Superman & Lois S1: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[lilyrose]

I'm so happy this show is so good. I love it.

Superman is my favorite superhero and I watch everything he's in, which means I've seen the old Superman movies (of course, no one yet has topped Chris Reeve's perfect, definitive take on the character), I watched Lois & Clark when it was on TV, then Smallville, then Superman Returns (not good), the Man of Steel movies (which are sadly horrible imo), and all the cartoons, from the TAS to the JL shows. I've even seen the 1940's live action serial with Kirk Alyn and Noel Neill (seriously) and the George Reeves movie Superman and the Mole Men.

So I was always going to watch this anyway, even if it sucked, just because.

But I'm so glad it turned out to be this good! I had really low expectations actually, because the CW superhero shows all feel kinda the same, but this one, surprisingly didn't!

It also seems obvious with the complete lack of acknowledgement of Kara that the showrunners don't want to be tied in to the Arrowverse (despite the fact that Clark and Lois were introduced there), but they're probably going to have to bring that up at some point I assume.

[Vordan]

The origin story part was okay. I had my problems with it: as others have mentioned, Clark feels like he's just following what his parents tell him to do, after the previous flashbacks to his youth showed him stoppoing crime in spite of Martha's worries, here not only does Jor-El tells him his destiny (oh how I hate the idea of Jor-El and Lara sending baby Kal for any reason other than making sure he doesn't die), but he even tells him to not be a superhero yet when Clark's obviously excited but rather go look for more worldly experience, which makes it look like even his non-super life is Jor-El's idea. Like, if there was any complain about Clark not having agency in Man of Steel, here it's even worse. There's also the various references almost taking over the show. Once we got to the Metropolis segment, though, I pretty much enjoyed everything, from the super-speed clothes change in the phone booth to Clark's and Lois' investigations.

The later portion of it was even better for me. Loved Jor-El out of nowhere screaming at Kal to escape, loved how the memories just started to jump around once the game was up, loved to see Morgan Edge embrace his comic book supervillainy, his inherent cheesyness as the long-lost evil half-brother of Superman actually mixing well with how clearly heartbroken he's at Clark not joining his genocide plan, the contrast between his memories and Clark's, and especially Clark telling Lois that "John was right" (have they discussed what they need to do in such a case? because that was the impression I got).

Oh, and Jordan got his first kiss. That was good I guess.

While I too dislike the idea of Jor sending Kal to Earth as part of a “destiny” rather than just survival, Clark’s “Superboy” adventures against his mom’s wishes are what gives him agency imo. He choose to do that even though Martha didn’t want him to, and thus his training and what not feels like less of “you need to do this” and moreso “you want to do this and I will help you achieve that goal” in a way that still centers Clark’s desire to be a hero.

[Frontier]

I am saying if kal was in tal's place.if jor el was torchering him or if he landed somewhere he was hunted.The kal would just be evil and without any redemptive qualities.Why?kal is just defined by things that happened to him.Sheer dumb luck that it was good.

It's not dumb luck so much as just a different set of circumstances.

The origin story part was okay. I had my problems with it: as others have mentioned, Clark feels like he's just following what his parents tell him to do, after the previous flashbacks to his youth showed him stoppoing crime in spite of Martha's worries, here not only does Jor-El tells him his destiny (oh how I hate the idea of Jor-El and Lara sending baby Kal for any reason other than making sure he doesn't die), but he even tells him to not be a superhero yet when Clark's obviously excited but rather go look for more worldly experience, which makes it look like even his non-super life is Jor-El's idea. Like, if there was any complain about Clark not having agency in Man of Steel, here it's even worse. There's also the various references almost taking over the show. Once we got to the Metropolis segment, though, I pretty much enjoyed everything, from the super-speed clothes change in the phone booth to Clark's and Lois' investigations.

We saw Clark fighting crime before he found the Fortress so if anything it was basically just Jor-El re-affirming what Clark wanted to do and then, as a father, making sure his son knew exactly why he wanted to do it before he committed to it 100%.

It also seems obvious with the complete lack of acknowledgement of Kara that the showrunners don't want to be tied in to the Arrowverse (despite the fact that Clark and Lois were introduced there), but they're probably going to have to bring that up at some point I assume.

I mean, the preview for the show's return showed John Diggle so it's not like they're completely shying away from the Arrowverse, but the complete lack of any acknowledgement of Supergirl is pretty significant.

Unless this somehow ties into the end of Kara's show.

[rpmaluki]

Clark chose to be a hero on his own , him getting the support and training from his parents doesn't change that.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark chose to be a hero on his own , him getting the support and training from his parents doesn't change that.

I didn't see clark trying to be anything else.it didn't even say why clark wants to be a hero(whatever that is.there are tons of people around helping people.For them heroing isn't thing they do.people needed help so they step up.that is it)?His will.Not his parents martha or jor el or whomever..

Why?why not be music man?(thank you!thank you very much)i mean,you don't have to be a costumed hero.Just help when times when situations present itself...There isn't any concrete answer to why be costumed hero and do all the grandstanding shtick.other than being some paragon to people which his parents told him too..(martha literally made him the costume)

It's not just the snyder movies.this is a broad structural problem with superman stories in general.The lack of emphasis on human or alien (for that matter) will conveyed through the protagonist..This time it stuck out cause there actual contrast to kal in tal.

[rpmaluki]

He was already fighting crime before he left Smallville. Its not about having a mission statement jotted down in black and white. Clark was already on the hero path on his own before he got to the Arctic and formed the Fortress.

[manwhohaseverything]

He was already fighting crime before he left Smallville. Its not about having a mission statement jotted down in black and white. Clark was already on the hero path on his own before he got to the Arctic and formed the Fortress.

Yeah! he was a masked vigilante who scared of a couple of thugs in a sequence.He could have continued that.That's the thing,There is nothing to that scene.It's just there.there is nothing that connects it to clark's personal will or martha's reaction to the whole thing.It even sticks out like sore thumb considering the rest of the story and how clark in generally is through out.It was sort of treated as a kind of teenage rebellious phase clark was going through.You could argue that was clark's own decision.(i mean,whose mother would want their teen son to go out and scare people as vigilante).But,those dot's aren't filled.Clark was trying to reach jordan if i remember correctly.I wouldn't call going through some phase of life in general being someone's will.A will is something very much more a concrete...

[JAK]

Yeah! he was a masked vigilante who scared of a couple of thugs in a sequence.He could have continued that.That's the thing,There is nothing to that scene.It's just there.there is nothing that connects it to clark's personal will or martha's reaction to the whole thing.It even sticks out like sore thumb considering the rest of the story and how clark in generally is through out.It was sort of treated as a kind of teenage rebellious phase clark was going through.You could argue that was clark's own decision.(i mean,whose mother would want their teen son to go out and scare people as vigilante).But,those dot's aren't filled.Clark was trying to reach jordan if i remember correctly.I wouldn't call going through some phase of life in general being someone's will.A will is something very much more a concrete...

The phase wasn't the "what" but the "how." He sets off to find how to better do what he wants - that's the will part - and his being a bit reckless about his expression of it is the phase.

That said, the one aspect of the latest episode that I wasn't as crazy about was the heavy handed push to "being a hero" specifically, even though he (chronologically-speaking, as discussed) already basically made that decision, and that aspect certainly could have been constructed better so that Clark could say "why". I would have preferred that, too. But I was willing to let it slide given just how great the rest was.

[Yoda]

Was able to catch up on this yesterday finally, binged the last four episodes. Those were some fantastic Superman. Seriously think that was probably my favorite stretch of Superman media ever. Episode 11 was exceptional and the Lois & Clark development was astounding. Loved the angle they took and both Clark’s realizations about what being Superman did and how Lois reacted to it. My only quibble would be to have seen them actually get together initially. They “told” there instead of “showed”. Maybe re-edit that elevator scene before the interview reveal.

So does anyone else suspect they may do a identity reveal here? Edge basically threatened it. I think it’d be rushed but this show had been nailing a lot of difficult landings already. The Edge half brother reveal was something I thought I’d hate but it kinda works for me.

[Vordan]

I’m expecting an identity reveal may be the “endgame” scenario for the show, with Jon & Jordan publicly acknowledged as sons of Superman and one or both taking over for him. I don’t think he’ll be outed this season, there’s still drama to be mined from the secret identity, especially in the context of Jordan and Sarah’s relationship.

[Superlad93]

So does anyone else suspect they may do a identity reveal here? Edge basically threatened it. I think it’d be rushed but this show had been nailing a lot of difficult landings already. The Edge half brother reveal was something I thought I’d hate but it kinda works for me.

I'd really enjoy seeing that, but the show has a bit of a hobbit of playing it fairly standard (though quite solid) with its macro plots, and I doubt it's built for that sort of shift. Disperser of Truth sums up how the show's priority list makes something like this fairly unlikely at this stage.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I hope not (and personally doubt it), one of the highlights of this show is how they handle the Clark/Superman dynamic, I'd hate to lose that. But I trust this show would handle it better than the comics ever did.

[Frontier]

I thought about it when Edge mentioned he might expose his identity, but with the way the story is going I honestly don't think Edge is going to get a chance to do anything about it, and it wouldn't really fit with the personal conflict in my opinion.

I also think it's just way too soon in the series to be doing it.

[Sam]

Also, given what we've seen with Edge finding out Clark's identity and terribly dangerous it immediately was for his family, any suggestion that Clark reveal his identity to the world would have to seen as an extremely bad idea.

[rpmaluki]

Also, given what we've seen with Edge finding out Clark's identity and terribly dangerous it immediately was for his family, any suggestion that Clark reveal his identity to the world would have to seen as an extremely bad idea.

Yep. The identity reveal would be way too premature and cause more problems that it would solve.