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  1. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't about the rest of you, but Tulloch is fast becoming one of my favorite portrayals of Lois Lane.

    Looks like they're going for a Smallville Season One Redux in regards to the Shuster Cave bit, which I don't mind too much. I can't imagine the writers are going to over-do it as much as the writers on the old show did.
    She’s doing a fantastic job. She has a lot to swagger balanced with plenty of soul. She’s extremely attractive but it’s also clear her mind and wit is her most beautiful attribute. I love her.

    I think the mines will be fine so long as they don’t overdo it with “freaks of the week.”

  2. #647
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    People keep asking Hoechlin and Tulloch about their real life bond in interviews because it’s apparent to people how close they are.

    They admit they text each other pretty much all day. He said he calls her all the time if she’s not with him that day on set. Even when they aren’t on set together they do a “check in” just to talk.

    Elizabeth is obviously happily married to David Giuntoli and David has been very active in promoting the show so it’s obviously not an inappropriate relationship. She has a husband. It’s also Covid right now so the cast is very limited in who they can see. Tyler mentioned in an interview that he’s basically stuck in Vancouver. Bitsie is his family right now.

    But I do think their closeness is very much translating to the screen in a way that’s very very convincing.

    And, honestly, thank god they get along so well. Anyone who lived through Lois and Clark Season 4 knows what happens when two co-stars who work together as much as Lois and Superman are required to do have a falling out. It’s very good for the health of the show that these two like each other so much.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 03-18-2021 at 09:29 AM.

  3. #648
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    I do think Lois' qualm about her husband is one of the most realistic and best renditions of that specific conflict (i.e. Superman being somewhere else when someone needs him). With all of the times I've seen someone blaming Superman for not being there for them, it is nice to see someone be reasonable with it (far too many times I've had to exclaim "sorry Superman is out saving the entire planet and couldn't get to your personal problem in time").

  4. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    I do think Lois' qualm about her husband is one of the most realistic and best renditions of that specific conflict (i.e. Superman being somewhere else when someone needs him). With all of the times I've seen someone blaming Superman for not being there for them, it is nice to see someone be reasonable with it (far too many times I've had to exclaim "sorry Superman is out saving the entire planet and couldn't get to your personal problem in time").
    Yeah because he is basically begging her to be mad at him. He wants her to let it out and she’s trying to keep it in. And it’s not good for her to keep it in—not in a healthy marriage.

    All she really needed was for him to just make sure to remind her that he loves her. That was all she needed to hear.

  5. #650
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Sorry for missing a few days - hurt my leg and I've been resting it. Anyway!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    And I would argue that’s a problem with the entire concept of the show tbh. I’m enjoying it a lot but they’ve basically abandoned Superman’s entire life outside of Smallville.
    I agree with that. Their life was certainly in transition (even moreso than we realized in the first episode) and Smallville would be the "easy" place to go (both for story since viewers would know it and in-universe it's likely cheaper to live there with Clark, and then Lois, out of a job at the Planet), but it does mean it requires more effort to place focus evenly and properly. And that was my thinking when I posted that, even if (on re-reading my post) it doesn't come off that way. As you say below, it's already been done successfully in the past, and hopefully the pressure and knowledge that eyes are on them will help move things in the right direction.

    Still, even within this concept, there is way more to explore with Lois than what they are doing. Lois Lane had a LOT to explore on Smallville itself and she was very much based in SV for most of the series. For years she lived in that town. But that show did a better job of exploring her family and her feelings than this one has so far. The show cared about her feelings.

    We keep hearing that Lois is a fish out of water here but they aren’t letting her express it. We see it through her job but no other lens. We hear that Clark was absent for years but it’s only through the lens of their kids. Meanwhile, the implication is that Lois has been shouldering the burden of raising their kids for over a decade but we never get to hear her talk about it. Which is crazy to me because this is a relatable problem for a lot of working mothers. It’s not uncommon for working mothers to shoulder the burden of child rearing Superman or no Superman. But the show isn’t interested in interrogating how this impacted her.

    Is she lonely in Smallville? Does she feel like she gave up a lot for both her son and her husband’s happiness? Again who knows.
    Definitely agreed. As for what she gave up, it's looking like - job-wise - not so much. They both made several passing lines about that (Clark says he "hasn't seen that look in your eyes in awhile", and then the re-write suggest that she hasn't been happy at the paper for some time). But we don't hear about friends, etc, and even if they weren't happy at the Planet before, she'd been there quite a while, so a sense of that personal history (beyond a few lines) and sense of a "life era" ending for her should be explored. It seems like we're getting more of (some of) that as the episodes go on, likely reflected with Jonathan's own, but I'm hoping we see more of that on just her own terms as this goes on.

    Sam Lane is obviously a point of contention but he’s been set up as an antagonist for Clark more than her. Did her mother die young from cancer as she did on Smallville? I’m guessing yes (?) but, again, not a word was mentioned about it even when Clark was burying his own mother. Not one line about how she does get it.
    Yeah - that was weird to me, too - especially not mentioning her mother in the confrontation with Sam.

    Lois has a sibling of the same sex that she often clashed with. You would think that’s relevant to relating to her kids but not one word about it. It’s as if her family history doesn’t matter or exist. This is a bad pattern.....
    I'm wondering if Lucy exists in this. Same with Jimmy, come to think of it. And between that and not mentioning other CW shows... I think there may be a connection. It seems like, on a "soft" level, they want this to be it's own thing - and mentioning either Jimmy or Lucy would change that. It could also be that they don't quite know yet what they want to do with either one of them, and are waiting for audience reaction to make a decision. This is all inference, but that would make the most sense.

    So I can’t excuse this just because the premise is in Smallville. The fact that we had a show literally called Smallville where she was only 18/19 that did more with her emotionally in her first guest starring episodes and revealed more about her history in 2004 remains damning. The show is fantastic and I’m loving it but it’s pretty clear that Nadria Tucker’s concerns and red flags about Lois’s treatment was spot on correct which makes the fact that Helbing fired her for speaking up even more troubling.

    Again, I love the show. But they can do better and it’s time. They need to do better here or it’s a stain on the show. I know you believe you aren’t making excuses and I really appreciate how fair you always are to her but....it ::is:: an excuse. There is a lot more they could do here if they genuinely cared about her POV. They clearly don’t. It’s a problem. And if people don’t hold them accountable to fix this, they will not fix it. Sexism is pervasive in these writers’ rooms with male showrunners and majority of the writers being men. They aren’t trying to be offensive but it just doesn’t occur to them to give her the same POV. That’s still a form of sexism. :/
    You're right in that I don't believe I am, or at least it wasn't my intention. I'm just pointing out that it's going to take more work on the writers' part since the setting is clark-centric and it's hard for tv writers to be "not-lazy" with such low-hanging fruit there and that compounds the problem/potential problem. I could/should have been more clear on that, though, and that's on me. (I'm just on a high to have show that doesn't make me want to punch walls yet so I'm more measured in my words, lol) But your pointing out Smallville shows that it certainly can be done, and should be. You're also (not that I need to tell you this, but still) very right on the sexism in many writers' rooms, and if they haven't corrected this asap, they should be filleted for it. And "needing Clark come in to speak for two female reporters at the vote count thing and not speaking up when he doesn't" would honestly be a good place to point to as problematic (unless it's majorly explained in specific ways, which I'm not expecting).

    Besides, I want more of her pov, anyway - and not just because I watch this show with *my* Lois.

    Here's my perspective, overall: the controversy and what came to light about the writing, while horrible that it is/was like that, is very good that it was made public. That's (hopefully) going to mean more scrutiny in that regard because people will be looking for examples of it in the show, and pressure is likely on them to make changes in an attempt to "disprove" or "correct" that narrative/reality about the writers. That gives a much better chance for things to get better than if none of that had come out. The show (again, hopefully) will be better for it. When everything came out, iirc, they were part-way into the season at least. Assuming that's the case, we'll know more of the effects of this if there's a shift one way or another mid-season or end of season, at the latest season 2. By then, it'll be "ok, you had a chance to fix this, let's go already", and then it'll be open season afaic.

    Maybe we can push them to hire Louise Simonson, if she'd do it? I can dream, lol
    Last edited by JAK; 03-18-2021 at 05:45 PM.
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  6. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    After watching 3 episodes of Tyler Hoechlin's Kal in SUPERMAN AND LOIS (SAL) and comparing them to his Kal in SUPERGIRL ... I'm getting the impression this might be actually be a different enough version so as to be a different character altogether.

    The differences between Tyler's two versions are even more pronounced than the differences between Brandon Routh's Kal in SUPERMAN RETURNS vs Brandon Routh's Kal in the CW's "Crisis On Infinite Earths" crossover.

    What do you think?
    Yeah, this is definitely different, and in a great way. I also had a problem with him jobbing to Kara - much like (some of) Snyder's interpretation, if you look at it on paper it should be fine from a character standpoint, but the presentation just left a horrible taste. This is leaps and bounds (or maybe just the single bound over a tall building, lol) better. The show still has further to go (see the Lois discussion above), but it's already better than what we've had. Superman should absolutely be about supporting and raising Kara up, it's in his character - but that can be done without the presentation belittling Superman.

    One reason I was optimistic about this show was that, with Clark being a main character and not a supporting one, they'd have to quit doing that. But this has far exceeded my expectations.

    I'm also wondering if, assuming this is still CW-main continuity, that this isn't set a bit in the future? Maybe we'll get to see Lois, Clark, Jon and Jordan a bit younger in crossover shows. That would be kinda cool, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    One thing that is standing out to me is how badly both Lois and Clark are treating Jonathan as opposed to Jordan. I mean they are completely over reliant on him being compassionate and willing to give up personal happiness and success FOR Jordan. And it is obvious.

    From only taking Jordan to the Fortress and not Jonathan. I mean why? He's your son too why wouldn't he want to go spend time at the fortress and learn about Krypton etc.? More about his father? It didn't make sense to me.

    Its clearly going to come to a head at some point he even mentions some of the frustration to Clark and Clark just says you still can step up on the football team even with your brother there. That's all?

    It is so obvious that they are taking him for granted and it is going to blow up eventually or he will have to develop powers too to get "noticed".

    The whole dynamic is just one thing thats been bothering me the whole show so far. I can't decide if I just don't like how obvious that storyline is. It isn't subtle that they treat them differently and they are both smart enough to know that.
    I think a lot of it is that, as others said, Jon has been the stable+happy one for a long time. Not only that, with Jordan having had troubles for so long and that being their focus... they're so relieved that he's happier and focused on that, that they aren't seeing what's happening with Jon. That's absolutely coming to a head. As the saying goes, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't about the rest of you, but Tulloch is fast becoming one of my favorite portrayals of Lois Lane.
    Abso-freaking-lutely. Just reading the posts she made after it was announced that she'd gotten the part, I knew she'd be perfect for Lois. And quite honestly, her husband would make an amazing Superman, too.
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  7. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    She’s doing a fantastic job. She has a lot to swagger balanced with plenty of soul. She’s extremely attractive but it’s also clear her mind and wit is her most beautiful attribute. I love her.

    I think the mines will be fine so long as they don’t overdo it with “freaks of the week.”
    Yeah, I'm not too worried given that they've only got 13 episodes to work with and there's plenty of other storylines at play, unlike "Smallville", which only had the meteor freaks, Lana having poor taste in boyfriends, and the Lex/Lionel rivalry to stretch out over more than 20 episodes. In comparison, Superman & Lois is juggling a lot more stuff.

  8. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    I do think Lois' qualm about her husband is one of the most realistic and best renditions of that specific conflict (i.e. Superman being somewhere else when someone needs him). With all of the times I've seen someone blaming Superman for not being there for them, it is nice to see someone be reasonable with it (far too many times I've had to exclaim "sorry Superman is out saving the entire planet and couldn't get to your personal problem in time").
    The writing in that scene was great and both Tulloch and Hocelin acted the hell out of it.

  9. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Yeah - that was weird to me, too - especially not mentioning her mother in the confrontation with Sam.

    I'm wondering if Lucy exists in this. Same with Jimmy, come to think of it. And between that and not mentioning other CW shows... I think there may be a connection. It seems like, on a "soft" level, they want this to be it's own thing - and mentioning either Jimmy or Lucy would change that. It could also be that they don't quite know yet what they want to do with either one of them, and are waiting for audience reaction to make a decision. This is all inference, but that would make the most sense.
    I was surprised Lois never mentioned Lucy and that she wasn't the only one who had to suffer from Sam's parenting (or lack there of), given usually Lucy gets hit with it harder than Lois.

    Almost makes me want to see Lois relate to the boys' sibling dynamic because of how she was as a big sister to Lucy growing up.

  10. #655
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I was surprised Lois never mentioned Lucy and that she wasn't the only one who had to suffer from Sam's parenting (or lack there of), given usually Lucy gets hit with it harder than Lois.

    Almost makes me want to see Lois relate to the boys' sibling dynamic because of how she was as a big sister to Lucy growing up.
    I may be totally off in my estimation of possibilities, but I'm hoping that (*if* what I'm wondering is right) we see/hear from/more about Lucy as they figure out which way to go with her character.
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  11. #656
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    Do we know if they retcon’d Lucy out with Crisis? I mean I don’t see why they would, but you never know.
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  12. #657
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    Since diversity is a hot topic these days, I am surprised they hired a normal size actor for Killgrave and not a little person.
    John Byrne art for Killgrave, SUPERMAN #19 Vol 2.

    DoctorKillgrave.jpg

  13. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Do we know if they retcon’d Lucy out with Crisis? I mean I don’t see why they would, but you never know.
    We actually don't know yet. I just find it interesting that we haven't seen or heard anything about either Lucy or Jimmy, which seems like it could be (I stress could be) a pattern or a signal that (at the very least) they're not sure which direction to go and they're hedging their bets.
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  14. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    We actually don't know yet. I just find it interesting that we haven't seen or heard anything about either Lucy or Jimmy, which seems like it could be (I stress could be) a pattern or a signal that (at the very least) they're not sure which direction to go and they're hedging their bets.
    I bet you are right. Saving it perhaps for a story beat down the road.

    JAK, I’m sorry you weren’t feeling well but glad to hear you are doing better.

    I actually felt like some of my concerns were addressed in the writing for Lois this past week. I wrote my thoughts on it a page back. We still have a ways to go in giving her equal POV but I thought this last episode was a great first step.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Do we know if they retcon’d Lucy out with Crisis? I mean I don’t see why they would, but you never know.
    I'm fairly certain she got mentioned in the recent episode but maybe I'm misremembering.

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