Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[objectivewatcher2013]

What a fantastic show this has been so far. I know it's just three episodes, but unless it takes a major nosedive in quality, I'm in love.

Maybe I'm on a post-watching-high, but I think this might be the best Superman in almost a decade. Only thing coming close is the Superman comic run during Rebirth (with which this show is loosely based on).

Speaking of comics, I think this show highlights just how much I hate what Bendis did. Superman needs Clark Kent. Seeing Clark as a dad is great. The scene with Clark carrying the watercooler was so simple, but yet so endearing. It nailed the importance of Clark Kent in like 5 seconds.

THIS. Bendis ruined a wonderful thing.

[JAK]

I feel like all the emotional stuff for Lois mainly comes from her relationship with her father and his failings in that area, and that is what we need to see with Lois. We already know Clark's struggles but Lois at this stage hasn't been shown with any. Compare the father-daughter relationship to hers with the boys, she's more active, more present, or rather, she was the one more present with the boys so that relationship is for all intents and purposes secure and drama-less, as opposed to Clark whose secret the boys just learnt and are still learning the full ramifications of that revelation, there's a lot more meat in that story sadly. I also see potential with her and Jon, as the two (currently) non powdered members of the family, they can delve deeper there, so when Clark helps Jordan come to terms with having abilities, training him and all that Jonathan would bond with his mother (even more) as he finds his strengths in other areas that will help him stand head and shoulders with Jordan in the same way Clark and Lois are equals despite her being a regular human. I am happy with the show but the above is how I'd do "more" with Lois, through Jon and the general.

Speaking of, the show's setting also puts the spotlight more on Clark, too - they're in Smallville, living in his parents' house and surrounded by pieces (and one or two people) from his childhood. So that's going to naturally shift how the focus is placed. Other than Sam Lane - who usually shows up to speak to Superman, there really isn't anything that's Lois-centric that doesn't directly or indirectly involve Clark. Lois working at the local paper is certainly a step in the right direction, and hopefully they'll find other ways for her to establish her own identity in Smallville and that will help, but at least early on, it's harder to do. Not impossible and I'm not attempting to give excuses, just saying another thing that makes it that much harder for them to give her the focus she needs to co-lead in what's essentially a Clark-centric atmosphere.

[Celgress]

THIS. Bendis ruined a wonderful thing.

Bendis ruins everything these days I would expect or accept nothing less from him.

[9th.]

Just saw the preview for the next episode and it saddens me, Sam really only see's Clark as a tool and not a son. I was ecstatic when I wasn't a maniac in this but he's slowly turning back into an enemy of Clarks.

Also I've said this before and i'll say it again Jon just embodies all of Superman's good qualities, he's a good person even though he could very easily not be. As far as Jordan goes he's growing on me, he annoyed me pretty much the whole episode up until he apologized to Sarah's boyfriend.

[Nelliebly]

Speaking of, the show's setting also puts the spotlight more on Clark, too - they're in Smallville, living in his parents' house and surrounded by pieces (and one or two people) from his childhood. So that's going to naturally shift how the focus is placed. Other than Sam Lane - who usually shows up to speak to Superman, there really isn't anything that's Lois-centric that doesn't directly or indirectly involve Clark. Lois working at the local paper is certainly a step in the right direction, and hopefully they'll find other ways for her to establish her own identity in Smallville and that will help, but at least early on, it's harder to do. Not impossible and I'm not attempting to give excuses, just saying another thing that makes it that much harder for them to give her the focus she needs to co-lead in what's essentially a Clark-centric atmosphere.

And I would argue that’s a problem with the entire concept of the show tbh. I’m enjoying it a lot but they’ve basically abandoned Superman’s entire life outside of Smallville.

Still, even within this concept, there is way more to explore with Lois than what they are doing. Lois Lane had a LOT to explore on Smallville itself and she was very much based in SV for most of the series. For years she lived in that town. But that show did a better job of exploring her family and her feelings than this one has so far. The show cared about her feelings.

We keep hearing that Lois is a fish out of water here but they aren’t letting her express it. We see it through her job but no other lens. We hear that Clark was absent for years but it’s only through the lens of their kids. Meanwhile, the implication is that Lois has been shouldering the burden of raising their kids for over a decade but we never get to hear her talk about it. Which is crazy to me because this is a relatable problem for a lot of working mothers. It’s not uncommon for working mothers to shoulder the burden of child rearing Superman or no Superman. But the show isn’t interested in interrogating how this impacted her.

Is she lonely in Smallville? Does she feel like she gave up a lot for both her son and her husband’s happiness? Again who knows.

Sam Lane is obviously a point of contention but he’s been set up as an antagonist for Clark more than her. Did her mother die young from cancer as she did on Smallville? I’m guessing yes (?) but, again, not a word was mentioned about it even when Clark was burying his own mother. Not one line about how she does get it.

Lois has a sibling of the same sex that she often clashed with. You would think that’s relevant to relating to her kids but not one word about it. It’s as if her family history doesn’t matter or exist. This is a bad pattern.....

So I can’t excuse this just because the premise is in Smallville. The fact that we had a show literally called Smallville where she was only 18/19 that did more with her emotionally in her first guest starring episodes and revealed more about her history in 2004 remains damning. The show is fantastic and I’m loving it but it’s pretty clear that Nadria Tucker’s concerns and red flags about Lois’s treatment was spot on correct which makes the fact that Helbing fired her for speaking up even more troubling.

Again, I love the show. But they can do better and it’s time. They need to do better here or it’s a stain on the show. I know you believe you aren’t making excuses and I really appreciate how fair you always are to her but....it ::is:: an excuse. There is a lot more they could do here if they genuinely cared about her POV. They clearly don’t. It’s a problem. And if people don’t hold them accountable to fix this, they will not fix it. Sexism is pervasive in these writers’ rooms with male showrunners and majority of the writers being men. They aren’t trying to be offensive but it just doesn’t occur to them to give her the same POV. That’s still a form of sexism. :/

[Nelliebly]

Just saw the preview for the next episode and it saddens me, Sam really only see's Clark as a tool and not a son. I was ecstatic when I wasn't a maniac in this but he's slowly turning back into an enemy of Clarks.

Also I've said this before and i'll say it again Jon just embodies all of Superman's good qualities, he's a good person even though he could very easily not be. As far as Jordan goes he's growing on me, he annoyed me pretty much the whole episode up until he apologized to Sarah's boyfriend.

Jon is Lois’s son too and any discussion about where his good qualities come from should include her particularly given she is the one who’s been set up as more of Jon’s mirror on this show—not Clark.

And I would argue that Sam Lane being a villain is, again, more of an emotional gut punch to Lois than anyone given he’s her father. Not that the show remembers or cares.

It’s all about Clark all the time.

[Agent Z]

And I would argue that’s a problem with the entire concept of the show tbh. I’m enjoying it a lot but they’ve basically abandoned Superman’s entire life outside of Smallville.

Still, even within this concept, there is way more to explore with Lois than what they are doing. Lois Lane had a LOT to explore on Smallville itself and she was very much based in SV for most of the series. For years she lived in that town. But that show did a better job of exploring her family and her feelings than this one has so far. The show cared about her feelings.

We keep hearing that Lois is a fish out of water here but they aren’t letting her express it. We see it through her job but no other lens. We hear that Clark was absent for years but it’s only through the lens of their kids. Meanwhile, the implication is that Lois has been shouldering the burden of raising their kids for over a decade but we never get to hear her talk about it. Which is crazy to me because this is a relatable problem for a lot of working mothers. It’s not uncommon for working mothers to shoulder the burden of child rearing Superman or no Superman. But the show isn’t interested in interrogating how this impacted her.

Is she lonely in Smallville? Does she feel like she gave up a lot for both her son and her husband’s happiness? Again who knows.

Sam Lane is obviously a point of contention but he’s been set up as an antagonist for Clark more than her. Did her mother die young from cancer as she did on Smallville? I’m guessing yes (?) but, again, not a word was mentioned about it even when Clark was burying his own mother. Not one line about how she does get it.

Lois has a sibling of the same sex that she often clashed with. You would think that’s relevant to relating to her kids but not one word about it. It’s as if her family history doesn’t matter or exist. This is a bad pattern.....

So I can’t excuse this just because the premise is in Smallville. The fact that we had a show literally called Smallville where she was only 18/19 that did more with her emotionally in her first guest starring episodes and revealed more about her history in 2004 remains damning. The show is fantastic and I’m loving it but it’s pretty clear that Nadria Tucker’s concerns and red flags about Lois’s treatment was spot on correct which makes the fact that Helbing fired her for speaking up even more troubling.

Again, I love the show. But they can do better and it’s time. They need to do better here or it’s a stain on the show. I know you believe you aren’t making excuses and I really appreciate how fair you always are to her but....it ::is:: an excuse. There is a lot more they could do here if they genuinely cared about her POV. They clearly don’t. It’s a problem. And if people don’t hold them accountable to fix this, they will not fix it. Sexism is pervasive in these writers’ rooms with male showrunners and majority of the writers being men. They aren’t trying to be offensive but it just doesn’t occur to them to give her the same POV. That’s still a form of sexism. :/

I do understand your concerns. I think they've been planting the seeds for something for Lois to do (Morgan Edge is pretty much set up as her main antagonist). I guess all we can do is wait and see.

[Frontier]

Just saw the preview for the next episode and it saddens me, Sam really only see's Clark as a tool and not a son. I was ecstatic when I wasn't a maniac in this but he's slowly turning back into an enemy of Clarks.

Also I've said this before and i'll say it again Jon just embodies all of Superman's good qualities, he's a good person even though he could very easily not be. As far as Jordan goes he's growing on me, he annoyed me pretty much the whole episode up until he apologized to Sarah's boyfriend.

I don't think he just sees Clark as a tool. I think he might be dangerously close to viewing him as just an asset, for the world if not for the government, but he does seem to appreciate what Clark does as Superman.

I think he might play an antagonistic role but I don't see him becoming an out-and-out enemy or villain on this show.

[rpmaluki]

And I would argue that’s a problem with the entire concept of the show tbh. I’m enjoying it a lot but they’ve basically abandoned Superman’s entire life outside of Smallville.

Still, even within this concept, there is way more to explore with Lois than what they are doing. Lois Lane had a LOT to explore on Smallville itself and she was very much based in SV for most of the series. For years she lived in that town. But that show did a better job of exploring her family and her feelings than this one has so far. The show cared about her feelings.

We keep hearing that Lois is a fish out of water here but they aren’t letting her express it. We see it through her job but no other lens. We hear that Clark was absent for years but it’s only through the lens of their kids. Meanwhile, the implication is that Lois has been shouldering the burden of raising their kids for over a decade but we never get to hear her talk about it. Which is crazy to me because this is a relatable problem for a lot of working mothers. It’s not uncommon for working mothers to shoulder the burden of child rearing Superman or no Superman. But the show isn’t interested in interrogating how this impacted her.

Is she lonely in Smallville? Does she feel like she gave up a lot for both her son and her husband’s happiness? Again who knows.

Sam Lane is obviously a point of contention but he’s been set up as an antagonist for Clark more than her. Did her mother die young from cancer as she did on Smallville? I’m guessing yes (?) but, again, not a word was mentioned about it even when Clark was burying his own mother. Not one line about how she does get it.

Lois has a sibling of the same sex that she often clashed with. You would think that’s relevant to relating to her kids but not one word about it. It’s as if her family history doesn’t matter or exist. This is a bad pattern.....

So I can’t excuse this just because the premise is in Smallville. The fact that we had a show literally called Smallville where she was only 18/19 that did more with her emotionally in her first guest starring episodes and revealed more about her history in 2004 remains damning. The show is fantastic and I’m loving it but it’s pretty clear that Nadria Tucker’s concerns and red flags about Lois’s treatment was spot on correct which makes the fact that Helbing fired her for speaking up even more troubling.

Again, I love the show. But they can do better and it’s time. They need to do better here or it’s a stain on the show. I know you believe you aren’t making excuses and I really appreciate how fair you always are to her but....it ::is:: an excuse. There is a lot more they could do here if they genuinely cared about her POV. They clearly don’t. It’s a problem. And if people don’t hold them accountable to fix this, they will not fix it. Sexism is pervasive in these writers’ rooms with male showrunners and majority of the writers being men. They aren’t trying to be offensive but it just doesn’t occur to them to give her the same POV. That’s still a form of sexism. :/

I will say it's a bit unfair to compare the two, Smallville is a finished product that we look back and are able to make judgement on characterisation and POV, this show is only three episodes in and to be frank, that Lois didn't have much of an emotional arc the first season she was introduced. She came looking into her cousin's death and that was resolved after just two episodes and spends the rest of the season just floating around for no real reason. I'd go so far as to say we know less of that Lois in her first season that this new Lois. We know how this Lois felt about leaving everything for Smallville, we know she feels like an outsider in Smallville because her reporter nose is poking in places that rattles the people of Smallville. Now if we were talking about the Teri's Lois in the first few episodes of that show, I'd be willing to agree.

[Vordan]

I don't think he just sees Clark as a tool. I think he might be dangerously close to viewing him as just an asset, for the world if not for the government, but he does seem to appreciate what Clark does as Superman.

I think he might play an antagonistic role but I don't see him becoming an out-and-out enemy or villain on this show.

They are clearly on course to be on opposite sides, but I don’t think Sam will be as maniacally evil as he has been in cases where he was a villain. And given that he knows Superman is his son-in-law I don’t think he’ll want to kill him.

[Frontier]

They are clearly on course to be on opposite sides, but I don’t think Sam will be as maniacally evil as he has been in cases where he was a villain. And given that he knows Superman is his son-in-law I don’t think he’ll want to kill him.

That and he has Lois and two grandkids he has to think about now.

[Phoenixx9]

While most Superman shows are not my cup of tea, I really like this show! All of the different elements really play well together.

So far, I feel like each scene is well-paced and timed. Then all of a sudden, the show is over as the entire hour has elapsed! (Sign of a Happy Fan!)

I hope it continues with the same quality.

[Vordan]

Finally watched the episode!

-Yep that bridge scene definitely reminded you that this is a CW show, but I still liked that ending where he waves at the Chinese boatman. Hope the budget holds up though.
-Loved the fight scene with Subjekt, it’s nice to see Arctic breath get more love, it’s been really underutilized compared to heat vision in recent years. That said I’m sorta disappointed that they just used Subjekt as a throwaway mook, but given this is Subjekt-11 and not Subjekt-13 maybe they intend to bring in a more traditional take still
-Related super hard to Sarah Cushing and Lana’s talk in the bedroom
-I like that Lois is driving the Morgan Edge investigation, she’s got her own plotline and is exploring it. Also I love that she’s dismissive of puff pieces and doesn’t want to write them. Also lmao at Lois being completely unphased by her car getting torched because it wasn’t the first time it happened
-This episode actually really made me like Jordan more. He’s still immature and overemotional but you see his decency with how he apologizes to Sarah’s ex and offers his hand instead of being a dick
-Jon remains extremely likeable, I seriously hope the poor kid gets powers after all the crap he’s gone through. Even though Jon is definitely his father’s son you see that he’s a lot like Lois too. He’s not happy about living in Smallville, he wishes they could leave as seen by his comment at the diner about how he didn’t want to completely change his life until they moved to Smallville. Feel like at some point there needs to be a scene where Jon talks about how miserable he is with either Clark or Lois. I want to get the “Smallville sucks and I’m not enjoying my time here” perspective since Jordan is the one who is really thriving here, Clark is reconnecting with his roots, and Lois is managing to still be Lois. Give us the perspective on Smallville from someone whose life is worse off for moving there
-Love Clark being a coach, let’s us still get Hoechlin playing the multiple identities angle in a cool way

I do wonder how all the plot lines are going to connect together. You’ve got Captain Luthor, Morgan Edge, Jordan & Jon’s school stuff, it’s all interesting but it’s all disconnected. If that’s the plan so be it, but I can’t see Edge having people with powers and Luthor’s deal with Clark not being related in some way.

[daBronzeBomma]

After watching 3 episodes of Tyler Hoechlin's Kal in SUPERMAN AND LOIS (SAL) and comparing them to his Kal in SUPERGIRL ... I'm getting the impression this might be actually be a different enough version so as to be a different character altogether.

The differences between Tyler's two versions are even more pronounced than the differences between Brandon Routh's Kal in SUPERMAN RETURNS vs Brandon Routh's Kal in the CW's "Crisis On Infinite Earths" crossover.

Zero mention of Kara in SAL. Zero mention of Lex Luthor in SAL (I think). Zero mention of the other Arrowverse characters in SAL. Zero mention of any of the previous CW events in SAL.

I'm starting to think that SAL used the Crisis crossover to quietly disconnect itself from the Arrowverse even before it's debut. The Super sons make absolutely no sense timeline-wise, unless SAL is still set in the CW universe, but is actually 14 years into their future.

Which it could be, and that could work.

Or this could be yet another Earth altogether where none of the CW SUPERGIRL stuff applies at all. Or some weird 3rd option.

What do you think?

[Vordan]

It’s still Earth Prime but the Crisis changed the timeline. Instead of having one kid they had twins and they had them earlier. Crisis changed the continuity of the Arrowverse