Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[Superlad93]

I don't think the show not utilizing Jon as well as they could makes it a poorly-thought out show when it's just one aspect of the series and they still managed to make Jon very likeable and endearing to the audience. I'm not disagreeing with some of the criticism, although I guess for me it's not a dealbreaker.

It's poorly thought out because as I explained before it reflects poorly on other characters but doesn't take the time to address that it's reflecting poorly on them. The show doesn't actually mean for Jordan to be a little asshole, but he is specifically because of his disregard for Jon's feelings most of the time. The show doesn't mean for Clark to be far less attentive to Jon than he is Jordan, but he is. There's a disconnect between what's being strongly implied because of what you're seeing with your own to eyes, and what the show feels like saying counts.

That's why it goes beyond just an issue with him. It's a structural issue that need to be addressed for the good of him and the characters around him.

[rpmaluki]

For me, the show is definitely solid, I love it. Jon's issues are just one part of the show. It doesn't ruin it for me but I hope they do better with his story. While I'm not explicitly asking for powers, I do want (insist) they give him a character arc. I'd sacrifice the Cushings if it meant more story for Jon. I don't know how I feel about Tegan other than curiousity, but I do know that I don't want both the boys' plot to center around girls first before everything else.

[Frontier]

It's poorly thought out because as I explained before it reflects poorly on other characters but doesn't take the time to address that it's reflecting poorly on them. The show doesn't actually mean for Jordan to be a little asshole, but he is specifically because of his disregard for Jon's feelings most of the time. The show doesn't mean for Clark to be far less attentive to Jon than he is Jordan, but he is. There's a disconnect between what's being strongly implied because of what you're seeing with your own to eyes, and what the show feels like saying counts.

That's why it goes beyond just an issue with him. It's a structural issue that need to be addressed for the good of him and the characters around him.

I can't 100% know the writers intentions but I don't think Jordan acting selfish and not caring about Jon's feelings in that moment weren't meant to read the way it did because it felt believable, at that moment, from a character perspective just like Clark focusing so much on Jordan after discovering his powers made sense and ended up with them missing a lot of the emotional problems Jon was going through that season.

[9th.]

I hope they give him a suit with less padding next season. It looks like a Halloween costume sometimes.

[manofsteel1979]

I hope they give him a suit with less padding next season. It looks like a Halloween costume sometimes.

Yeah.Also not a fan of the screen printed "S" shield. From a distance it looks ok but close up it looks kinda cheap.

Strangely enough the Fleisher inspired suit doesn't seem to suffer those issues.
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[Vordan]

I mean, at the moment, she's a Jon supporting character so Jon getting to know her and her backstory seems like a valid sub-plot from him unless it gets, like, hijacked by a crossover with The Flash.

I don't think the show not utilizing Jon as well as they could makes it a poorly-thought out show when it's just one aspect of the series and they still managed to make Jon very likeable and endearing to the audience. I'm not disagreeing with some of the criticism, although I guess for me it's not a dealbreaker.

The two having their own villains kind of coalesced into one villain here, so I'm curious to see how they'll handle it next season.

Next season I hope they keep the two separate. A “Superman” villain operating in Metropolis and a “Lois” villain operating in Smallville would be good. One big problem I foresee them having going forward is finding villains where it would make sense for them to be in Smallville. Unless they do Conduit, then they could do both again.

[Quinlan58]

I don't think they'll go back to Metropolis next season. Maybe at the very end (we have set-up for John Henry and now Natalie moving to Metropolis, since that's where John's sister lives), but for the time being I think they'll stay in Smallville.

As for villains... yeah, if I had to bet, I'd bet on Conduit or Zodman from JHI's Earth. I think they could start setting up Metallo if John Corben is the one to replace Sam as head of the DOD. Or keep the Lois connection and drama by making Lucy the successor. But most likely it'll be an Amanda Waller-type OC (if not Amanda Waller herself).

[Frontier]

Yeah, they've focused so much on Smallville and Lois didn't even mention going back to the Planet, so they're probably still going to be there for the foreseeable future. Of course Superman will probably be flying around more than just Smallville.

They said no Kryptonian next season so Zodman probably won't show up until season 3.

[Quinlan58]

Lois and Clark literally sold their Metropolis apartment (and then proceeded to use the money to save the local newpaper, in a moment that reminded us all we were watching a tv show). They're definitely not going back anytime soon.

[Frontier]

I still want to know what's going to happen to the planet...

[Vordan]

You guys misunderstand, I’m not saying the family moves back to Metropolis, I’m saying the overarching Superman villain operates in Metropolis. They’ve already mentioned Metropolis suffering from a “crime spree” due to Superman’s reduced presence. Rather than try to justify why Ultra-Humanite or Brainiac would be in Smallville, I’d simply have those two making their schemes in Metropolis.

So Clark has to split his time between Metropolis and Smallville to compensate.

[RobinGA]

I think we will know it when we see the new season.

But they talked about how Superman can go anywhere, so Metropolis is as good
a fit as anywhere.

As for Lois, we are back to the old days of the original Lois Lane book where she went
to solve mysteries, crime on her own. There is no reason why Lois can't take on
non-super powered foes that don't require Big Blue to swoop in to save her. I
would hope we get something more than her trying to sell advertising to local farmers.

[JAK]

I'm totally sympathetic towards that. I suppose my issue mainly boils down to the fact that THIS is a pretty big thing to drop the ball on, so it's glaring. Elsass' name is third in the credits yet his character has the least impact and story of all the main characters and even Lana's family. Once again, this isn't an issue if it's just one one son of Superman. The show tightens up considerably and doesn't miss a beat. For me, this is more than a rocky first season, but rather is a fundamental flaw of the show that's genuinely concerning.

I can get that - it's not the case for me since I know a LOT of shows that we jumped on after season one and went back and thought "wow, did this ever get better with time". Seasons 2-3 is usually where a show solidifies it's footing on what it's going to be. That can always shift (especially with writing shake-ups, see "Lois and Clark" there), but usually not.

I didn't know that. That said, I'm really not the type to pester creators. I know everyone works hard on these things, and there have to be factors that I'm not aware that are in play and make my armchair quarterbacking look dumb. If I can find a way to word it that's not belittling of the work these people have done then I'll do it. But right now that's really hard because it's such an absurd flaw that I can't see calling it anything other than underserving the character and actor, and a prime example of poor, poor planning.

Oh, that's easy. Make it an "I love the show and x,y,z are excellent and can't wait to see more, but I'm concerned about Jonathan, because it seems like he's getting forgotten about and doesn't have his own place in the show". And it's possible you'd get an answer, but if any group is going to at least listen to fan comment, it's TV. Especially CW - I can't tell you how much "The Vampire Diaries" changed from the original direction because fans were ADAMANT about certain aspects of the show. By the end, the fans were all but steering the ship. Fan-comment brought so many dead characters back, "the other side" became it's own narrative and had a season devoted to it.

Back in the day, if I'd had Snyder/Goyer/etc in front of me, I'd have definitely made my position clear - but in a way to try and get them to see my side. I definitely wouldn't have lit into him like I have on here, lol!

I hear what some people are saying about leaving him without powers, but this is genuinely not the character or circumstance to do it with. Once again, you'd be fighting the power of a quick Google search. Once a perspective fan of Jon in the show looks him up and sees that the comic version of him has powers they're going to either a) wonder why this version doesn't or b) now expect him to get them, as they wait to tell their friends "told ya so" the same way everyone that Googled Thanos got to do.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say "this is its own thing" but you're actively relying on at least some of the people to either already know or have done a search on comic Jon before watching the show so you can subvert it and go "ha! He's not the one with powers! Aren't we clever?" You're not because now I'm wondering why he doesn't or when he will. You should've switched the got damn names or made one of them adopted. It would be like Alex from Supergirl being Supergirl rather than Kara. Who is that for??

I do get all that, but at the same time I can understand why they gave one powers and one not (for now). The dynamic is something extra to explore - something they'll lose when both have them. This way, they play one, then the other - ratings and renewals permitting, of course.

But Natasha? She's very clearly the tech/weapons "guy". And she's far better suited to it in terms of both the narrative and the comics. She's a proven genius who helped John Henry build his suit, and she grew up in a world where she had learn to defend herself. Plus in the comics she's Steel.

What good would Jon being less adapt or less narratively right for the "tech/weapons guy" role do for his character while Nat is around? Just make him feel like shit again like with football and Jordan? What's the actual point here for him?

While not likely, it's possibly setup for what's to come: he was the popular football star with a girlfriend, now he's not. Then he wants to be more into tech, then gets shown up there, too. That's not too bad of a setup for a "finding yourself" narrative, really - especially if his relationship with the new girl ends up blowing up in his face. Just depends on what they do with it.

I hope that's the case. I remember even PKJ having some choice words for how absurd Clark's treatment of Jon was, and how he felt all but assured that Jon would get powers too. Obviously he's not "in on" anything, but he's a writer, so it's at least noteworthy to me that he thinks it's a no brainer too.

The issue writers have found themselves in is that if Jon gets powers to at best it's redundant, and at worst it totally reverses the dynamic back to where they started where Jordan felt less than and Jon was exceptional because chances seem quite good that Jon wouldn't just be physically good with his powers given his 14 years of physical activity at a naturally high level, but he also wouldn't be such a selfish little baby about his powers since time and time again he's shown to be so selfless and about doing the right thing.

The only thing I could think of would be to make his powers even more unstable and dangerous than Jordan's. As in to the point where you're hard pressed to see them as powers and more of a legit affliction. Like, Jordan's powers are "unstable", but not really, right? They're unstable for a day or so and then he gets a hang of them. And his physical powers are at such a low level that he'd have to actually try a bit to really hurt or kill someone.

But if you make it so Jon's powers turn on and off at random (like he's not physical strong or durable all the time like Jordan is), do things like give him seizures like Tag, and make football impossible for him? Then the new dynamic between the boys stays there. Plus maybe Jordan's bum ass can finally start helping Jon out, and maybe Clark might actually go "oh snap, Lois, when did we get another kid!?" Jon would finally be able to really relate to Jordan's mental issues in a sense because this would mirror the uncontrollable outburst. Maybe Sam and John Henry create some sort of drug that helps regulate him, but he's gotta take it regularly. In a sense Jordan would be physically gifted one that would comfort and walk Jon through the bad times like Jon did for him.

You could even roll the Natasha plot in pretty nicely. In the episode Jon and Lois learned about Natasha and the other Earth, Jon seemed to long for a bond with her saying "I really wish I could've met you, sis". You take that and you have Nat start out just as hateful of Clark as John Henry was, but you now add in that she resents the boys for taking her mom. Then she sees how dangerous Jon's condition is, and relates that back to an evil Superman. Add on the fact that Jon was forming a bond with her dad, and she'd be at odd with him in a dramatic way that is driven by his actions and character.

Plus, because of his powers being basically unusable...*sigh* you can still have him shoot your stupid guns when he's in danger or he wants to help. And you only have lucky flashes of him using his unstable powers to help so that Jordan's status as the kid with powers is left mostly intact. I think this would fit with the themes and ideas of the show.

I kinda see a different path than that. Right now, Jon's been helping Jordan with his powers. Crisis moments haven't given Jon powers like they did Jordan, so it's very likely the catalyst will come from something else - either something to do with X-Kryptonite or an intense dose of sun radiation or a whole host of other things.

The writers had said they don't want to repeat John Henry's story beats with Natalie, so it would make sense for the same to be true of Jon and Jordan. So, after milking the "I'm the human one" for what drama they can get from that, and Jon has been there with Jordan as he learns his powers... so when the moment comes, he already has a leg up on how to control them. And by the time they do that, it's not "resetting back to the beginning" so much as the two brothers being a team on a whole other level. I can easily see it as a massive triumphant moment. That "feels" (so far, anyway) more like what this show would do, to me.

But honestly, I'd be almost willing to bet money that, if the show lasts more than 3 seasons, Jon gets powers by season 5 if not before. He gets them now, yeah it's narrative doubling - he gets them in two seasons or later, and it'll be billed as a BIG DEAL.

Yeah.Also not a fan of the screen printed "S" shield. From a distance it looks ok but close up it looks kinda cheap.

Strangely enough the Fleisher inspired suit doesn't seem to suffer those issues.
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I agree. There are several ways to do the muscles better than what they have, and the S needs a change-up, too. I still think he should just keep the Fleischer suit on, he looks great in it.

[JAK]

You guys misunderstand, I’m not saying the family moves back to Metropolis, I’m saying the overarching Superman villain operates in Metropolis. They’ve already mentioned Metropolis suffering from a “crime spree” due to Superman’s reduced presence. Rather than try to justify why Ultra-Humanite or Brainiac would be in Smallville, I’d simply have those two making their schemes in Metropolis.

So Clark has to split his time between Metropolis and Smallville to compensate.

That'd be cool.

I also think it'd be kinda neat if an upcoming season was more internal, with a whole bunch of minor baddies complicating things they're trying to work through (as opposed to one larger villain for the whole season).

[Vordan]

That'd be cool.

I also think it'd be kinda neat if an upcoming season was more internal, with a whole bunch of minor baddies complicating things they're trying to work through (as opposed to one larger villain for the whole season).

There will be more “Killgraves” at the very least, so I’m assuming more one and done “villain of the week”. But that poses a risk that without an overarching season storyline, the stakes may not feel very severe.