Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[Frontier]

It does sort of feel like they could be setting Morgan up for a redemption, doesn’t it? When Clark says “you don’t have to do this” to him right before he submits.

I think a big part of why Tal is the way he is is because of his father even if his convictions seem genuine.

[Vordan]

I think a big part of why Tal is the way he is is because of his father even if his convictions seem genuine.

If you read the interview, Rainer agrees with you. It’s a mix of his first interactions with humans being so terrible and then his dad basically torturing him into becoming the perfect soldier.

[Frontier]

If you read the interview, Rainer agrees with you. It’s a mix of his first interactions with humans being so terrible and then his dad basically torturing him into becoming the perfect soldier.

To a certain extent I feel kind of bad for him.

From his perspective his mom basically abandoned him and left him with Kryptonian Darth Sidious.

His planet blew up and he was rocketed to Earth where he was hunted down and tortured as a teenager. Basically everything that could've gone wrong with his arrival, did.

His father only sees him as a tool and tortured him into being a weapon.

The brother he always wanted to get to know turns out to be in opposition of his life's mission, which is restoring his planet and civilization, which is also nominally his brother's planet and civilization.

He's like the Jon of the sibling's where everything kind of goes bad for him.

[JAK]

I'm right with you. I liked Tyler and Bitsie in the roles on Supergirl,but they've taken it up a few notches. My favorite Supes....and my favorite Lois now.

Absolutely. And if they keep going like this, it won't even be close.

I agree with you and JAK, easily my favorite Superman and Lois. This show takes so many classic elements and nods to all things Superman and still does new and surprising things with them. There is some real, solid character work as the icing on the cake. I just can't get enough of it. My wife and I look forward to it every week. That July 13th date hurt a bit but I'm so excited for the next episode.

Yep - for the most part, it just carries itself with a level of intelligence that's just refreshing. I know not everyone feels this way, and I do understand why, but I know what I feel, too.

It does sort of feel like they could be setting Morgan up for a redemption, doesn’t it? When Clark says “you don’t have to do this” to him right before he submits.

It does. But then, I watched The Vampire Diaries for 8 years where (more often than not) last season's villain became this season's helping hand, so I'm kinda conditioned to see it now, lol.

Bitsie and Tyler are incredible. There is just no getting around it. As I’ve seen people say elsewhere, I know obviously that she’s happily married to David Giuntoli but if I didn’t know that and you told me that Bitsie and Tyler were the ones who were really married I would probably go “yeah that makes sense.”

Definitely - and speaking of, I'd actually love it if David got to be an alternate Superman or something in the show sometime, because he could pull it off well, too!

I really love that they told their story in a completely new and fresh way. They could have easily done a retread of Superman: The Movie, LnC or even Smallville with their love story and people would have eaten it up. But they didn’t. They took the time to tell a completely new story of an 83 year old love story. And they did it extremely well. They looked at it and said “ok we are telling this love story now in 2021. Lois and Clark are older millennials/young Gen-X. What does that look like?” I commend them for it.

Yeah, I was curious how they'd do that, too. And, honestly, they need to film about and hour and a half more like this and just make a movie, because this is the fresh-yet-classic I've been begging for for decades now. It would be (generally) seen as better than any Superman movie so far, and you don't even have to raise the effects budget for it... and however they pull that off, it's incredible.

I think a big part of why Tal is the way he is is because of his father even if his convictions seem genuine.

Agreed. I'm also wondering if Morgan Edge is really *the* Morgan Edge, or if we'll find he just took over the guy's life or something, and the standard slimeball we recognize will emerge from capture after all of this. Lois mentioning the "fake accent" and a few other things from the interview with Edge's actor make me wonder about that.

[manwhohaseverything]

Isn't clark the same?his parents made him too...As far as i am concerned they are both the same from amoral viewpoint.With tal ,there is potential for growth,change..etc because of his need for a family.He can rise above everything.

[Frontier]

Agreed. I'm also wondering if Morgan Edge is really *the* Morgan Edge, or if we'll find he just took over the guy's life or something, and the standard slimeball we recognize will emerge from capture after all of this. Lois mentioning the "fake accent" and a few other things from the interview with Edge's actor make me wonder about that.

Now I'm just imagining Adrian Pasdar coming in and claiming identity fraud .

Isn't clark the same?his parents made him too...As far as i am concerned they are both the same from amoral viewpoint.With tal ,there is potential for growth,change..etc because of his need for a family.He can rise above everything.

They lived parallel, yet contrasting, lives which is why they ended up being so different even if their lives hit similar beats that veered off from one another.

[manwhohaseverything]

They lived parallel, yet contrasting, lives which is why they ended up being so different even if their lives hit similar beats that veered off from one another.

You seem to have misunderstood.That's what i said.swapping kal with tal,Kal would have no redemptive qualities with his quest for vengeance on humanity and obedience to a father that torchers him.He would be evil incarnate.While,tal has shown he isn't just a product of society,times,..etc with his own will/desires and that he has potential to rise above society.Clark/kal hasn't.This could change.but so far hasn't happened.Why should you just rise above bad events?you should rise above the good as well.

[Frontier]

You seem to have misunderstood.That's what i said.swapping kal with tal,Kal would have no redemptive qualities with his quest for vengeance on humanity and obedience to a father that torchers him.He would be evil incarnate.While,tal has shown he isn't just a product of society,times,..etc with his own will/desires and that he has potential to rise above society.Clark/kal hasn't.This could change.but so far hasn't happened.Why should you just rise above bad events?you should rise above the good as well.

I'm...not sure I understand?

You can't really swap them since their separate yet connected heritages help define who they are to some extent.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This episode sealed the deal for me. Tulloch is my favorite Lois Lane put to screen.

[signalman112]

Nice to see ATOM-MAN make the leap from Radio to Live Action TV.

SupermanRadio.jpg

[Nelliebly]

This episode sealed the deal for me. Tulloch is my favorite Lois Lane put to screen.

Erica Durance is still my all time fave right now in the sense that we were with her for 7 years and really saw her entire arc.

But Elizabeth Tulloch has closed the gap a lot more than I would have ever predicted in a mere 11 episodes. Which is a heck of a achievement. She’s amazing.

[Nelliebly]

Someone somewhere at WB is extremely thankful right now that Tyler Hoechlin and Elizabeth Tulloch like each other so much. This show would be an absolute disaster if they didn’t get along and couldn’t work together.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Personally i kinda have Tulloch, Durance, Hatcher and Kidder tied for favorite Lois. She's like Alfred Pennyworth for me as far as being one of those characters that for some reason just has a really good track record for live action.
But Hoechlin is definitely my favorite Superman and Clark now. Which was tough because I didn't think anyone would overtake Chris Reeve for my top spot.

[manwhohaseverything]

I'm...not sure I understand?

You can't really swap them since their separate yet connected heritages help define who they are to some extent.

I am saying if kal was in tal's place.if jor el was torchering him or if he landed somewhere he was hunted.The kal would just be evil and without any redemptive qualities.Why?kal is just defined by things that happened to him.Sheer dumb luck that it was good.

[Quinlan58]

The origin story part was okay. I had my problems with it: as others have mentioned, Clark feels like he's just following what his parents tell him to do, after the previous flashbacks to his youth showed him stoppoing crime in spite of Martha's worries, here not only does Jor-El tells him his destiny (oh how I hate the idea of Jor-El and Lara sending baby Kal for any reason other than making sure he doesn't die), but he even tells him to not be a superhero yet when Clark's obviously excited but rather go look for more worldly experience, which makes it look like even his non-super life is Jor-El's idea. Like, if there was any complain about Clark not having agency in Man of Steel, here it's even worse. There's also the various references almost taking over the show. Once we got to the Metropolis segment, though, I pretty much enjoyed everything, from the super-speed clothes change in the phone booth to Clark's and Lois' investigations.

The later portion of it was even better for me. Loved Jor-El out of nowhere screaming at Kal to escape, loved how the memories just started to jump around once the game was up, loved to see Morgan Edge embrace his comic book supervillainy, his inherent cheesyness as the long-lost evil half-brother of Superman actually mixing well with how clearly heartbroken he's at Clark not joining his genocide plan, the contrast between his memories and Clark's, and especially Clark telling Lois that "John was right" (have they discussed what they need to do in such a case? because that was the impression I got).

Oh, and Jordan got his first kiss. That was good I guess.