Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[rpmaluki]

I think it's okay to just say that the showrunner planned this out poorly and instead wrote a show for one son of Superman and one best friend of the son of Superman who shouldn't have been named Jon. I genuinely wonder if that was the original draft given that there was only one kid before Crisis. It's not the first time this show has changed things up. John Henry was originally supposed to be Lex for real apparently.

This has been my thinking since the show started. Nothing has convinced me otherwise. I do believe Jordan was the original Jon, the son they planned for but something made them add a second son and switch the names around. Maybe they weren't sure how folks would take to the anxiety plot or someone wanted to play on the alien/human dichotomy around Clark and his two fathers, regardless, it's no excuse for how they've handled Jon since. That's where my frustration with Jon lies, not on the powers even though I wished he had them, the only problem here is how to develop what's essentially a perfect son of Superman character-wise. Everyone on this show is struggling with something, a flaw in their character, including the title leads, Jon basically has no flaws and giving him powers this soon would have made him a flawless Superboy/man and that'n not necessarily the point of this show. There must always be a build up towards something, character growth, positive or negative for viewers to root for. As it stands, many are rooting for him because he has no powers and has been "in desperate need for a win". All I want is a character arc for Jon, powers or not. The thing I do not want is to put the boys in competition with one another, in any shape or form. Putting Jordan on the football team was a mistake that should never have been written. I am hopeful for next season that things will improve for Jon in terms of the writing. No more Cushings getting better writing than Jon Kent, despite having less screen time than the son of Superman.

If they aren't going to use Lex, which is a possibility, I could see Edge being saved as the defacto archenemy for this Clark and Lois. I don't know how redeemable he is, I don't remember if he's killed people onscreen, I think he killed that Derek guy offscreen and some people may have died in Metroplolis. Anyway I'm ok with powerless Jonathan as it's an interesting twist and i like Jordan. But I hope Jon and Clark interact more in season 2.

Derek burnt himself through heat vision after Clark chased him down. I feel the same about re: the boys.

[Superlad93]

well yeah! and rightfully so! absolutely revolting and shameful mark on classic characters. hell I'm willing to give the CW folks a lot of slack because of the low bar the comics made. I said in another forum, if tv Clark and Lois found out about that, they'd be disgusted and slap the hell out their comic counterparts.

Horse. That horse has been beaten.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think overall, this was a solid first season, on par with the first season of Smallville.

The pros have certainly been the cast and the really nuanced writing that consistently dug deeper than the usual superhero soap opera tropes. There were a few missteps, of course, but I think they did a great job of making all the characters flawed yet heroic. Bonus points for not ever making Kyle into the MAGA parody I was afraid he would end up being.

The cons were a slightly padded episode count. They easily could have cut out one or two episodes and we would have missed nothing. Both the actors playing Jor-El and Perry White were weak sauce. Honestly, I think they should have put a wig and beard on Tyler and had him play Jor-El because the guy they got seemed to be doing a low-rent Brando impression. He was so dull his death had no impact whatsoever.

[Frontier]

I haven't seen a show have so many finale-esque episodes in sequence before the actual finale since I watched a season of Kamen Rider (or Planet With). Although I feel like, of all the finale's, this did a solid job of bringing things full-circle and ending on a good note.

Steel's reaction to the missile not working on Eradiactor should become a meme.

"JORDAN!" Both mom and dad got to scream out Jordan's name. They're that in-sync!

I guess it shows the difference between a peak Kryptonian with training like Superman and the defense council in the bodies of those soldiers when Superman just keeps smacking them away with little effort. Sure they got a few good hits and snagged him once, but otherwise they were barely a challenge for him.

Superman and Steel totally pulled a Raditz move on Eradiactor. I'm actually kind of surprised that restored Edge to normal instead of, well, obliterating him. It's actually kind of uncommon for them to defeat the Big Bad without killing or taking them out somehow, so points to that, though now that Edge and Larr are in custody I'm curious how they'll be used in season 2. A possible redemption storyline? Edge just wants a family.

How could you not appoint the man who, after you basically kicked him out, ran into a blaze to save someone as your fire chief? I'm kind of amazed how far this show has come around to making me like and support Kyle Cushing.

So is this going to be like Smallville where Jordan hasn't mastered flight because he was possessed? So he's still only got strength, heat-vision, and super-hearing.

Lois helping buy the paper from Chrissy was a nice move, but like...what about the Planet? I guess Lois probably thinks it's better that she goes into the reporting business for herself rather than take a chance that the Planet won't get bought out again and be stuck having to cater to corporate interests, but I feel like I'm the only one who cares about what's happening to it. Maybe bring Perry out of retirement to take it back.

Superman still not mentioning that Edge is his half-brother to the public. I guess that's not really pertinent to the case at hand.

You know you're in Smallville when you have a romantic moment in the tall grass.

Sam stepping down from the DoD and becoming a stay-at-home grandpa was unexpected, but probably a good move to keep Sam likeable. Narrative fiction has taught me to expect his replacement will probably be worse or anti-Superman, although I wonder if it'll be a name character.

I was wondering why everyone was dressed for a funeral, but then it turns out they're planning to bury Jor-El. Clark's buried Jonathan Kent numerous times, but it's rarer to see him bury and mourn his biological father (albeit a holographic AI version of him). When Clark needed him the most, Jor-El was there, and he's had him for most of his adult life. It's only a shame Jon never got to meet HoloGramps. Will they ever rebuild the Fortress?

Just when John Henry Irons is getting ready to leave because he's still uncomfortable being around Lois and wants to reconnect with his sister...Natalie shows up in her own pod. Most season finale's tease the next Big Bad or threat, while the Kent Family has to deal with a new complication. Like, things are really going to be awkward now that Natalie sees her mom alive with another family and that Lois doesn't know her (and Natalie is technically and technically not the daughter she miscarried), and two "brothers" she doesn't know if she even wants anything to do with. And she might take longer to understand Superman isn't a threat here than her dad did because to her he might still be the man that killed her mom. And, if Natalie made it, Zod!Superman probably did too, although it sounds like we won't be addressing that immediately. I guess I'm glad for John Henry.

[RobinGA]

You had a nice wrap up. I will say when we watched the burial of Jor-EL the AI (the real
Jor-El died long ago) my wife said "Well, someone will do something with that." I don't mean
to be all paternalistic here, but she isn't into superheroes at all, finds my passion for DC Comics
characters weird. So, I was happy for that moment. That is true cynical DC Comics fan activity,
it made me laugh with pleasure.

I really came to like on the series the interactions with the brothers. They really care for one
another, I am glad it didn't descend into typical teen angst. Jordan's story arc was an interesting one.
He went from someone wandering around, waving his arms, yelling all the time to something
of a grownup. Lois' "You've always been a fighter" made me laugh in the show. But Jordan grew on me,
his story is one we should know, the young hero who goes on a voyage of discovery, discovers
who he is. That kiss with Sarah was a sweet moment.

Jon could have been given more to do. Jon's journey is a harder one, I don't know why the writers
and producers haven't figured it out. Think about it: he is a level headed kid (well not all the time), cares
about his family, is treated like crap by his dad. How easy is it to be Superman's son when Big Blue
pretty much ignores you? You have to feel like you are the ultimate freak when being half-Kryptonian
means you are just like everyone else on Earth. Jon doesn't get anything from his heritage: no powers,
no heart to hearts with Dad, no learning of language, art, literature, music. Being the super powered Kryptonian
is what is expected of you, how do you deal with it when that isn't going to be your life. Of course,
Jon may get powers down the road. I know many people thought they would be like the super friends where
their powers would only activate when next to one another.

I am still blown away by Lois at a smalltown paper. Has no one on the show heard of Zoom? Are they unaware that
reporters can live outside of where the paper is located, but still do stories? I mean this is freaking Lois Lane we
are talking about. Are we supposed to believe that being a co-owner of a smalltown paper is what we are going
to have her do? It makes zero sense. Of course, much like Smallville, all kinds of weird things are going to
continue to happen around here. The producers may want to avoid comparisons with Smallville the show, but really
this is a grownup version with Clark.

[JAK]

Byrne superman didn't change?i thought there was character arc with his alien side,his no kill code..etc.

"Byrne Superman didn't change" is not what anyone is saying. We're taking character types, not specific characters.

The fact of the matter is one of the show's major issues is Jon and how they've decided to allocate no real time or focus for him not tied to others. That's a major issue that has only continued, and because of that I don't know why I should trust that they'll fix it.

As I pointed out before, it doesn't feel like the show was made with him in mind. Or at least not this incarnation of him.

As we've both said: from what we've come to know, it seems there was potentially a lot of shake-up in the writing this season, between Luthor turning into John Henry and who knows what else (possibly one son to two). At this point, though, they've got a season under their belt and some general sense of direction, and a little time (admittedly, not a lot) to look back at what they've done and make course corrections. Doesn't mean they will, and it's good that you and others are bringing this to a head to call attention to it to help ensure those corrections, I just think they've done well enough in most places that it can't be a blind spot forever. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but that remains to be seen. I just think that, as a for instance, the S&A writers would be more willing to look at their flaws/blind spots and correct than other recent Superman teams that shall remain nameless.

Lmao well Clark being a crap dad and screwing up is part of why I enjoy the show. But yeah that the writers don’t seem to have realized how Clark’s bigger concern for his super powered son over his non powered one can come across is definitely a flaw. They should lean in to that and make it explicitly something Clark is doing but doesn’t realize he’s doing.

Clark on the wrong side of the learning curve as a father, at least in some respects, paints a fascinating contrast to how very adept he is as Superman (and isn't the latter a nice **cking change of pace!). And Super-brain, whether intentional by the writers or not, is how he's applying being a father - Jordan has powers, so the focus is getting that under control. And I do like the idea of it being something Clark is doing but doesn't realize he is, because that can be a great means of growth for Clark AND Jon, separately and together.

[rpmaluki]

With Natalie now crossed over as well, I want Zod!Superman to eventually show up ... eventually.

@Superlad93, @Vordan, @JAK - At the beginning of the show, they did have Clark confronted by the reality of being a failure as a father because he was too busy, they can probably still carry that theme into the next season with Jon. This season was about being there for Jordan as he was going through the changes, it would be interesting to have Clark's efforts this season (really, a writing failure if we're being honest) have the unintended result of negligence for Jon. Shine the emotional spotlight on Jon now that Jordan is grown more well adjusted to himself.

[Superlad93]

As we've both said: from what we've come to know, it seems there was potentially a lot of shake-up in the writing this season, between Luthor turning into John Henry and who knows what else (possibly one son to two). At this point, though, they've got a season under their belt and some general sense of direction, and a little time (admittedly, not a lot) to look back at what they've done and make course corrections. Doesn't mean they will, and it's good that you and others are bringing this to a head to call attention to it to help ensure those corrections, I just think they've done well enough in most places that it can't be a blind spot forever. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but that remains to be seen. I just think that, as a for instance, the S&A writers would be more willing to look at their flaws/blind spots and correct than other recent Superman teams that shall remain nameless.

Okay, so the Lex into John Henry thing is actually not comparable to the one son into two things unfortunately.

This is because one of those things is a fundamental back-to-zero aspect of the show, and the other is part-- a large part granted-- of the season and the next. Basically Steel/Lex were never going to be on the poster, but Jon is. This means that if the plan wasn't to have two kids, and they sort of had to hodgepodge together something for for Jon to do this season, and it didn't turn out so well, that means the issue is on a structural level. And because that issue is on a structural level you'll need to basically rethink how the show works going forward, and I don't know if this team is really willing to do that just to accommodate Jon. Best I can hope for is that they're flat out forced to do so by the higher ups.

Just look at how much of a disconnect there is with Jon and the story around him. Clark is a really shitty dad to Jon a lot of the time, and basically has no moments alone with him that are about him, but the show doesn't call him on it. The show blames some outside factor or Jon himself. Or the show flat out forgets that it STARTED a plot with Jon, but later just gave it to Jordan wholesale. Jon spends a whole episode being the ONLY one to give a **** about Tag to the point where he asks about where they'll be taking him after. What does the show do when Tag comes back? Jon hardly even registers a reaction, and he has no screen time what so ever with this person he spent a whole episode being the only one to worry about. For whatever reason it's fucking Sarah and Jordan. Jon's ex teammates are who his current team will be playing in a big away game, and his ex friend is dating his ex gf. What does the do with all of this? Make up some late in the game out of nowhere stuff about Jordan being bullied by them, so now the game means everything to HIM, and Jon hardly has any reaction to any of this that isn't related to Jordan. Again, this show reads a whole lot better if Jordan is an only child and they just change his name to Jon.

But sure, if next season they genuinely feel that they can make the fundamental changes needed to make it so Jon isn't living in a pocket universe where no one seems to hear or care for him when it's not related to them, then sure, it could totally work. I'm not holding my breath though.

With Natalie now crossed over as well, I want Zod!Superman to eventually show up ... eventually.

@Superlad93, @Vordan, @JAK - At the beginning of the show, they did have Clark confronted by the reality of being a failure as a father because he was too busy, they can probably still carry that theme into the next season with Jon. This season was about being there for Jordan as he was going through the changes, it would be interesting to have Clark's efforts this season (really, a writing failure if we're being honest) have the unintended result of negligence for Jon. Shine the emotional spotlight on Jon now that Jordan is grown more well adjusted to himself.

I'd love to speculate, but this show kicks me in the teeth every single time I want to imagine anything worthwhile for Jon.

But I will say that regardless of the potential negative effects it'll have on Jordan's character, Jon needs powers to have any sort of weight on this show. Yes, yes, everyone wants to bring up "well he could be more like his mom" or "Lois doesn't need powers to have weight on the show", but frankly Jon isn't Lois. Lois was made to not have powers and still kick ass in unconventional ways, and frankly she owns that role in a special way that can't really be duplicated. I'm sorry, but you don't come to Superman comics or TV shows to see some normal ass kid shoot a gun. You just don't.

It's inherently counter to what most people came in looking for, and that's evidence by the fact that if you go on Elsass' twitter or read, watch, or listen to any interview on the show he's ever done, literally everyone is asking when the hell he's getting powers. Not only is it what you expect coming into the show about Superman's sons, but it's what you expect from the character that's already established to have powers in the comics. The showrunners are fighting against the power of a quick Google search in the year 2021. It's just baffling that this is how they're going about this, and I roll the sh!t out of my eyes every single time they have that kid pick up a got damn gun. Like, what is the actual idea/narrative you're pushing here with that?

I'll be done with this show next season if after a handful of episodes it doesn't show signs of improvement on this glaring issue. Hoechlin's a good Superman, and the same goes for Tulloch as a Lois, and it's nice having a Superman show to check out, but it's not nice enough and for me they're not enough of a draw for me to overlook this when it's the very first live action showing of a character I've grown to really love. Not since the first episode has this show blown me away enough to look past that even though it's still a solid show.

[RobinGA]

I think you had some good points here.

If you think back early into the show, there was a lot of criticism of
how they treated Lois in the first few episodes. Some of
the fandom wanted to see Lois do more journalistic things.
Show her typing on the computer, be more like Nancy Drew
that kind of thing. Over time, they found things for Lois to do, but
then they really had to or there would have been an uprising in the
streets.

I would argue that they still don't understand Lois. But they have a better
idea of non-super things for Lois to do. Lois is the real Head of Household.
Clark seems like he is just around for the ride.

I think they can solve the problem of Jon. But only if they rethink how they
are writing the non-super powered part of the show. I suspect they have only
a hazy idea of what rural life looks like. It becomes a problem when writing about
kids in high school. Jon's character can only be revealed if there are crisis events, problems
that he has to solve. It is not hard. But you only make it hard if Jon's
whole reason for existence is to try to run cover for the rest of his family.

[JAK]

With Natalie now crossed over as well, I want Zod!Superman to eventually show up ... eventually.

@Superlad93, @Vordan, @JAK - At the beginning of the show, they did have Clark confronted by the reality of being a failure as a father because he was too busy, they can probably still carry that theme into the next season with Jon. This season was about being there for Jordan as he was going through the changes, it would be interesting to have Clark's efforts this season (really, a writing failure if we're being honest) have the unintended result of negligence for Jon. Shine the emotional spotlight on Jon now that Jordan is grown more well adjusted to himself.

Honestly, it wouldn't be the first time a writing fault turned into a narrative arc. It happens a lot. And it can take a show time to find it's feet. I mean, what's there is good for me (clearly), but it wouldn't be that hard to make hey out of some this.

Okay, so the Lex into John Henry thing is actually not comparable to the one son into two things unfortunately.

I kinda meant that as one example that we know of - we also know about the writers' room shake-ups, but that means there likely were others. And I only brought it up to say that just about all first seasons are rocky on some level, and this one had at least a few things that became public enough to where we knew them... which usually means there's a lot more that we don't. There are a few things they'll have to be careful of for it to not become an issue.

Again, this show reads a whole lot better if Jordan is an only child and they just change his name to Jon.

But sure, if next season they genuinely feel that they can make the fundamental changes needed to make it so Jon isn't living in a pocket universe where no one seems to hear or care for him when it's not related to them, then sure, it could totally work. I'm not holding my breath though.

You make some good points - have you tried posting all this to the CWSuperman twitter page, etc? Having gone to conventions for TV shows, I can tell you they listen a lot more than movie people do. I would've loved to've had that kind of possibility when I was grinding my axe with the DCEU.

I'd love to speculate, but this show kicks me in the teeth every single time I want to imagine anything worthwhile for Jon.

But I will say that regardless of the potential negative effects it'll have on Jordan's character, Jon needs powers to have any sort of weight on this show. Yes, yes, everyone wants to bring up "well he could be more like his mom" or "Lois doesn't need powers to have weight on the show", but frankly Jon isn't Lois. Lois was made to not have powers and still kick ass in unconventional ways, and frankly she owns that role in a special way that can't really be duplicated. I'm sorry, but you don't come to Superman comics or TV shows to see some normal ass kid shoot a gun. You just don't.

It's inherently counter to what most people came in looking for, and that's evidence by the fact that if you go on Elsass' twitter or read, watch, or listen to any interview on the show he's ever done, literally everyone is asking when the hell he's getting powers. Not only is it what you expect coming into the show about Superman's sons, but it's what you expect from the character that's already established to have powers in the comics. The showrunners are fighting against the power of a quick Google search in the year 2021. It's just baffling that this is how they're going about this, and I roll the sh!t out of my eyes every single time they have that kid pick up a got damn gun. Like, what is the actual idea/narrative you're pushing here with that?

Yeah, I don't see any way that Jon's not getting powers. I get what they're going for with the "he's like Lois" stuff, and I can see them wanting to drag that out a bit before shifting... but there's no way he's not getting powers. And when he does, I think it'll be a "big deal" moment. Especially with everyone asking, that's too "low-hanging fruit" of a plot point for them not to do.

[RobinGA]

They had a whole season, lots of crisis, never once did they give Jon superpowers.
You would think that if they were going to show up it would be when held aloft with
an evil being controlling his brother with his hands choking him.

I suppose it is possible for that to just appear later. But it is hard to think they
are going down that path. I think they like that the jock doesn't have superpowers,
it is the social anxiety brother instead.

If Jon does get superpowers, it will be an interesting dynamic. Because Clark has pretty
much been ignoring him for a good year.

[Frontier]

I've seen some people online who actually prefer Jon not have powers or stay the team normal, although personally I prefer he not wield any guns for the foreseeable future.

[rpmaluki]

I am not a fan of Jon and guns, no, not even a little bit. They have to seriously consider giving him powers at least by mid season next if they cannot narratively do it at the start.

[9th.]

I KNEW IT!!!!!!! You can't fool me, I've been watching these types of shows too long. I just knew she was going to make an apperance. The only thing I didn't expect was Steel staying alive.

[9th.]

I've seen some people online who actually prefer Jon not have powers or stay the team normal, although personally I prefer he not wield any guns for the foreseeable future.

I am one of those people, I don't really care if he gets powers. It seems like the writers want him be the tech/weapons guy.