Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[RobinGA]

Jon seemed to be the forgotten one, at times his character development
really missing. There are hints where Jon manages to really step up for his
family, but more can be done with him.

You really get a sense that they need some outside adult males in the family
that could look out for him. Because I love Clark, he certainly is never going
to be a bad guy, but as a father well he sucks. All of that wanting to be his
kids pal really fails to provide consistent leadership. The sense you got from Day 1
is well Jordan has powers, I need to work with him. Jon, could you get the
garbage out to be picked up by Monday? Unfortunately, Sam Lane is not the
guy you want helping out your non-super powered children. About Jon's only
hope on the show has been Lois.

The good part about Jon Kent seems to be that he is a a self starter, so while
at times it looked like he needed an intervention, he will probably be OK.

Jordan annoyed the crap out of me at the beginning part of the show, but he
really grew on me. I still found Jon more interesting, but he was no longer cringe
inducing when he came on to read his lines.

The finances of the Kent family are still ridiculous. Agriculture is cratering with
family farms going out of business, but Clark knows nothing about it, but hey they will do great.
Then the Kent's take the decision to plow their finances into a podunk smalltown
paper. I wish that I could have been in a writer's meeting where they discussed this.
After an angry lecture from me about what life is really like for rural people, they would have
been shocked. Gee, this angry left winger has convinced us, we need to come up with another
plan. But you could get away with this fake TV economic activity, because Clark and Lois
don't have to worry about being harassed by credit card companies and banks.

[The Frog Bros]

World’s Finest… got a good chuckle out of me. Love the dynamic between Clark and John.

Also really like the dynamic with John and his AI.

The Hammer is cool as ****. Loved the scene when Steel was equipping it.

Speaking of the Hammer, as awesome as it always is, think I liked the toss in last week’s episode better.

The fight scene with Supes, Irons, and the Kryptonian army was 300-esque, particularly Clark’s moves. Pretty short fight scene though.

I liked the symbolic burial of Jor-El under the tree.

Thought that Jordan was going to spill the secret with Sarah, but I imagine that as a plot point for next season.

If Edge is no longer full Eradicator, wonder what’s next for him? Still wish he had the glasses, maybe that’s his upgrade for next season.

[JAK]

Maybe on here since I chased all the other Byrne lovers away but that Jon is so popular shows that those characters do have appeal. But I think they really rely on characters to play off of them, like how Jon plays off Jordan.

LOL! I'm more of a Jurgens lover than a Byrne lover, but yeah - I mean more that I don't mind characters like that staying consistent/constant. People (not talking anyone on here, I promise) tend to like characters like that, but then also want them to change. I can get that, change is constant and expected, but I've always been fine with characters that can roll with most things and let them slide (in the long-run). That can sound like I mean "not fleshing them out" because usually angst/etc is what's used to do so in teen characters, but I'd be more than fine with him being further fleshed out in other ways.

I don’t see Kyle breaking bad, I thought he might this season but it didn’t happen. I don’t think he’ll die or turn villain, but I’m not really sure what they do with him now. I’m assuming Smallville is still going to decline and that will be interesting to see that effect on Kyle and the Cushings.

At this point, if they do, it will be a tragic fall - we've been made to (mostly) care about him through the story, so the audience would be that much more invested if it happened. Maybe Kryptonite poisoning slowly breaks his mental state down, who knows. I'm not saying I want it to happen, but I can see it, especially since he's a new character.

I don’t know who those two are lol, gotta go look them up!

Here you go - it'd certainly be a fun cg fest, that's for sure: https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Psi-Phon_(New_Earth)

If Edge is no longer full Eradicator, wonder what’s next for him? Still wish he had the glasses, maybe that’s his upgrade for next season.

Could be. They may also be setting him up as an eventual "volatile frenemy" similar to some of the comics. And YES - the glasses are a must.

[Vordan]

Genuinely don’t know what they could do with Edge. The interview I posted had the show runner compare him to Loki, but Edge knowing Clark’s human identity feels like a massive threat in the making. I’m assuming both Edge and Leslie are going to be stuck in cells under DOD watch, so whoever takes over from Sam is going to know Clark’s secret, because why wouldn’t either of them tell knowing Clark doesn’t want the world to know?

[manwhohaseverything]

Byrne superman didn't change?i thought there was character arc with his alien side,his no kill code..etc.Jurgens superman i agree mostly is a flat arc character in his stories mostly.It's the world that changes around superman that brings intrigue like dos or even clark and lois..

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

If they aren't going to use Lex, which is a possibility, I could see Edge being saved as the defacto archenemy for this Clark and Lois. I don't know how redeemable he is, I don't remember if he's killed people onscreen, I think he killed that Derek guy offscreen and some people may have died in Metroplolis. Anyway I'm ok with powerless Jonathan as it's an interesting twist and i like Jordan. But I hope Jon and Clark interact more in season 2.

[Superlad93]

See the problem is you know who Jon is like the most character wise? Byrne Superman. He doesn’t have any real neuroticism or mental hang ups or big personality flaws. He’s just a good kid who deals with **** getting thrown at him as best as he can. If he got powers as he is right now, he’d be the perfect replacement for his dad, which is why he won’t until they change that. Hopefully they flesh him out more now that they’re aware of how much the audience likes him as a character, at least he got a gf lol.

Oh but it's so much worse than that. He's not Byrne's Superman. He's Morrison's Superman from JLA. He's dependable, a jack of all trades but a master of none, charming, and will always catch you when you fall. In the same way Morrison's Clark is the ultimate dad, Jon is the ultimate big brother.

And because giving THAT guy powers would return the dynamic to where it started before Jordan got powers, they can't do that.

But they also seem to refuse to want to give him an alternative. He's not the tech guy because Nat is here now and she helped build Steel. He's not the investigative reporter because his potential gf seems to have that covered. He's the Fred Jones of the Scooby gang.

I do get that, but just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't or can't. And the show's been good on enough stuff that I'm willing to give it time to see where it goes. We get to the end of season two and there's no change at all, I'd be surprised. If the show had a lot of other major issues, I very likely would feel the same way about it that you do.

The fact of the matter is one of the show's major issues is Jon and how they've decided to allocate no real time or focus for him not tied to others. That's a major issue that has only continued, and because of that I don't know why I should trust that they'll fix it.

As I pointed out before, it doesn't feel like the show was made with him in mind. Or at least not this incarnation of him.

[Superlad93]

Jon seemed to be the forgotten one, at times his character development
really missing. There are hints where Jon manages to really step up for his
family, but more can be done with him.

You really get a sense that they need some outside adult males in the family
that could look out for him. Because I love Clark, he certainly is never going
to be a bad guy, but as a father well he sucks. All of that wanting to be his
kids pal really fails to provide consistent leadership. The sense you got from Day 1
is well Jordan has powers, I need to work with him. Jon, could you get the
garbage out to be picked up by Monday? Unfortunately, Sam Lane is not the
guy you want helping out your non-super powered children. About Jon's only
hope on the show has been Lois.

The good part about Jon Kent seems to be that he is a a self starter, so while
at times it looked like he needed an intervention, he will probably be OK.

Jordan annoyed the crap out of me at the beginning part of the show, but he
really grew on me. I still found Jon more interesting, but he was no longer cringe
inducing when he came on to read his lines.

As a Superman fan this sounds bad, but I was genuinely rooting for John Henry to become Jon's stand-in dad because clearly if you can't shoot heat from your eyes Clark has nothing to talk to you about as a father.

I still remember the moments that got me most were when Clark just flat out takes Jordan to the Fortress and leaves Jon to go to school alone. And it's only in an extra scene that's blink and you'll miss it that it's implied that Clark too Jon too...eventually. "Gee, maybe BOTH my sons want to visit my super cool Fortress full of alien tech? Naaaahhh." And hilariously Jon spends the day being bullied by both students and teaching staff.

And the other was when Jon, who gave up his promising future in football to come here, lets slip in the softest way "hey, maybe it's a little unfair that Jordan gets to start on the team with no practice at all?" and implies that he's feeling left out of his own team because of it. Clark's response? "what? Nah it's cool. You'll kick it better next time, son" "dad, I'm QB" "that's nice not-Jordan"

So when John Henry had the novel idea of, I dunno, taking an interest in what other interests Jon may have, I cheered. I damn near let out a tear when he dropped the minimum fatherly advice requirement "you know you can like more than one thing, right?"

And while I'm really happy to see Nat in theory, I'm sad because it's Jordan all over again because now there's going to be no time for Jon with John Henry. But at least John Henry has a good excuse. Clark was just kind of a **** dad.

[Vordan]

Lmao well Clark being a crap dad and screwing up is part of why I enjoy the show. But yeah that the writers don’t seem to have realized how Clark’s bigger concern for his super powered son over his non powered one can come across is definitely a flaw. They should lean in to that and make it explicitly something Clark is doing but doesn’t realize he’s doing.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

As a Superman fan this sounds bad, but I was genuinely rooting for John Henry to become Jon's stand-in dad because clearly if you can't shoot heat from your eyes Clark has nothing to talk to you about as a father.

I still remember the moments that got me most were when Clark just flat out takes Jordan to the Fortress and leaves Jon to go to school alone. And it's only in an extra scene that's blink and you'll miss it that it's implied that Clark too Jon too...eventually. "Gee, maybe BOTH my sons want to visit my super cool Fortress full of alien tech? Naaaahhh." And hilariously Jon spends the day being bullied by both students and teaching staff.

And the other was when Jon, who gave up his promising future in football to come here, lets slip in the softest way "hey, maybe it's a little unfair that Jordan gets to start on the team with no practice at all?" and implies that he's feeling left out of his own team because of it. Clark's response? "what? Nah it's cool. You'll kick it better next time, son" "dad, I'm QB" "that's nice not-Jordan"

So when John Henry had the novel idea of, I dunno, taking an interest in what other interests Jon may have, I cheered. I damn near let out a tear when he dropped the minimum fatherly advice requirement "you know you can like more than one thing, right?"

And while I'm really happy to see Nat in theory, I'm sad because it's Jordan all over again because now there's going to be no time for Jon with John Henry. But at least John Henry has a good excuse. Clark was just kind of a **** dad.

I'm sorry, but you were the #1 apologist when comic Clark let Jon in space witn Jor-El, and when he was tortured for 7 years from that colossal stupidity and out of character bs, but now he's a bad Dad here? of all places, seriously?

[Superlad93]

Lmao well Clark being a crap dad and screwing up is part of why I enjoy the show. But yeah that the writers don’t seem to have realized how Clark’s bigger concern for his super powered son over his non powered one can come across is definitely a flaw. They should lean in to that and make it explicitly something Clark is doing but doesn’t realize he’s doing.

I feel like it only strengthens the theory that this show was made with one son in mind.

Just think, Clark's a much better father if it's just Jordan, right? I mean, he was always missing time with him before, but now he's really stepping up and being honest with him and trying to relate/find common ground with him. Jordan begs him to stay on the football team, and the two bond over it being something Clark wished he could've tried. The list goes on and on.

But the big thing is that, like you imply, the show doesn't really call him on his bullshit as a dad after a point. It blames it on Jon breaking up his his gf or adjusting to town, so they don't have to face it. But in the end John Henry is the only adult in this show that sits down with Jon and lets him know that he can be more than what he or anyone else expected him to be, and that's genuinely-- and unintentionally-- heartbreaking. And again, the show's not interested in the implications of that since it needs Jon to bounce back to rub Jordan's tummy and tell him he's special, or be the dutiful son, or get his arm broken doing both. The kid's in like some sort of pocket universe.

Has anyone ever seen the new show on AMC Kevin Can Go F Himself? There's gotta be a version of that for this Jon.

I'm sorry, but you were the #1 apologist when comic Clark let Jon in space witn Jor-El

Yup that's me! You don't have to agree with me, and I could go into specifically why, and I think the reasons are defined and sound, but the point is moot.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I genuinely don't understand how you can be concerned with tv Clark and Lois's parenting while being supportive of Bendis's Clark and Lois who makes Slade Wilson or Darkseid look like father of the year.

[Superlad93]

That's fine if you don't. You shouldn't lose sleep over it. That horse has been beaten good and well by this point, and I'm onto enjoying and complaining (I don't indulge often, but I've held onto this spirit bomb long enough) about other stuff now.

[daBronzeBomma]

Thoughts on #SupermanAndLois (SAL) season 1 episode 15 "The Last Sons Of Krypton". Spoilers follow below ...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
1. After some false starts, we have finally arrived at the one (technically second) true season one finale for SAL.

I kinda view this episode and the last two as SAL Mini-Season 1.5, as Episode 12 ("Thru The Valley of Death") still feels very much like the original intended finale, with the last 3 episodes sorta as an action-packed addendum.

2. A Kryptonian villain wants Krypton to live on Earth again. Again.

I think I'm good with taking a break from Kryptonian villains (on this or any show or movie) if they're always going to have the same motivation of restoring their dead planet on Earth.

Morgan Edge / Tal-Rho wanted this, the Eradicator always wants this in every medium in which it shows up, Zod in the movie Man of Steel wanted this, Zeta-Rho Possessing Jordan wanted this ... can they just come up with a different motivation, please? Stop trying to make Krypto-Earth happen.

3. Superman screaming his son's name into sub-orbital atmosphere like waves to locate him was a cool moment.

Reminded me of Zack Snyder's Justice League intro, when Superman's death cry was creepily audibly echoing all over the world.

3. Clark vs Zeta-Possessed Jordan was weird.

First off, giving Jordan the DCEU Darkseid's voice box is such a (deliberately?) off-putting choice. It would have been far scarier (but maybe more confusing) if Possessed Jordan was talking with his own voice, maybe with the glowing eyes.

Appreciated that Clark wasn't going to trade violent adult-sized blows with the body of his 15-year-old son, even if Zeta called him out for that.

4. Clark needs to fight other superhumans more and fight humans with hi-tech gear less often.

Watching Superman fighting other super humans is so much more satisfying than the P.I.S.-riddled tripe we get when he fights humans.

Clark fighting at superspeed is always badass. He always "forgets" that power when fighting humans (for no real reason other than Plot Induced Stupidity: i.e. there's no fight at all if he uses that power).

But against other super-speedsters? You get the full arsenal on display. Tyler Hoechlin looks good kicking ass.

5. John Henry Irons contributes a LOT to this show.

Seriously, Wole Parks is so good in this role. I hope in Season 2, he becomes a regular, and that he gets a red cape (or red cape-like wings) as well as his own unique S-emblem like in the comics.

Not sure how they could make his helmet more comix-accurate without going metallic face paint, which is really dicey and could look too much "Tin-Man From Wizard Of Oz".

Either way, loved his teaming up with Clark here. Going into battle is easier when you're together.

6. I love that Lois was an active participant and not a bystander in this particular conflict.

The show has done a real good job of eliminating "damsel in distress" as any type of valid descriptor for Ms. Lane. She plugs herself into any crisis in the way she can actually help best.

After one season of SAL, Elizabeth Tulloch is now second on my GOAT live-action Lois Lane rankings (right behind Teri Hatcher).

7. We finally got Jonathan vs Jordan ... sorta.

There was always the fear (after the pilot) that the two brothers would eventually be turned against each other ... because that's a staple of CW shows: trite confrontations, as well as love triangles and sibling rivalries.

This show thankfully has a negligible amount of any of those things.

It was a striking visua setting the boys one-sided fight, but hopefully this is the last time we see one of them actually grabbing the other by the throat for a long time.

8. Love of Family conquers all.

Alright, even I'm getting a little bored with the power of love being this family's overused explicit secret weapon to every problem.

Just like John Henry gives Clark the pep talk he needed to expel Zod from his mind a few episodes back, here Lois does the same for Jordan to expel Zeta. This is some weak tea mind control if that's all it takes to break free.

Then again, I really hate mind control / possession storylines in general, so I'm more than fine with this dumb trope having a dumb solution.

9. Tal-Rho should have died.

I get they didn't want Superman, especially this Superman, to kill anyone.

But there is absolutely no point to Tal-Rho continuing to exist on this show. His Morgan Edge charade is over. He cannot resume that human guise. He's broken out of Earthly containment before. He's directionless now ... and narratively useless. Still hate that he remains Kal's actual half-brother.

Leslie Larr has a lot more potential, but her secrets are out too. She can't be allowed to roam free. She's in the same boat as Tal.

If Clark wouldn't extinguish their threat forever, John Henry damn sure could have, and with a clear conscience, too.

10. That stinger: what a way to lead into Season 2!

Gotta admit, when I saw that rocket ship show up at the end of the show, for a solid 10 terrifying seconds, I feared the worst.

I briefly thought it was going to be Kara. I would have HATED that.

Immense relief and a bit of happiness when it was revealed to be Nat Irons herself, John Henry's daughter from the alternate Earth!

Their joyful reunion felt genuine, and then Nat laying eyes on (our) Lois in shock and saying "Mom?" gives us our throughline to kick off Season 2.

Bottom line: Solid end to a great first season.

The first season of Superman And Lois was an unqualified success to me.

They took a giant risk with putting this 80+ year old character in such a radically different setting (and stage of life) ... and it paid off so much better than I would have predicted.

In fact, it's best Superman storytelling since ... Superman Smashes The Klan (in print) from 2019, and the best live-action Superman since ... jeez, probably Superman II (in theaters) from 1981.

That's either high praise for SAL and/or faint praise for the live-action Superman stuff of the last 40 years.

Episode Grade: 8/10.

Season 1 Grade: 9/10.

Next up: Season 2 of Superman And Lois begins shooting this fall, and the Season 2 premiere date is most likely around February 2022, a full year after Season 1 first aired.

Really hoping we get more access to the rest of the Superman lore next year (more Metropolis, more Superman villians and supporting cast, more stories taken from the comix, more improvements on the suits, etc) especially since Supergirl will be all over by then.

Take a bow, Superman And Lois! Definitely one of the most pleasant surprises of 2021!

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

That's fine if you don't. You shouldn't lose sleep over it. That house has been beaten good and well by this point, and I'm onto enjoying and complaining (I don't indulge often, but I've held onto this spirit bomb long enough) about other stuff now.

well yeah! and rightfully so! absolutely revolting and shameful mark on classic characters. hell I'm willing to give the CW folks a lot of slack because of the low bar the comics made. I said in another forum, if tv Clark and Lois found out about that, they'd be disgusted and slap the hell out their comic counterparts.