Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[manofsteel1979]

This episode was a bit weak compared to the two other natural finale episodes this season but it was still enjoyable as hell and quite easily cemented itself as the best first season of a live action Superman related series and quite possibly the best first season of an Arrowverse series since perhaps the first season of Arrow a decade ago.

I was quite surprised none of our regular leads died. If I was a betting man, I would have guessed Kyle Cushing, Sam Lane or even John Henry Irons would have made the ultimate sacrifice to win the day...but they are all alive and presumably back next season.

Its a bit of symmetry that the first episode Clark lost his earth mother Martha...and in this episode he officially mourns his Kryptonian holo dad. Its a symbolic turning of a page where now Clark is pretty much on his own and he and Lois have now moved into those mentor figure roles for Jordan and Jon. I guess we may eventually see Jor-El replaced by Lara, and that might be cool, but I'm also ok with them moving away from the holo Kryptonian parents trope that has been the norm for nearly every live action version of Superman going back to the Donner film. What started out as a way to help justify Marlon Brando's paycheck and allow him to have a bigger role in the movie has stuck with the mythos for a long time.

I've never been a fan of Clark/Kal more or less taking his orders from a hologram of his dead parents and have always preferred a Superman that decided for himself to be Superman and didn't rely on being given that mission by a computer program/ghost. I wouldn't be upset if this series abandons that trope going forward altogether, but the foreshadowing several episodes back the existence of a Lara crystal seems like I probably won't get my wish. Oh well.

I am curious where things go from here. I suspect Sam's replacement at the DOD will be an antagonist of our Super family. Someone mentioned an "Amanda Waller type."...is it too much to ask for it to actually BE Waller? I know preCrisis Waller was dead...but in this new post crisis continuity it gives them an out to bring her back either with the previous actress or a recast. I'd be up to see Pam Grier brought back from Smallville to reprise the role, or someone that takes notes of Viola Davis' performance from the DCEU.

...and here comes Nat...and if Nat is alive, anyone from the other Earth could show up. Even perhaps the evil Zod possessed Superman of that Earth.

[Rac7d*]

They could set him up to follow Lois now. If they have Jordan as "Clark", Natasha as "Steel", Jon could track to Lois. Personally, I think that would've worked better if Jordan had been a daughter, but it gives him a role that tracks the main adult set of characters and they've laid some groundwork with Lois there already with him.

I am still bummed Jon is not gonna have powers, and John Henry has his daughter back and proably wont have time for him.
I hope natalie meets traci thirteen

[superduperman]

I discussed it with a friend last night, but I genuinely laughed hard as sh!t when I saw Natasha's ship land and it become clear that the Irons are here to stay.

I laughed because I HONESTLY can't figure out Jon Kent's "thing" in this show now. Like, he doesn't have football anymore, Jordan got the powers, and now Nat is clearly on track to be Steel 2.

Seriously, I can't be the only person who now thinks this show was originally made for one son of Superman and not two.

If it were one son then Nat's inclusion would then create that tech counter balance to the one son's physical power. You'd have the next gen Superman and Steel and half brother and sister learning to get along and create this modern blended where everyone has a defined and clear role.

But as it stands it's "ah, look, it's the next gen Superman and Steel in training trying to make it work....and oh any Jon's here too, I guess."

______

I swear to God, just give him f&%king powers, kill him off, or make a spin off because this is just blowing my mind at this point. Everyone telling those of us who have had an issue with Jon's unimpactful role had that "told ya so" energy when Steel seemed to take him under his wing, but now that's yet again HILARIOUSLY overshadowed by Nat who is already a proven genius and Steel 2 in the comics.

We gonna spend all next season with Jon showing some unconditional support to his half sister as she runs rings around him in tech.

Is the idea just to make him everyone's cheerleader?

I've got "Jealous villain in the making" on my scorecard. To pit brother against brother.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'd just make CW Jon the Conner Kent analogue. Give him the leather jacket and the Tactile TK and he's golden.

[Superlad93]

I've got "Jealous villain in the making" on my scorecard. To pit brother against brother.

You'd assume so, but apparently you'd be wrong. The showrunners flat out said that he doesn't have it in him to go bad.

He's kind of just everyone's doormat, and stand-in. Clark and Lois think of of their kids is gonna have powers, assume it's Jon, thus treat him like it...but are proven wrong, thus leave him out of all things Kryptonian. Jon has dreams of being a football player, he's really good at it and on track for the pros...but he gets moved to a new town where the team and staff have it out for him, and his brother overshadows him in the sport with his powers. John Henry starts to warm up to Jon, finds potential parallels between themselves....but Nat shows up and is already a proven genius and is Steel in the comics. Jon follows his mom to investigate John Henry, Jon shows a real passion for telling the Truth...but the girl Jon likes has already stated that Lois is her hero and she shows budding investigative chops by trying to get info from Jon himself.

Seriously, this is the origin of a villain right here, but apparently not. Apparently he's just going to be...there. Neat.

[Superlad93]

I am still bummed Jon is not gonna have powers, and John Henry has his daughter back and proably wont have time for him.
I hope natalie meets traci thirteen

It's absolutely baffling, isn't it? It's like there's no actual room for him on the show even though he's the actual son of Superman.

My genuine hope is that the good reception and unmitigated sympathy this version of Jon has been getting online (along with the launch of his solo comic) leads to a major shift in focus onto him (as far as all the kids go) and he gets powers on top of that.

The lack of direction for this version of the character is absolutely frustrating especially now of all times.

_______

I'm also really looking forward to them keeping to Nat's LGBTQ+ orientation in the show.

[Vordan]

Jon’s in a tough spot because if they gave him powers, he’d be a great hero given he’s already so mature and nice. He’d also totally overshadow Jordan who basically needs to be the only one with powers in order for us to keep caring about him. The only way I see Jon getting powers is if they decide to pit Jon and Jordan against each other in terms of “how should we take over for Clark? Do we do things the way he did or (like Comic Jon apparently will) are we going to do our own thing?” Personally I’d have CW Jon follow comic Jon in going “you know what I love you dad, but I don’t think your way is the only way” and Jordan being the one to insist on following the path Clark laid out. So neither would be evil but there would be a fundamental disagreement that would have to be solved Civil War style. But that would be like an endgame story for this show.

[JAK]

You'd assume so, but apparently you'd be wrong. The showrunners flat out said that he doesn't have it in him to go bad.

He's kind of just everyone's doormat, and stand-in. Clark and Lois think of of their kids is gonna have powers, assume it's Jon, thus treat him like it...but are proven wrong, thus leave him out of all things Kryptonian. Jon has dreams of being a football player, he's really good at it and on track for the pros...but he gets moved to a new town where the team and staff have it out for him, and his brother overshadows him in the sport with his powers. John Henry starts to warm up to Jon, finds potential parallels between themselves....but Nat shows up and is already a proven genius and is Steel in the comics. Jon follows his mom to investigate John Henry, Jon shows a real passion for telling the Truth...but the girl Jon likes has already stated that Lois is her hero and she shows budding investigative chops by trying to get info from Jon himself.

Seriously, this is the origin of a villain right here, but apparently not. Apparently he's just going to be...there. Neat.

Actually, him feeling like he doesn't have a place could be next season's arc. This season was Jordan being introduced and growing into his own; this season could be Jon doing the same.

And I do see Jon going the Conner route - definitely *not* evil, but you don't have to be evil to be lost and act out a bit. The girl he likes could be part of that coming out in him, too. We'll just have to see.

[Superlad93]

Jon’s in a tough spot because if they gave him powers, he’d be a great hero given he’s already so mature and nice. He’d also totally overshadow Jordan who basically needs to be the only one with powers in order for us to keep caring about him.

Man, f%&k that kid.

I'm kidding. He's fine.

The only way I see Jon getting powers is if they decide to pit Jon and Jordan against each other in terms of “how should we take over for Clark? Do we do things the way he did or (like Comic Jon apparently will) are we going to do our own thing?” Personally I’d have CW Jon follow comic Jon in going “you know what I love you dad, but I don’t think your way is the only way” and Jordan being the one to insist on following the path Clark laid out. So neither would be evil but there would be a fundamental disagreement that would have to be solved Civil War style. But that would be like an endgame story for this show.

I'd be SUPER down for that. Like in the comics now Jon is taking more after his mom in this show, and he has an aversion to lying that seems to make him visibly uncomfortable, so I could see it. I mean, for goodness sake Black Lightning, Flash, and Star Girl have multiple main characters with powers. At least one of those shows have multiple main characters with the same powers.

Actually, him feeling like he doesn't have a place could be next season's arc. This season was Jordan being introduced and growing into his own; this season could be Jon doing the same.

Man, that's what literally everyone has been saying back to me since like midway through the show, and the show has gone out of its way to disagree with them. And when it seemed like they were about to give him a "thing" in the form of being about tech with John Henry (which would've been problematic if he'd have been Steel 2) Nat shows up and more than likely kills all momentum for that and sets him back at square one where yet another sibling of his is doing something he thought he loved far better, and is thus being favored by the parent (Clark with football and John with tech).

I think it's okay to just say that the showrunner planned this out poorly and instead wrote a show for one son of Superman and one best friend of the son of Superman who shouldn't have been named Jon. I genuinely wonder if that was the original draft given that there was only one kid before Crisis. It's not the first time this show has changed things up. John Henry was originally supposed to be Lex for real apparently.

[Vordan]

Villain-wise, yeah, we're gonna do an array. [laughs] So we have some more Killgrave type, like that kind of villain or villains that are going to show up. But we also have -- I don't want to spoil anything. In a way that the show is Superman & Lois, so we want a foe for Superman, and we always want to foe for Lois. So I think every season, you'll get some version of that template, but it's not going to be a Kryptonian again.

https://www.cbr.com/superman-lois-se...mpression=true

Great interview with the show runner here.

[Superlad93]

https://www.cbr.com/superman-lois-se...mpression=true

Great interview with the show runner here.

Sounds like more of the same for Jon at least.

Though, the comment about finding out what's important to him is both interesting and hilarious. Interesting because, hey look, we finally get some story regarding Jon that's not driven by Jordan or someone else....maybe. Hilarious because you'd think that with 15 episodes and all that filler they'd have found some time to get into what's important to Jon, but nope guess not, huh lol

But seriously though, I'd be really interested in Jon's story here if they took from the current run of the comics, and Jon became way more into learning about the social injustices of the word. Maybe the girl he likes will open his eyes to it. Maybe it'll get "messy" because this will be his form of acting out, and....

....whatever man, I like started to think of what that could be like for like two seconds and all the ways the show could screw him over just flooded my mind and turned me off the whole thing. Just give him some got damn powers so he can matter to the story. I'm at the point where I'd take them hinting at powers for him, or him having powers that switch on and off at random (making them functionally useless, but at least there)

[Vordan]

See the problem is you know who Jon is like the most character wise? Byrne Superman. He doesn’t have any real neuroticism or mental hang ups or big personality flaws. He’s just a good kid who deals with **** getting thrown at him as best as he can. If he got powers as he is right now, he’d be the perfect replacement for his dad, which is why he won’t until they change that. Hopefully they flesh him out more now that they’re aware of how much the audience likes him as a character, at least he got a gf lol.

For S2 Rogues I want either Brainiac or Ultra-Humanite. Given that they’re also clearly fans of the Triangle Era, Conduit would be great too.

[JAK]

Man, that's what literally everyone has been saying back to me since like midway through the show, and the show has gone out of its way to disagree with them. And when it seemed like they were about to give him a "thing" in the form of being about tech with John Henry (which would've been problematic if he'd have been Steel 2) Nat shows up and more than likely kills all momentum for that and sets him back at square one where yet another sibling of his is doing something he thought he loved far better, and is thus being favored by the parent (Clark with football and John with tech).

I do get that, but just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't or can't. And the show's been good on enough stuff that I'm willing to give it time to see where it goes. We get to the end of season two and there's no change at all, I'd be surprised. If the show had a lot of other major issues, I very likely would feel the same way about it that you do.

I think it's okay to just say that the showrunner planned this out poorly and instead wrote a show for one son of Superman and one best friend of the son of Superman who shouldn't have been named Jon. I genuinely wonder if that was the original draft given that there was only one kid before Crisis. It's not the first time this show has changed things up. John Henry was originally supposed to be Lex for real apparently.

That's a good point - and possibly true. I'm willing to go with it, for now, in case they want a slower burn or to have it be a great emphasis later. But then:

See the problem is you know who Jon is like the most character wise? Byrne Superman. He doesn’t have any real neuroticism or mental hang ups or big personality flaws. He’s just a good kid who deals with **** getting thrown at him as best as he can. If he got powers as he is right now, he’d be the perfect replacement for his dad, which is why he won’t until they change that. Hopefully they flesh him out more now that they’re aware of how much the audience likes him as a character, at least he got a gf lol.

That's a really good observation, actually. I know I'm in the minority, but I've never minded characters like that. He does, however, need some fleshing out, though, and there's no way they aren't doing that at some point.

For S2 Rogues I want either Brainiac or Ultra-Humanite. Given that they’re also clearly fans of the Triangle Era, Conduit would be great too.

Yep - I still say Kyle will end up as Conduit, but Kenny Braverman moving back to Smallville wouldn't surprise me either. A "The Death of Clark Kent" story told in the S&A framework could really be solid.

For smaller baddies, I'd like to see Psy-phon and Dreadnaught.

[Quinlan58]

Watched the thing, liked the thing, agree it's not as good as the previous false ends but it's certainly a good ending for this season anyway.

Clark: Good performance as always, would have preferred to see him dodge Zeta's attacks, his fight with several Kryptonians one after the others was in concept cool but in execution lacked the physical impact it should have had (sonic booms aren't enough to sell it, give me some craters on the ground when he throws them), his scenes recovering the fragments of Jor-El's crystal and his eulogy were both great. Overall, he's been a very enjoyable take on Superman, sort of lacked a defined character arc here (I can't really say he's much different here from where he was in the second episode), but the strength of his characterization and his relationships with the rest of the cast still makes him a top tier Superman as far as I'm concerned.

Lois: Has come a long way from how emotionally sidelined she was at the start. Her conversation with Jordan in memoryspace didn't go as far as I would have wanted it to (though I did like the acknowledgement prior to it that for most of his life it had been Lois the one to help him deal with his issues), but Tulloch did her absolute best with what she was given, and her standing up to Zeta and her conversations with Clark, John and Sam were all great.

John Henry: A great capstone to a great character introduction. Having the power armour warn of impending depletion of energy reserves may be a cliche way to build tension by now, but it sure remains effective, and as Vordan said the internal rhyme of him falling from space this episode was a neat one. Wole did some great work just projecting this energy of "I know exactly how you feel and would do anything to prevent you from suffering as I have" throughout the episode, and his conversations with Lois (and Sam too) in the final scenes were very good.

Jordan: Not a highlight here (it sure is hard to take him as Kryptonian Palpatine seriously), but he's been good enough through the season, so I don't mind too much.

The Cushings: Man, that save from a building on fire might be the most stock of stock "non-super heroic act" scenes in a superhero story, but I've come to like Kyle so much I want him to have this uncomplicated win, nevermind the cliches. So yeah, perhaps their issues in Smallville were tied with a too neat knot, but between Lana going "yeah, we cried all night and ended up drinking an entire box of white wine" and Kyle repeating the barbecue from the first few episodes but genuinely happy this time, I'll give them this. Also, lol at Sophie being so completely irrelevant, why did they even make a younger daughter if they weren't going to use her.

Jon: Oh man, I've been scoffing at all the people hyperfocusing on Jon and ignoring any time he has any moment in this series because it's not what they wanted, but holy **** were all those complains totally fair for this episode. We never see anyone comfort him for what he just went through, his reasonable complains about the plan are totally brushed aside and then acknowledged as reasonable when he's not present (holy **** Clark, would it have killed you to say "he's one of my enemies" when Jon asked who Killgrave was instead of shutting him up?), then he's asked to shoot his brother if something goes wrong with no acknowledgement of how fucked up that is, and then in the peak of hilariousness as far as his treatment by the narrative goes, his "I love you" to Jordan is completely out of focus when in any other series it would have been milked for drama. But hey, at least we ended with him surrounded by friends having fun and a maybe-girlfriend (who already has a more natural connection to the superhero world than Sarah), so at least he's no longer miserable, lol. I'm not even angry at any of this, I'm just laughing too hard.

Other stuff: Edge remains alive to play his role when the inevitable Death & Return of Superman adaptation happens, Nat arrives in a way reminiscent of Kara's arrival, Sam retires in a good enough end to his character arc (even if we had some acknowledgement previously that his relationship with Lois is still frayed), we get teenage boys gushing about how cool Superman is while playing Injustice 2 in a deeply cheesy but also fun moment, Lois easily solves the Gazette's finantial problems by selling her house.

Overall, fun episode, very good season, excited for more. Conduit as the villain for S2 sounds like a great idea.

[Vordan]

That's a really good observation, actually. I know I'm in the minority, but I've never minded characters like that. He does, however, need some fleshing out, though, and there's no way they aren't doing that at some point.

Maybe on here since I chased all the other Byrne lovers away but that Jon is so popular shows that those characters do have appeal. But I think they really rely on characters to play off of them, like how Jon plays off Jordan.

Yep - I still say Kyle will end up as Conduit, but Kenny Braverman moving back to Smallville wouldn't surprise me either. A "The Death of Clark Kent" story told in the S&A framework could really be solid.

For smaller baddies, I'd like to see Psy-phon and Dreadnaught.

I don’t see Kyle breaking bad, I thought he might this season but it didn’t happen. I don’t think he’ll die or turn villain, but I’m not really sure what they do with him now. I’m assuming Smallville is still going to decline and that will be interesting to see that effect on Kyle and the Cushings.

I don’t know who those two are lol, gotta go look them up!