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  1. #316
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Sure, but I think she trusts her colleagues to tell those stories.
    But one can always catch her eye .
    There were people like Kyle at my mother's funeral. There's no excuse. You don't have to pop some gum or chewing tobacco when you're paying your respects. He's a selfish ass. It's not like he stepped out for a smoke and Clark went to talk to him. He came to their table and acted like an asshole. Fuck Kyle.
    That's fair. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

  2. #317
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But one can always catch her eye .

    That's fair. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
    Hard not to even in a suit one size too large.

  3. #318
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    This should be move to HBO Max. Make it 12 or 10 episodes and increase the budget.
    Itís already going straight there once the season wraps. Berlanti is still working on some HBO Max shows last I heard, itís not impossible that some of the CW superhero shows will move there once Green Lantern and Strange Adventures debut. But there is a benefit to it being on CW: Less chance of cancellation.
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  4. #319
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It’s already going straight there once the season wraps. Berlanti is still working on some HBO Max shows last I heard, it’s not impossible that some of the CW superhero shows will move there once Green Lantern and Strange Adventures debut. But there is a benefit to it being on CW: Less chance of cancellation.
    Wait why would it be cancelled there?

  5. #320
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Wait why would it be cancelled there?
    Less chance. Being on network television promises more viewers and has the CW footing some cost of production.

  6. #321
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Just found this, and CW should definitely do it, at least for one episose:


  7. #322
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Less chance. Being on network television promises more viewers and has the CW footing some cost of production.
    Doesn't HBO Max have like 40 million subscribers now? Godzilla and Kong will bring more

  8. #323
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Doesn't HBO Max have like 40 million subscribers now? Godzilla and Kong will bring more
    Yeah, but with the CW you get both. I think HBO should get it weekly too, though. Maybe a few days later so you have to see it on the CW if you want it live. Seems fair.

  9. #324
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Wait why would it be cancelled there?
    CW has a very high tolerance for shows. Look at Batwoman, I think it’s already below 500k viewers which would get it cancelled pretty quickly anywhere else. But the CW renewed it for S3. S&L being on the CW hopefully means it will get to go for as long as the showrunners want it to.
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  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    By the way, my wife also watched it and has reversed course on her first impression of Tyler Hoechlin

    She's hooked.
    Itís not charitable to say I told you so but.....I told you so.

  11. #326
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Just found this, and CW should definitely do it, at least for one episose:

    Thanks for sharing! Looks cool!
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  12. #327
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    I think, again (and I don’t want to speak for the guys here) but it’s not just about driving plot.

    I thought Bitsie was AMAZING in the pilot and did a lot with what she was given. But she didn’t get much POV. Lois and Clark’s relationship is already amazing in this show but that’s reality because of the intimacy of the actors—which to be fair is significant—and not because of the writing they gave her. Why did she agree so easily to move? Or, even better, why not let it be her idea to start with? How did she feel all those years asking Clark to be open with their kids but him refusing to do so?

    All of these things might be explored but there was room to explore some of them in the pilot naturally and it’s concerning that the showrunner —who again has been called out repeatedly from within his own writing room AND by previous cast members from The Flash—for sexism —didn’t see fit to give them to her. The concern with Todd Helbing and some of the other men creating this show isn’t about plot—it’s concern that they aren’t willing or able to get into Lois’s head. I know it’s hard to talk about this with some of you here because I know some of you think that plot = equality but it doesn’t.

    It’s not just about plot. That’s part one. It’s about being emotionally connected in a substantial way to her family and having feelings and emotions from her Pov. It’s about her husband and children checking on HER to see how SHE feels. Will Clark support her in the same way she supports him in this pilot? Will she gets episodes where she gets to be upset and down and struggle and he stands there and comforts HER? Will she get held in comfort the same way she held him at the funeral? Just chasing stories is not going to correct this problem. Again, plot does not necessarily = equality. Time will tell!
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 02-27-2021 at 07:31 PM.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Sure, but I think she trusts her colleagues to tell those stories.

    That's fair, but it's not particularly engaging.

    There were people like Kyle at my mother's funeral. There's no excuse. You don't have to pop some gum or chewing tobacco when you're paying your respects. He's a selfish ass. It's not like he stepped out for a smoke and Clark went to talk to him. He came to their table and acted like an asshole. Fuck Kyle.
    Agreed. He was sitting at Clarkís kitchen table literally right after his motherís funeral. You donít talk to someone like that and you definitely donít treat their wife that way. Frankly, both Clark and Lois were too kind to him given the circumstances.

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    So I've finally gotten a chance to watch Superman & Lois, and while I'm going to go into more details, I'll get the broad strokes out of the way: I really dug it. My girlfriend enjoyed it a lot too and wanted to keep watching and she's been so burnt by comics she all but ignores a lot of comic adaptions. She loved how wholesome Reeve was in the Donner film and Tyler won her over too. It was genuinely great to see my girlfriend get the Superman she enjoys back, and no matter what nitpicks I have, I'm so glad for that.

    First and foremost, the cast.

    Lana and her family are another point of concern. The way they shot her arrival is very much "guy sees the girl of his dreams" even though she's Clark's ex and it got me to say "aww #$&@ ass no" when it happened, compounded by her daughter confirming she's still got a bit of a thing for Clark, but thankfully it appeared to be a bait and switch and is never really touched on again. I'm done to death with Lana pining for Clark as an adult, though if she's in a failing marriage I can see her longing for the one who got away, or really anything/one else. Kyle sucks, but he's supposed to. The one humanizing moment we get of him is more about Clark being a genuinely good person to people he probably doesn't like and says more about our protagonist than anything else. It works, but as of now Kyle is just a one-dimensional foil for Clark and seemingly there to potentially add some tension to the marriage if ratings dip and the showrunners think it'll spice the show up. That will be the episode I drop the show. Lana herself was likable and shared that small-town charm Clark's generation seems to have. She feels like she comes from the idyllic world he was raised in and one of the last vestiges of Smallville as we remember it. This works for the show. Contrasting Clark, who is always idyllic Smallville, Lana who is its last gasp struggling for air, and the kids which are dealing with the death of small town America (complete with meth lab fires, Jesus) works on a lot of levels (like contrasting Lois, Clark and Lana with respect to city, adaptable and small-town life).

    Then there's her daughter. Like Jordan, she's complicated. That's good. I like her fine, but overall she seems to mostly be used to either define Jordan or provide precious teenage drama plots. I'm a bit worried that she has little else going on. Like her mother and Lois, so far each of the women in the show satellite around a male character. It makes sense for Lois and Clark to be in each other's orbit, but I'm concerned about Lana and her daughter.

    Sam Lane is probably the place I want to wrap. He's fine, and not a complete dick (yet?) but I really cannot stand how Clark seems buddy-buddy with a military official. This really feels awful. My headcanon until otherwise is it's more because that's his father-in-law than because he's some patriot following the government's direction. I really don't like Clark working that closely with a government. It just doesn't sit well with him being the people's champion. Sam is probably going to be a seasonal antagonist for the couple whereas Captain Luthor/Edge are Clark/Lois's foes respectively.

    Overall, I had a great time even with my reservations. It's nice to see Superman done earnestly, even if it's essentially with a gimmick (being a family man). I want to see more for Lois (and Jonathan), but the tone of the show trends toward the positive and is more about watching a family overcome adversity while trying to improve their community as opposed to "WILL YA BOY DIE OR TURN EVIL? TUNE IN!" Granted they banked the trailer on "WILL HIS BOY TURN EVIL," but at least the pilot pointed towards "no, but they're going to struggle at times even if it'll work out in the end."

    It's a solid show and has real potential. I'm glad that the CW-HBO joint venture pulled through and brought quality Superman back to the small screen. Been far too long. Sorry for the novel.

    You know already that I agree with so much of your review . But can I just say....I didn’t have a problem with Lana’s intro here. Does that shock you?

    I think it’s because I actually had read the leaked pilot script and in the script her intro was way, way worse and completely inappropriate. To the point that, if I had to guess, someone at WB told them it had to be changed. There was a LOT of backlash after Fandome over on Twitter regarding some comments that Todd Helbing made about Lana. Then, when Nadria Tucker started giving interviews, some of the interviews specifically mentioned that they had felt uncomfortable with Lana being part of this show and it was RIGHT there alongside Nadria’s allegations of sexism in that writer’s room. We will never know what went down but something changed with Lana. Because her intro in the pilot was really muted to me. Maybe it was the way Tyler played it? He didn’t play it romantic in the slightest. It really just felt like seeing an old friend at a funeral and the emotions that go along with that. Then, later, they show his super hearing picks up General Lane approaching too so it definitely just felt like he keys into familiar voices. They also shot the scene so that it became more about Jordan looking at Sarah.

    Listen, I’m still concerned about her being part of the show. I definitely do not trust Todd Helbing. Women are not his strong suit and between some of the BS he pulled over on Flash (Patty spivot??) and the allegations from that writers room...I don’t trust him at all not to do something offensive. But I do think someone may have toned it way down in that writer’s room. I think they heard the backlash.

    As far adult Lana still crushing on Clark......I don’t want that for her either and I truly hope that’s not the direction they are going. I do fear that setting her up in a failing/sad marriage is an excuse for her to look at Clark and long for him/idealize him etc. I guess we just have to hope that these writers have more respect for her —and for Lois—than that. It’s a terrible spot to put Lois in because she would have ever reason to be frustrated but fandom will crucify her if she expresses anger over another woman wanting her husband—we’ve been down this road before. I guess we have to wait and see.

    Oh and re: your convo about human interest pieces for Lois. Keep in mind that when Lois was introduced there was a gender stigma attached to that “kind of work.” It’s why she complains about having to “write sob stories” in the Golden Age. Not bc she just didn’t care but because it was specifically a woman’s job to do it. I do think it’s important to not forgot that piece if/when you discuss her early career where she doesn’t always want those assignments. It’s not necessarily just that she doesn’t see the value or ability to make change at first—it’s also because that kind of story telling was a woman’s designated job and she didn’t want that job. It’s like a woman saying she would rather be a Doctor vs. a nurse. Nurses are the backbone of our medical system and I think we can all agree they make or break a healthcare experience. It’s also a job that, for literally centuries, was designated as women’s work. Just my take.

  15. #330
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    You know already that I agree with so much of your review . But can I just say....I didn’t have a problem with Lana’s intro here. Does that shock you?

    I think it’s because I actually had read the leaked pilot script and in the script her intro was way, way worse and completely inappropriate. To the point that, if I had to guess, someone at WB told them it had to be changed. There was a LOT of backlash after Fandome over on Twitter regarding some comments that Todd Helbing made about Lana. Then, when Nadria Tucker started giving interviews, some of the interviews specifically mentioned that they had felt uncomfortable with Lana being part of this show and it was RIGHT there alongside Nadria’s allegations of sexism in that writer’s room. We will never know what went down but something changed with Lana. Because her intro in the pilot was really muted to me. Maybe it was the way Tyler played it? He didn’t play it romantic in the slightest. It really just felt like seeing an old friend at a funeral and the emotions that go along with that. Then, later, they show his super hearing picks up General Lane approaching too so it definitely just felt like he keys into familiar voices. They also shot the scene so that it became more about Jordan looking at Sarah.

    Listen, I’m still concerned about her being part of the show. I definitely do not trust Todd Helbing. Women are not his strong suit and between some of the BS he pulled over on Flash (Patty spivot??) and the allegations from that writers room...I don’t trust him at all not to do something offensive. But I do think someone may have toned it way down in that writer’s room. I think they heard the backlash.

    As far adult Lana still crushing on Clark......I don’t want that for her either and I truly hope that’s not the direction they are going. I do fear that setting her up in a failing/sad marriage is an excuse for her to look at Clark and long for him/idealize him etc. I guess we just have to hope that these writers have more respect for her —and for Lois—than that. It’s a terrible spot to put Lois in because she would have ever reason to be frustrated but fandom will crucify her if she expresses anger over another woman wanting her husband—we’ve been down this road before. I guess we have to wait and see.

    Oh and re: your convo about human interest pieces for Lois. Keep in mind that when Lois was introduced there was a gender stigma attached to that “kind of work.” It’s why she complains about having to “write sob stories” in the Golden Age. Not bc she just didn’t care but because it was specifically a woman’s job to do it. I do think it’s important to not forgot that piece if/when you discuss her early career where she doesn’t always want those assignments. It’s not necessarily just that she doesn’t see the value or ability to make change at first—it’s also because that kind of story telling was a woman’s designated job and she didn’t want that job. It’s like a woman saying she would rather be a Doctor vs. a nurse. Nurses are the backbone of our medical system and I think we can all agree they make or break a healthcare experience. It’s also a job that, for literally centuries, was designated as women’s work. Just my take.
    It doesn't, actually! It didn't really go anywhere, just that one scene and it felt out of place by the end of the episode; likely a remnant from an earlier (worse) cut.

    I never read the script, but look at how the scene where Lana arrives is shot. She shows up, we zoom in on Clark's reaction, the focus softens. That's more or less how they introduce Lois. It's typically the "guy falls in love" shorthand shot in film making. I'm going to be watching that subplot like a hawk. In my headcanon, Lana grows up to be the sheriff of Smallville and is something of a local hero. She makes the best or herself. Of course, I would make her dad the former sheriff so I suppose it runs in that family. That's neither here nor there, but the point is Lana needs to move on from being Clark's ex after decades. The pilot almost turned the funeral into a meet cute. I audibly said "oh F--K ASS NO" to the annoyance of my lady, but luckily it never went anywhere so I made an ass of myself for nothing-- which I am glad is the case... And I've done the same for less.

    As for Lois and human interest pieces, perhaps I've mischaracterized my own point, but you hit what I'm getting at directly on the head. Lois absolutely sees the value in them, and my opinion is influenced by the idea that she'd see being assigned to a softer story as some dig at her ability or sex, at least when she's young, hungry and has something to prove (possibly to her father who has settled into being a military father who wanted a son). By the time they're dating, Lois would have long established herself as the premier reporter in Metropolis and possibly the world, which is cemented by the time she's older. She'd probably take those pieces on then because she doesn't need to prove anything anymore.

    Think about Superman on the Justice League for another parallel. He's generally their big gun. He can do everything and generally the workhorse they rely on often. When an alien invasion begins, generally you don't want him on the ground checking up on people. He cares and would love to, but he's most effective either against the big bad or dealing with some colossal threat-- and he knows it. You assign people like Batman or The Flash to deal with saving pedestrians. Lois is the sword of Damacles that hangs over everyone in Metropolis with a secret; having her write a report about the cat lady who lives on Maggin Boulevard is just a waste of her talents. She knows it. Give it to Kent, he'll warm everyone's heart before you reach the fold. Give it to Troupe, he'll get the job done as good as anyone else but with less fluff. Give it to Grant, she'll spice it up with talk about the cat lady's racy stories of her youth. Assign Lois to Luthor, Edge, the Invisible Mafia, Intergang, etc. Early on? She'd just refuse and do the big story anyway. What's Perry going to do, fire his greatest asset?

    Later in life, a lot of her inner idealism is let out because she's had someone like Clark in her life to never let her down and remind her that sometimes, absolute power need not corrupt absolutely; sometimes, people really are good. Early on? She'd see it as something of a demotion, and I think she'd revert back to that mindset after he dies to Doomsday. She's not perfect. She gives into heavy cynicism at times. It's why she'll always be better at reporting than Clark because he'll tend to give the benefit of the doubt where it's undeserved (which also is one of the reasons he's the world's greatest superhero). If I'm being honest, even before they start dating, I think Lois would read Clark's columns in the Planet which were human interest or sob stories A) to size up the new guy's skills since Perry insists on putting them together and B) because she actually does care about them and wants to know what happened to those people in the stories she turned down. But she'd resolutely turn them down. As you said, Lois would be a doctor, not a nurse (Jimmy would totally be her nurse), but she'd have nothing but respect for those that did. The only difference is that she'd rib her colleagues at the Planet for taking on those stories while being proud of taking down Luthor because unlike a doctor/nurse relationship, there's no real difference in status or rank between reporter colleagues.

    Aside from everyone knowing she's Perry's favorite.
    Last edited by Robanker; 02-27-2021 at 08:44 PM.

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