show should be canceled? No. I don’t. Because I don’t agree with fandoms using real social issues as part of some kind of immature pissing contest so their “side” can win by appearing the most woke. Not when literally all this media has problems and there are real people involved. That’s disingenuous as well. But this absolutely has to be addressed by WB or it’s going to blow up in their faces.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I didn't see that - the the MK vs DC game.

nah that was definitely injustice 2, they had Mortal Kombat characters as dlc fighters.

[Nelliebly]

I said a lot already above regarding the controversy surrounding the show and Nadria Tucker’s dismissal and I stand by that and I truly hope you all consider what I said.

My feelings on the pilot generally are:

I loved a lot about it. I’ve always thought Tyler was a great Clark/Superman so it was no surprise to me how truly great he was last night. I think it’s safe to say that he is going to go down as one of the best ever in the role. I’m comfortable saying that. He’s fantastic on every level. I also think he was more than convincing as a Father. I know there has been some concerns about that but I felt he did an amazing job. I felt that paternal connection to those kids. He said he’s been drawing on his relationship with his nephews and nieces and whatever he did....it worked. Keep it up.

Elizabeth Tulloch is great as Lois with the limited amount they gave her to do. Yes, she will apparently be getting her own villain in Morgan Edge and her role as investigating journalist will be preserved but I think the concern for Lois’s treatment goes far beyond just giving her journalist work to do.

EW did a recap today basically saying that Clark appears to be having a midlife crisis and that it seemed pretty out of character for Lois to just agree to move their kids to a very small town just because he wants to. And I agree. The problem with how they are using Lois is she has no interior life. We don’t get her POV, her emotions or her feelings. That’s a problem. Because if we are going to explore Clark’s interior drama and emotional relationships we should be seeing hers too. My concern is that, much like when Peter tomasi was on the books, the showrunner thinks that plot equals character. So Lois would get one moment being “badass” in the Hellbat suit and everyone would cheer like “see Lois got to do something” when that’s all a ruse because that’s not actual representation. For Lois to truly be treated equally on this show her role can’t just be “supportive wife and mom” who “goes off and chases Morgan edge for 15 minutes every episode.” We need to know how she FEELS or this is all a pointless exercise. And that concerns me with this showrunner because that requires a commitment to actually telling women’s stories and not just trying to score “feminist” points with one liners or plot. I think they are going to have to tread very, very carefully here particularly given Lana has been rewritten yet AGAIN by these men with yet another sad story tragedy. Lois can’t just be the “together one” all the time with no struggles of her own. That’s not fair. It’s also a waste of Elizabeth Tulloch who has sort of a Katherine Hepburn “I don’t give a **** but also, umm, I have feelings if you would ask” vibe to her that should be used.

The sons were actually pretty great to me. I liked the way they got along with each other. The drama with Lana’s daughter doesn’t really interest me but I’m also not the demo for that. I can’t fault younger viewers having a way in.

All in all, there was a lot to love here but the problems highlighted above combined with the issues I already outlined regarding Nadria Tucker are going to make or break this series. Let’s hope they are addressed.

[Vordan]

So how long until the fire black writer scandal messes up this show
Like can DC ever get a break

Relax. The reception so far is overwhelmingly positive. There are always problems and people complaining, but the show has been the most positively received piece of Superman content since Smallville.

[superduperman]

My concern is that there are too many characters to give everyone proper attention every episode. So some characters will just have to be left out sometimes. They've never done a series where he has kids before so it will be hard to maintain everyone in every episode. This is new territory. The big bad of the season will have to take precedence over everything else in the grand scheme of things.

[manwhohaseverything]

My concern is that there are too many characters to give everyone proper attention every episode. So some characters will just have to be left out sometimes. They've never done a series where he has kids before so it will be hard to maintain everyone in every episode. This is new territory. The big bad of the season will have to take precedence over everything else in the grand scheme of things.

smallville had clark,lana,cloe and pete.this has clark,lois,jojo brothers.

[Alpha]

I said a lot already above regarding the controversy surrounding the show and Nadria Tucker’s dismissal and I stand by that and I truly hope you all consider what I said.

My feelings on the pilot generally are:

I loved a lot about it. I’ve always thought Tyler was a great Clark/Superman so it was no surprise to me how truly great he was last night. I think it’s safe to say that he is going to go down as one of the best ever in the role. I’m comfortable saying that. He’s fantastic on every level. I also think he was more than convincing as a Father. I know there has been some concerns about that but I felt he did an amazing job. I felt that paternal connection to those kids. He said he’s been drawing on his relationship with his nephews and nieces and whatever he did....it worked. Keep it up.

Elizabeth Tulloch is great as Lois with the limited amount they gave her to do. Yes, she will apparently be getting her own villain in Morgan Edge and her role as investigating journalist will be preserved but I think the concern for Lois’s treatment goes far beyond just giving her journalist work to do.

EW did a recap today basically saying that Clark appears to be having a midlife crisis and that it seemed pretty out of character for Lois to just agree to move their kids to a very small town just because he wants to. And I agree. The problem with how they are using Lois is she has no interior life. We don’t get her POV, her emotions or her feelings. That’s a problem. Because if we are going to explore Clark’s interior drama and emotional relationships we should be seeing hers too. My concern is that, much like when Peter tomasi was on the books, the showrunner thinks that plot equals character. So Lois would get one moment being “badass” in the Hellbat suit and everyone would cheer like “see Lois got to do something” when that’s all a ruse because that’s not actual representation. For Lois to truly be treated equally on this show her role can’t just be “supportive wife and mom” who “goes off and chases Morgan edge for 15 minutes every episode.” We need to know how she FEELS or this is all a pointless exercise. And that concerns me with this showrunner because that requires a commitment to actually telling women’s stories and not just trying to score “feminist” points with one liners or plot. I think they are going to have to tread very, very carefully here particularly given Lana has been rewritten yet AGAIN by these men with yet another sad story tragedy. Lois can’t just be the “together one” all the time with no struggles of her own. That’s not fair. It’s also a waste of Elizabeth Tulloch who has sort of a Katherine Hepburn “I don’t give a **** but also, umm, I have feelings if you would ask” vibe to her that should be used.

The sons were actually pretty great to me. I liked the way they got along with each other. The drama with Lana’s daughter doesn’t really interest me but I’m also not the demo for that. I can’t fault younger viewers having a way in.

All in all, there was a lot to love here but the problems highlighted above combined with the issues I already outlined regarding Nadria Tucker are going to make or break this series. Let’s hope they are addressed.

I just want to add one thing to what you said. While showing what Lois feels is important, it is also not enough. We need her to actually be an active shaper of the plot in her autonomous way. Sometimes that means her being supportive, sometimes it means him being supportive of her, sometimes it means the two of them having a conflict because their own journeys are leading them in places where they have a hard time with each other. Like what if that whole plot with the villain Clark is fighting ends up being the subplot for the season and at the end when Clark finally deals all of it we find out that Morgan Edge really has been a much bigger threat to the world in general and the tougher choice is how to deal with someone whose place in the world is so critical that despite all of the abusive plans he has, you would create giant blackhole if you took him out of the equation.

I really hope we get to see how mal adjusted Lois is to living in a small town. She has always felt to me like a city girl that loves living in a city.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I thought it was a fun pilot and curious if they could keep up the momentum. I saw it more as Superman and Lois on alternate earth than a sequel to Supergirl. But I could be wrong.

[rpmaluki]

I just want to add one thing to what you said. While showing what Lois feels is important, it is also not enough. We need her to actually be an active shaper of the plot in her autonomous way. Sometimes that means her being supportive, sometimes it means him being supportive of her, sometimes it means the two of them having a conflict because their own journeys are leading them in places where they have a hard time with each other. Like what if that whole plot with the villain Clark is fighting ends up being the subplot for the season and at the end when Clark finally deals all of it we find out that Morgan Edge really has been a much bigger threat to the world in general and the tougher choice is how to deal with someone whose place in the world is so critical that despite all of the abusive plans he has, you would create giant blackhole if you took him out of the equation.

I really hope we get to see how mal adjusted Lois is to living in a small town. She has always felt to me like a city girl that loves living in a city.

I think I may have read an article in the past few days where the showrunner hinted at connecting Superman's villain (Captain Luthor) and Lois' (Morgan Edge) I just can't remember where. It makes sense to clead both Clark and Lois to a singular climax of the story that deals with both, how, remains to be seen.

[Nelliebly]

I think I may have read an article in the past few days where the showrunner hinted at connecting Superman's villain (Captain Luthor) and Lois' (Morgan Edge) I just can't remember where. It makes sense to clead both Clark and Lois to a singular climax of the story that deals with both, how, remains to be seen.

It very well might. It just doesn’t really solve the problem.

Lois debuted on Smallville as a GUEST STAR on Smallville with “Crusade” in 2004 and we learned more about her family life, perspective, likes, dislikes and overall conflict in that one episode where she was just a guest star than one a pilot for a show with her name in the title.

Forget Lois and Clark (which also did a lot to show her POV in the pilot) but SMALLVILLE showed up Superman and Lois with how they introduced Lois 16 years ago on a show where she was just a guest star.

That’s damning. Bc it’s very revealing at where Todd Helbing’s priorities are and I’m already seeing recaps not written by fanboys who just want to geek out about the Fleishcer suit (which was admittedly cool) pick up on this. So I truly hope plans have been put into place to fix it even if it means some rewrites.