Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[Vakanai]

It was just ok for me. But there are some elements that I liked, so I'll stick around for another couple of episodes and give it a chance.

Same - everyone is going on about how "great" it was, which I guess just shows how desperate some of us are for decent Superman material right now. I thought it was just fine. Alright enough for me to continue watching, but I have no real "excitement" after that pilot.

[Alpha]

The ratings for episode one were good but lower than the pilots of every other Arrowverse show and I am confused. More people are watching the freaking Walker Texas Ranger reboot. How is a new Superman with a bigger budget than other CW shows not breaking records.

Some people are saying it's because of HBO MAX. Some people might've watched it there instead. It might still have better ratings than the rest. I also expect this to be able to keep the ratings a lot more than those other shows. This is the best pilot on Arrowverse (well I haven't watched Black Lightning so can't comment on that one)

[Vordan]

I thought the show went to HBO Max once the season wrapped, do the episodes end up on Max the day after they air?

[Alpha]

Same - everyone is going on about how "great" it was, which I guess just shows how desperate some of us are for decent Superman material right now. I thought it was just fine. Alright enough for me to continue watching, but I have no real "excitement" after that pilot.

I guess everyone likes different stuff, but I actually went back and rewatched the episode a couple of times. Just love the family dynamics and how nearly all of it is filmed. The only weak moment for me was when Lana's daughter had that awkward line about Lana checking out Clark on Facebook, and the dialogue in space between Clark and the Villain. I personally genuinely enjoyed the episode a lot and am excited for a whole lot more.

When this was announced I had no interest in another show about Superman with the tone of Arrowverse. Now looking back, it's amazing how different it is from what I expected.

[Vordan]

Same - everyone is going on about how "great" it was, which I guess just shows how desperate some of us are for decent Superman material right now. I thought it was just fine. Alright enough for me to continue watching, but I have no real "excitement" after that pilot.

You dislike Superdad though so that’s kind of an insurmountable barrier given this show’s focus. Others love that aspect so that’s why they might be more excited.

[Alpha]

I thought the show went to HBO Max once the season wrapped, do the episodes end up on Max the day after they air?

Nevermimd, you are right. When people were talking about streaming I assumed they meant HBO MAX but it was probably the CW app. Doubt those numbers would go up a lot based on the app, so my original statement is probably all wrong. I still think this show has more staying power than others, and it's numbers might average out higher than other shows as the season goes on.

[manwhohaseverything]

I'm guessing the "newfound status" he's going to join Jon's football team. Which I could see being the bridge too far.

Yeah! that's going to be a problem.I don't think Jon is gonna like that.That will create tension for sure.

Called it, I knew Jon was going to get resentful of Jordan.

It says mixed emotions.

[Vordan]

Nevermimd, you are right. When people were talking about streaming I assumed they meant HBO MAX but it was probably the CW app. Doubt those numbers would go up a lot based on the app, so my original statement is probably all wrong. I still think this show has more staying power than others, and it's numbers might average out higher than other shows as the season goes on.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot more people checked out the show through the app, or are planning on binge watching it once it hits HBO Max.

[Vakanai]

I guess everyone likes different stuff, but I actually went back and rewatched the episode a couple of times. Just love the family dynamics and how nearly all of it is filmed. The only weak moment for me was when Lana's daughter had that awkward line about Lana checking out Clark on Facebook, and the dialogue in space between Clark and the Villain. I personally genuinely enjoyed the episode a lot and am excited for a whole lot more.

When this was announced I had no interest in another show about Superman with the tone of Arrowverse. Now looking back, it's amazing how different it is from what I expected.

True. And if this is what you like, it'll be better. Thing is the Superman franchise has been sort of fractured. Some of us are winning out over others - I just happen to be in the group losing out...

You dislike Superdad though so that’s kind of an insurmountable barrier given this show’s focus. Others love that aspect so that’s why they might be more excited.

True. The bits focused on the kids lost my interest largely. They do nothing for me but delay what I want to see. But that doesn't mean there aren't objective faults though.

[9th.]

It's nice to Lois dad isn't a raging anti-alien maniac in this

[Vordan]

It's nice to Lois dad isn't a raging anti-alien maniac in this

As someone who didn’t really know Sam Lane until Johns it’s weird as hell for me whenever he’s not a raging xenophobe

[Robanker]

So I've finally gotten a chance to watch Superman & Lois, and while I'm going to go into more details, I'll get the broad strokes out of the way: I really dug it. My girlfriend enjoyed it a lot too and wanted to keep watching and she's been so burnt by comics she all but ignores a lot of comic adaptions. She loved how wholesome Reeve was in the Donner film and Tyler won her over too. It was genuinely great to see my girlfriend get the Superman she enjoys back, and no matter what nitpicks I have, I'm so glad for that.

First and foremost, the cast. Of the main players, everyone is good with what they're given.

Getting it out of the way, Tyler's great. He plays off each relationship very well and portrays a pretty rounded Clark. We see him with family, friends, his wife, and his easy/problem child. Each is unique and each relationship works with Tyler having natural chemistry with everyone. He finds a way to straddle that line of earnest and corny that rings true to when Clark is being particularly idealistic. The only time I recall him kind of failing me was the scene where he reveals his secret identity to his sons, but it's more how clunky the script was than Tyler. He just abruptly cuts into it and there's not much he could have done to make it feel natural. The script set him up. Only other complaint I have... is the padding in his suit. At most angles, it looks fine, but when filmed straight-on, his shoulders are just too wide for his body and his head/neck look abnormally tiny. Doesn't work. A slimmer suit would help Tyler... And goddamn if the Flesicher suit wasn't rad in live action. He should just keep wearing it! The modern suit works just fine, but it has the same problem insofar as he's just too wide when filmed directly. They should avoid using that angle when he's in the suit.

Jordan. His actor did well with what he was given, even if he got on my nerves a bit ("he wasn't there for me, he was busy saving entire cities!") Naturally, it's justified. He's a teen with issues who just found out his dad lied to him. It works. What didn't work is how after his dad apologizes, he stops being a moody teen and is seemingly totally cool with Superman now. It's like he jumped his arc. I'm not sure if that's going to continue, but for what it's worth, I'm glad they aren't just having him outright make his heel turn from the get go if he's even going to have one.

Jonathan. Underwritten, but his actor has a lot of charisma. Jonathan doesn't get much to do but be a brother who argues with Jordan but loves him and is otherwise the good, easy son. He's just there for contrast, but as with everyone thus far, his actor has been able to elevate the material he's given. He has particularly great chemistry with his brother and father, both of which he plays off of naturally.

Bored hit on Jordan and Jonathan essentially being similar in spirit to a more Morrison/Snyder and Post Crisis Clark respectively and I can see it. Everything is complicated for Jordan, everything seemingly comes easy for Jonathan. Neither is particularly unlikable by the end even if the former can be a bit prickly and the latter lacks depth if being inoffensively decent.

Here's where I want to scream. Lois Lane. Tulloch is great with what she's given and, frankly, that's not much. She's got the setup for a good arc and we can see her marriage to Clark has made her a bit more idealistic than a traditional Lois (she doesn't cringe at the concept of human interest puff pieces, which I'd argue a younger, hungrier Lois Lane would see as wasting her time or trying to silence her acerbic wit) and she clashes with her husband in all the right ways. She and Tyler have a good relationship especially, often butting heads and never once coming across as dysfunctional; this is a Lois and Clark who are strong together and unafraid to speak their mind without worry it'd damage their marriage. They're a team, which is highlighted well when Sam Lane comes to recruit Clark for a mission.

So why did I save her for last when she's the co-lead? Well, because as of the pilot, this is Superman, not Superman and Lois. Jordan was the other protagonist, not Lois. She got a lot of groundwork put down to develop further (and an arc villain in Morgan Edge), but goddamn if she mostly was there to be a mom and put her career on hold (granted it's to help her special needs child and provide moral support for her husband going through a mid-life crisis following the death of his sole surviving parent). Honestly? That's the best reason for her to do so, but I also won't pretend the script wasn't manufactured to sideline her this episode. This is fine later in the season for an episode (just like Clark can get sidelined for her to star in one), but not the pilot. She just kind of spins plates, and most the parenting is done by Clark so her relationship to her sons is mostly absent. I want more from Lois Lane, and that's on the writing. Tulloch works everything she's given and she manages to do a good enough job selling Lois essentially... surrendering being Lois Lane, world's best reporter.

They do a good job establishing why, even if it's said about Superman:

"The world will always need Superman (and Lois Lane), but right now this family needs him (and her) more."

They're going through a very rough patch and need to pull together. If they remain in Smallville past this season, I'm honestly not happy. They need to get back to Metropolis with the farm either being sold, given to Lana who leaves her awful husband, or simply given to the farmer who had to sell because times are tough. Lois is handicapped being so far away from the city beat where she thrives, and Superman doesn't feel right when he's too far from the City of Tomorrow.


The special effects are great. A cut above what I expect from television, and most the Superman feats were fun to watch. I shouted "he's going to Superman III the reactor" eliciting a groan from my partner, but it was fun to see and Tyler sells it. The sole exception, sadly, is the Doom Slayer fight. The fight pulls in too close and just feels a bit too much like a video game cutscene, lacking weight. The voice over from our antagonist was dispassionate and dull given he's actually fighting Superman, and Clark taking green K to the chest should be more impactful even if I'm glad he was able to dig it out. That whole sequence didn't match the quality of the show before or after, so it just felt like the Supergirl team took over for a minute.

Lana and her family are another point of concern. The way they shot her arrival is very much "guy sees the girl of his dreams" even though she's Clark's ex and it got me to say "aww #$&@ ass no" when it happened, compounded by her daughter confirming she's still got a bit of a thing for Clark, but thankfully it appeared to be a bait and switch and is never really touched on again. I'm done to death with Lana pining for Clark as an adult, though if she's in a failing marriage I can see her longing for the one who got away, or really anything/one else. Kyle sucks, but he's supposed to. The one humanizing moment we get of him is more about Clark being a genuinely good person to people he probably doesn't like and says more about our protagonist than anything else. It works, but as of now Kyle is just a one-dimensional foil for Clark and seemingly there to potentially add some tension to the marriage if ratings dip and the showrunners think it'll spice the show up. That will be the episode I drop the show. Lana herself was likable and shared that small-town charm Clark's generation seems to have. She feels like she comes from the idyllic world he was raised in and one of the last vestiges of Smallville as we remember it. This works for the show. Contrasting Clark, who is always idyllic Smallville, Lana who is its last gasp struggling for air, and the kids which are dealing with the death of small town America (complete with meth lab fires, Jesus) works on a lot of levels (like contrasting Lois, Clark and Lana with respect to city, adaptable and small-town life).

Then there's her daughter. Like Jordan, she's complicated. That's good. I like her fine, but overall she seems to mostly be used to either define Jordan or provide precious teenage drama plots. I'm a bit worried that she has little else going on. Like her mother and Lois, so far each of the women in the show satellite around a male character. It makes sense for Lois and Clark to be in each other's orbit, but I'm concerned about Lana and her daughter.

Sam Lane is probably the place I want to wrap. He's fine, and not a complete dick (yet?) but I really cannot stand how Clark seems buddy-buddy with a military official. This really feels awful. My headcanon until otherwise is it's more because that's his father-in-law than because he's some patriot following the government's direction. I really don't like Clark working that closely with a government. It just doesn't sit well with him being the people's champion. Sam is probably going to be a seasonal antagonist for the couple whereas Captain Luthor/Edge are Clark/Lois's foes respectively.

Overall, I had a great time even with my reservations. It's nice to see Superman done earnestly, even if it's essentially with a gimmick (being a family man). I want to see more for Lois (and Jonathan), but the tone of the show trends toward the positive and is more about watching a family overcome adversity while trying to improve their community as opposed to "WILL YA BOY DIE OR TURN EVIL? TUNE IN!" Granted they banked the trailer on "WILL HIS BOY TURN EVIL," but at least the pilot pointed towards "no, but they're going to struggle at times even if it'll work out in the end."

It's a solid show and has real potential. I'm glad that the CW-HBO joint venture pulled through and brought quality Superman back to the small screen. Been far too long. Sorry for the novel.

[Vordan]

I forgot I was supposed to write up my thoughts in a longer post so I’ll just appropriate Robanker’s and say he basically nails how I felt watching this. Solid write up.

You guys think there’s any chance John Henry Irons could show up in this? I was reminded in another thread that he hasn’t shown up in live action since the Shaq film and I kinda hope they rectify that. He’s the one character who would actually work as tech support/backup for Clark, and given the nature of his tech, you wouldn’t need much to justify him showing up. I wish they were using him instead of Sam Lane here.

[Robanker]

I forgot I was supposed to write up my thoughts in a longer post so I’ll just appropriate Robanker’s and say he basically nails how I felt watching this. Solid write up.

You guys think there’s any chance John Henry Irons could show up in this? I was reminded in another thread that he hasn’t shown up in live action since the Shaq film and I kinda hope they rectify that. He’s the one character who would actually work as tech support/backup for Clark, and given the nature of his tech, you wouldn’t need much to justify him showing up. I wish they were using him instead of Sam Lane here.

If Steel isn't a major player by a prospective third season, that's a shame. I understand he and Natasha would eat up a lot of budget, so I'm okay with John only suiting up sometimes and being a mentor to his niece. A big part of the show is about the next generation so they'd play into the show nicely.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

By the way, my wife also watched it and has reversed course on her first impression of Tyler Hoechlin

She's hooked.