Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[Vordan]

It’s still a CW show. Dread it, run from it, the love triangle still arrives

But in all seriousness I’m not sure if they will actually have the boys fight over Sarah. I sure hope not.

[Sam]

Maybe they should bring in Kathy as a love interest for Jon. I think Cobb has appeared a couple times after all.

[Superlad93]

Maybe they should bring in Kathy as a love interest for Jon. I think Cobb has appeared a couple times after all.

Cobb has shown up twice with speaking roles, and was named both times, and given how much of a big deal that family was in the comics I'm struggling to see it as just a one-off nod.

That said, given what and who this show prioritizes, and the trend of Jordan having the lion's share of Jon's stories grafted onto him (with his own unique aspects (having mental health issues) being pushed into the back) I'm, at this point at least, not convinced any connection with Kathy won't be grafted onto Jordan too.

It's actually just now hitting me that Jordan is to Jon what Kara was to Clark before Superman & Lois.

And the thing is, I'm not against an alternate take at all. I honestly don't care if Jordan uses all the plot points from kid Jon's run. But I do care about the lopsided focus, and what is feeling more and more like the need to eventually turn Jon into a bad person in need of some redemption. I'd soften up quite a bit on that last point if it felt like we were getting as much focus with Jon as we are Jordan.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Wherever they are going with Jordan and Sara, I suggest they get their faster. One of the weakest aspects of Smallville was the Clark/Lana relationship. Even the creators admit they stretched a 3 season arc to 6 years and regret it in hindsight. So learn from that guys.

Jon joining the military could be fun.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Cobb has shown up twice with speaking roles, and was named both times, and given how much of a big deal that family was in the comics I'm struggling to see it as just a one-off nod.

That said, given what and who this show prioritizes, and the trend of Jordan having the lion's share of Jon's stories grafted onto him (with his own unique aspects (having mental health issues) being pushed into the back) I'm, at this point at least, not convinced any connection with Kathy won't be grafted onto Jordan too.

It's actually just now hitting me that Jordan is to Jon what Kara was to Clark before Superman & Lois.

And the thing is, I'm not against an alternate take at all. I honestly don't care if Jordan uses all the plot points from kid Jon's run. But I do care about the lopsided focus, and what is feeling more and more like the need to eventually turn Jon into a bad person in need of some redemption. I'd soften up quite a bit on that last point if it felt like we were getting as much focus with Jon as we are Jordan.

I don't think it's so much that they're grafting elements of comics Jon onto Jordan, but rather that they've divided comics Jon into two characters and added new elements to both. TV Jon may have gotten the name, but he's a very, very different character. He's got the optimism and easy-going nature while his brother got the angst. Clearly, they're both getting powers.

[Sam]

I don't think it's so much that they're grafting elements of comics Jon onto Jordan, but rather that they've divided comics Jon into two characters and added new elements to both. TV Jon may have gotten the name, but he's a very, very different character. He's got the optimism and easy-going nature while his brother got the angst. Clearly, they're both getting powers.

Yeah, I agree. While I definitely see some of comics Jon in Jordan, I also see a lot of him in TV Jon. I see absolutely no reason why Kathy couldn't be Jon's romantic interest. He needs something to make Smallville appeal to him. Kathy could be that connection for him.

[Superlad93]

I don't think it's so much that they're grafting elements of comics Jon onto Jordan, but rather that they've divided comics Jon into two characters and added new elements to both. TV Jon may have gotten the name, but he's a very, very different character. He's got the optimism and easy-going nature while his brother got the angst. Clearly, they're both getting powers.

It's not really mutually excusive. The same could be said about Clark and Kara, but it doesn't change that large aspects of characters whole deal are directly lifted from Clark. But with Jordan it's down to even the iconography like the heat vision as the first big display of power, his whole look, a budding romance with his small town not-Lana (who is now only one degree of separation away from being Lana), and the power instability.

Jordan, like Kara before him, obviously brings his own spin on these beats, but like Kara taking a lot of Clark's firsts for the show, it's still taking away firsts. And I get it in part because Jon is still relatively new and thus more flexible, has a whole other take to pull from in the Bendis era and beyond (and that *seems* to be the idea?), and since he's an established character it's more fun for a writer to subvert and mark out their own take before getting to where they need to get to (see Wally from Flash).

Ultimately my real issue comes down to the focus being lopsided between the boys. Similar to his mom, Jon's perspective isn't as well explored as Jordan's. And if there is a turn to the dark and a need for redemption, then Jon's been brewing in the background rather than having us follow along at least close to inside his head like Jordan. Like, Jon gets dumped by his might-as-well-be-imaginary girlfriend and, hilariously enough, it's treated as a sidebar to Jordan finally getting a date with Sarah...in the same scene! There is no greater example of the lopsided focus than that moment. I'm not asking to know this young lady's favorite food or movie (and I'm no fool. The juxtaposition of Jordan's first potential gf next to the end of Jon's already established relationship is clear), but a getting a scene or two where he talks on the phone or video chat with her and vents a bit in a similar (but obviously less substantial way because Sarah is main supporting cast) way Jordan gets to with Sarah could've gone a long way.

But as it stands, this just felt *exclusively* like another kick to the shins that Jon just has to deal with, and that feels like the main idea of it: "how much can this kid deal with and still be as good as he is?" That's ALL we seem to get for him, and it feels like it's setting him up as a foil. And that (along with little ******* remarks like "he's been popular his whole life, he'll be fine") makes Jordan having Jon's plot points grafted onto him all the more glaring and upsetting.

[Starrius]

I mean, assuming Edge is ousted from the Planet by the end of the season, Lois might go back while Clark remains a stay-at-home dad.

Unless Lois feels like she can still accomplish stuff at the Smallville paper.

I think the issues you have with the show are more of a personal taste thing than actual flaws (which is fine), because I think on the whole the show is handling its various aspects fairly well.

What I notice a lot is that a lot of people will express their personal taste things as actual flaws.
If they don't like something/someone, they have the view that there is something wrong with them even though there are other people that do like them.
That goes with everything in life

I am enjoying Superman and Lois a lot more than I thought.
I like that they are a married couple with kids.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's not really mutually excusive. The same could be said about Clark and Kara, but it doesn't change that large aspects of characters whole deal are directly lifted from Clark. But with Jordan it's down to even the iconography like the heat vision as the first big display of power, his whole look, a budding romance with his small town not-Lana (who is now only one degree of separation away from being Lana), and the power instability.

Jordan, like Kara before him, obviously brings his own spin on these beats, but like Kara taking a lot of Clark's firsts for the show, it's still taking away firsts. And I get it in part because Jon is still relatively new and thus more flexible, has a whole other take to pull from in the Bendis era and beyond (and that *seems* to be the idea?), and since he's an established character it's more fun for a writer to subvert and mark out their own take before getting to where they need to get to (see Wally from Flash).

Ultimately my real issue comes down to the focus being lopsided between the boys. Similar to his mom, Jon's perspective isn't as well explored as Jordan's. And if there is a turn to the dark and a need for redemption, then Jon's been brewing in the background rather than having us follow along at least close to inside his head like Jordan. Like, Jon gets dumped by his might-as-well-be-imaginary girlfriend and, hilariously enough, it's treated as a sidebar to Jordan finally getting a date with Sarah...in the same scene! There is no greater example of the lopsided focus than that moment. I'm not asking to know this young lady's favorite food or movie (and I'm no fool. The juxtaposition of Jordan's first potential gf next to the end of Jon's already established relationship is clear), but a getting a scene or two where he talks on the phone or video chat with her and vents a bit in a similar (but obviously less substantial way because Sarah is main supporting cast) way Jordan gets to with Sarah could've gone a long way.

But as it stands, this just felt *exclusively* like another kick to the shins that Jon just has to deal with, and that feels like the main idea of it: "how much can this kid deal with and still be as good as he is?" That's ALL we seem to get for him, and it feels like it's setting him up as a foil. And that (along with little ******* remarks like "he's been popular his whole life, he'll be fine") makes Jordan having Jon's plot points grafted onto him all the more glaring and upsetting.

I think you're fixating a bit too much on the names, rather than who these characters are meant to be in the context of the show. Jordan is comics Jon, just as much as TV Jon is. They're the same character, but split in two. That said, I don't think either of them are going to turn into the same character that we see in the comics. The show is doing it's own thing here that are clearly taking inspiration from the comics, but aren't trying to do a straight adaptation. Both of them are meant to represent different aspects of both Clark and Lois, just as Jonathan Kent does in the comics.

My main issue is that both the comics and the show haven't done enough to show how Lois's traits in her son/sons, but I willing to wait and see if they do before I criticize it too badly. I mean, comics' Jon has only been around for a few years and the show only has a handful of episodes. This stuff will take time and Superman's obviously the flashier of the two parents to highlight.

As for TV's Jon's long-term development, I think that's meant to be a slow burn. I'll wait and see what they end up doing with him before I get too worried. With serialized storytelling, it often takes a season to see where they end up taking a character and sometimes even longer once the writers begin to write to the actor's strengths, which often leads to significant changes.

[The Frog Bros]

Do want to comment on Chrissy, though. She seems to be getting some of that Lois Lane energy, and that's always great to see. Also, Edge and Larr are apparently trying to revive someone using X-Kryptonite and... possession?. I wonder if it's Zod, or Xa-Du. The evil Superman from Captain Luthor's world might not even be Superman, after all.

Yeah, her WWLLD line was pretty great.

[rpmaluki]

I don't think it's so much that they're grafting elements of comics Jon onto Jordan, but rather that they've divided comics Jon into two characters and added new elements to both. TV Jon may have gotten the name, but he's a very, very different character. He's got the optimism and easy-going nature while his brother got the angst. Clearly, they're both getting powers.

I do believe they split Jon in two, in story (Crisis) as well as for storytelling purposes (we keep Jon's sunny comic disposition while exploring the alien angst with Jordan). I do agree about the lop-sided way things are developing at the moment but I am certain the second half of the story will deal more with Jon and what is clearly a build up to a bigger story for him. There will be a pay off, from powers, acclimatise to Smallville, his football picking up accordingly etc. They are on different journeys but I dont think Jon will turn villain at all. I don't know why that is even an option.

It also frustrates me when people are so cavalier about Jordan turning evil, in fact this was more prevalent before the show even started (to the point of rooting for it) because they saw that he had anxiety issues and came to that conclusion. My question is why must the son of Superman turn evil at all, it doesn't matter who it is? Considering how much I hate people wanting/expecting Superman to go "injustice" at the drop of a hate, how could I ever be okay with either of his sons being used that way? There are infinite stories to tell, with dramatic weight that don't involve turning good characters into vile and despicable individuals to service cheap plots or other characters. With this show I want the boys to remain close as they BOTH wade through this new discovery of their roots and eventually the stability of their powers (I actually don't want them suiting up for at least another season or so, Clark should be the only professional super, since we don't see much of the heroics on the show as it is). The boys are different in personality but the core being the sons of Superman and Lois that should always center and motivate them as people. It's not going to be easy or quick like we're seeing Clark struggle with all these plates in the air. I want to see the family work through their issues (which they have) and come out stronger, anything less than this is unacceptable to me.

[Celgress]

I put this in the TV thread so I think I'll drop it here too. I'm trying to help out one of my real-life friends who is having health issues and started a Youtube Channel to keep his mind off things while he (hopefully *crosses fingers*) recovers -

My friend reviews the first five episodes of Super-Man and Lois giving his thoughts about the series thus far -



If so inclined, please give him a watch, thanks.

[Nelliebly]

I don't think it's so much that they're grafting elements of comics Jon onto Jordan, but rather that they've divided comics Jon into two characters and added new elements to both. TV Jon may have gotten the name, but he's a very, very different character. He's got the optimism and easy-going nature while his brother got the angst. Clearly, they're both getting powers.

It’s exactly what Smallville did with comics Lana Lang. They divided her into two characters.

Chloe Sullivan got the childhood best friend, baby reporter from Superboy comics. The one who knew Clark was Superboy.

Lana Lang on SV retained the high school love/childhood crush aspect.

[Superlad93]

I think you're fixating a bit too much on the names, rather than who these characters are meant to be in the context of the show.

But I'm not. That's not even the root of my issue, but rather a fact that becomes somewhat annoying when coupled with my root issue. My issue is the lopsided focus and strong likelihood of Jon being used as more of a foil than I think should be the case given the lopsided focus.

The fact that Jordan has aspects of Jon grafted onto him then only stings because there doesn't feel like there's an equal pull towards Jon in terms of focus and story outlets.

I haven't written the show off yet by any means. I still love it and am grateful for it, but there are some potential red flags-- as far as my personal enjoyment goes-- that I'm seeing that I hope are avoided in some way. Like, there is a really cool way to do a drug allegory for Jon, but I NEED focus on him and his perspective so that it's not just ultimately in service of emotional conflict for Jordan or even Clark. I don't want to have to wait for the odd numbed episode out of half a dozen just to get the implication of his perspective when he's not just main cast, but literally the third name listed in the cast. I have a stronger handle on Sarah's trajectory as a character than I do Jon, and I don't get why that is.

[daBronzeBomma]

Some takeaways from #SupermanAndLois season 1 episode 5 (spoilers)
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1. It finally happened: Jonathan snapped.

And it's about time. Nobody, especially not a teenager, could take all the compounding Ls the kid did for 5 episodes (moving to a new city, losing all his old friends, getting benched, watching his brother steal his football thunder, not having any powers, getting dumped, etc) and NOT act out in some way.

And he acted out in the most teenage way possible, by getting caught drunk in public.

But it should be noted once he ruined Jordan's night with Sara at the Harvest Festival, Jonathan immediately (tho still too late) recognized his mistake and apologized. This was his highlight episode so far, and badly needed.

2. Martha!

Too often in Superverse lore, the fathers get too much of the credit for Clark/Kal.

With his Kryptonian parents, it's a complete blowout: Jor-El alone referred to by Kal 100 times before his mother Lara Lor-Van gets any unique mention.

It's a little better with his Terrestrial parents, as Martha (maiden name Clark) Kent typically outlives Jonathan Kent Senior anywhere from a few seconds to a few decades. But she is primarily only a source of comfort and not a source of wisdom as her often-late husband gets to be.

This episode she got to be both. Hope we get more of her in flashbacks set a little closer to the present. Glad she got a bench.

3. Clark and Lois' best episode yet as parents.

I don't want to imagine what would happened to me if my folks had managed to catch me underage-drinking in high school while in public to boot. Safe bet they wouldn't have handled it as nicely as Clark and Lois did.

They're not easy pushovers but they're not strict disciplinarians either. They can get righteously angry but realize in the moment there is more to gain by not bringing down the hammer.

He even offers Jonathan a potential way back to Metropolis if he gives Smallville a honest chance.

I thought Clark in particular meted out parental justice extremely well, considering ...

4. Young Clark was a selfish jerk.

This. More of this.

Clark is good, but he is not, was not, and never should be a saint. He has messed up. Constantly. And this episode showed that he had learned from those past screw-ups and didn't repeat the cycle.

5. Nighttime Superman!

This still takes some getting used to. I've never seen Superman operate under the shadow of darkness like this before. It's about as weird as seeing Batman in broad daylight. The setting goes against the brand.

But unlike Ol' Pointy Ears, Clark can act in full power, day or night. Loved the night chase, with Clark putting out fires at superspeed, and flying thru cornfields. Reminded me of both MAN OF STEEL and SUPERMAN IV (in a good way).

6. Tyler Hoechlin takes the championship belt.

Christopher Reeve is still untouchable as my favorite Live-Action (costumed) Superman.

But Live-Action Clark Kent? That's all Tyler Hoechlin's spot now.

Of the 14 men so far who have played the role over the last 80+ years, he is already hands-down the most likeable and relatable and adorkable Clark Kent ever.

7. Captain Luthor is a smooth criminal.

I was impressed that this Luthor was able to connect with Lois so naturally.

And then we see why: on his Earth, he was married to Lois, who was killed by his evil Superman. Got to be a gut-punch to see any version of your spouse happily married to someone else.

I'm more convinced now that Captain Luthor is actually much more a misguided hero than a villain, and won't be the season's big bad at all. He's definitely one to watch.

8. Clark Kent the Journalist no longer matters.

Not really about this episode, but between 1) this show having him laid off to become an assistant HS coach and 2) the DCEU Clark Kent officially killed off at the same time Superman died and 3) Clark revealing his identity to the world and universe in the current comix.

It's never been more clear than Clark doesn't need to be a reporter or in the news media at all. Lois Lane absolutely has to, but not Clark.

9. The Langs are still there, but not useless. Kyle is ultimately a good dude (firefighter who does actively risk his life to save others) with a very punchable face and a drinking problem.

Sara put drunk-ass Jonathan right in his place (her best scene in the series, so far , by far).

Lana is ... good for exposition, I guess. Still not feeling her character.

10. Freaks of the Week.

Superman doesn't necessarily need someone to hit every night. But it sure helps what when he does, they are not disposable freaks of the Week that the old show SMALLVILLE got saddled with.

Hopefully, SAL gets access to the real Superman rogues gallery like Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Zod/Faora, Doomsday, Mongul, Metallo, Bizarro, Lady Blaze, Maxima, Mxyzptlk, Parasite, etc.

Next week: Nothing ��. On hiatus till May.

Grade: 8/10.