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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    You don't get it, sales don't mean quality product. It just means there was a hype around it.

    Aquaman never had hype, a bit when the movie came out, that's all. Aquaman is always underrated. I guess his adventures don't interest people.
    Look at Marvel's counterpart, Namor, he is almost forgotten. I don't even know when was his last ongoing.

    Look at the DC Metal event that sells very well. It's pretty bad, but it still sells. Number don't = quality.

    But I guess a few stupid things makes people wan't to buy: Dark Multivers, Zombies, Evil versions, Monsters - I don't know why people are hyped by such things.
    Quality is subjective. Sales aren't. Just because you feel something is of inferior quality doesn't mean the majority opinion is the same.
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  2. #17
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    Quality is subjective. Sales aren't. Just because you feel something is of inferior quality doesn't mean the majority opinion is the same.
    the transformers films were objectively bad films, consistently panned critically and mostly a joke culturally but it made money because it's just a dumb big movie that you can take the family to. sales =/= quality, especially in a medium like comics where half of the people reading these books only do so to complain about the book.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    The complete formula would be sales =/= quality =/= enjoyment
    Sales can come from convincing advertising before people were sure what it's about
    The enjoyment you can only judge after already paying them, assuming people don't pirate it of course
    Quality doesn't relate to enjoyment because some people like to watch a trainwreck. Something critically acclaimed can be considered boring or overrated because people base their rating on how much they enjoy it.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    the transformers films were objectively bad films, consistently panned critically and mostly a joke culturally but it made money because it's just a dumb big movie that you can take the family to. sales =/= quality, especially in a medium like comics where half of the people reading these books only do so to complain about the book.
    I never said sales = higher quality. I said quality is subjective. A lot of people like those Transformers movies or they wouldn't have kept being made. A lot of people think they're good movies. Are they right or wrong? That's not for me to say.

    There are a number of Academy Award-winning movies the general public haven't enjoyed. Does that automatically mean that they are all wrong because critics praised them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The complete formula would be sales =/= quality =/= enjoyment
    Sales can come from convincing advertising before people were sure what it's about
    The enjoyment you can only judge after already paying them, assuming people don't pirate it of course
    Quality doesn't relate to enjoyment because some people like to watch a trainwreck. Something critically acclaimed can be considered boring or overrated because people base their rating on how much they enjoy it.
    That idea doesn't really hold in the medium of comics. it could be said about the first issue, sure. Buy by issue 7 or 8 you know full well what you are getting with those comics.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hcmarvel View Post
    With Snyder and Capullo (And Johns and Fabok) stepping away from DC for the time being, who do you think are the top writer and artist at the company?

    I know this is a subjective question but there is some objectivity you can bring to it. Snyder has shaped Batman and then Justice League and the two last big events DC has done. Capullo was the artist on said events. I think they were definitely considered the unofficial top dogs at the company. Who is it now?

    Is it Bendis because of his name recognition and the fact that he's on Justice League? (I don't think so)
    Is it Williamson cause he seems to be spearheading Infinite Frontier #0?
    Is it Tynion IV cause he's kind of the head of Batman right now and Snyder's protege?
    Is it Taylor who seems to be getting more and more influence on the mainstream universe and has TWO immensely popular AU stories going on?


    And art wise...

    It seems to me like it's Dan Mora (who is just now getting started but is already a superstar and has been doing so many covers for the company) or Jorge Jiminez who was on Justice League and now Batman. I guess David Marquez is on Justice League and immensely talented...but he hasn't made his mark on DC yet.

    My vote would be Williamson (with a strong argument for Tynion IV) and Jiminez.

    Am I missing someone?
    Sadly I think Marvel has the best quality writers right now.

    I guess it would be Bendis and Tyrion but...

    Bendis's Legion of super heroes is horrendously awful
    Tyrion did a good job on JLD, but I'm not sold on him yet....his Batman run has been lackluster

    I would agree with you on Williamson, his Flash run was great.
    I'm also a big fan of Vendetti. Both his Green Lantern and Hawkman runs were fantastic in my opinion.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Customizer View Post
    Hands down John Ridley.

    The level of depth he has given below C list characters is utterly inspiring.
    An excellent choice.

    I wish it were Tom King or Priest but it wonít be either of them. I think DC is thinking Williamson but I would love it if it were Ridley. His Other History has been especially great. Iíd like to see him write as much as possible. And I think Williamson is only fair to middling. Iíve liked some stuff heís written but I havenít come close to loving any of it. He would be an uninspired choice.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    As for art, Jimenez hands down.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    That idea doesn't really hold in the medium of comics. it could be said about the first issue, sure. Buy by issue 7 or 8 you know full well what you are getting with those comics.
    But the first issue count, and if you read trades, the whole arc counts. Also, some people like to complete buying the arc and only stop after the story ends, because who knows maybe it gets better or there's a twist and I'm wrong about the setup since the story isn't finished yet.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    If looking at quality my premier team for last two years was Morrison/Sharp. Morrison is supposedly done with monthlies, but Sharp is doing at least 6 more issues for DC so he is my go to artist this year as well.

    When it comes to "big picture" I guess that it is, unfortunately, Tynion and Williamson. As for art it is probably Jiminez.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    You don't get it, sales don't mean quality product. It just means there was a hype around it.

    Aquaman never had hype, a bit when the movie came out, that's all. Aquaman is always underrated. I guess his adventures don't interest people.
    Look at Marvel's counterpart, Namor, he is almost forgotten. I don't even know when was his last ongoing.

    Look at the DC Metal event that sells very well. It's pretty bad, but it still sells. Number don't = quality.

    But I guess a few stupid things makes people wan't to buy: Dark Multivers, Zombies, Evil versions, Monsters - I don't know why people are hyped by such things.
    Aquaman did well very well with Johns, outsold every Marvel issue at one point and even did better than certain A-List DC characters. That run was a commercial and critical success.
    With Parker Aquaman still had very good sales and had interest from people.

    Abnett's run started out well it was real fun, but he got embroiled in a never ending arc that took 36issues to get a a conclusion. He stretched that arc beyond reason, just to accommodate his Mera solo. He had some good ideas mind it, brought back some characters, but thats that. He rehashed the Arthur being dethroned, came up with Mera as queen, a huge contradiction, when for most of his run he wrote her on how much she hated Atlantis and viceversa, and in two panels she likes to become Queen. I repeat 36 issues to end an arc became boring and tiring and the promise on which his run started, never came near to be fulfilled.
    Even among Aquafans in a recent poll on Aquaverse he came last and only one arc of his run made it to the best arcs of the last decade, it also placed last. TBH he had to deal with lots of editorial vetoes. But at the end of his run unlike Johns and Parker, he left a book in a dead end.
    Runs are the reasons for not selling not the characters.
    Last edited by MarFarr; 02-24-2021 at 08:07 AM.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    But the first issue count, and if you read trades, the whole arc counts. Also, some people like to complete buying the arc and only stop after the story ends, because who knows maybe it gets better or there's a twist and I'm wrong about the setup since the story isn't finished yet.
    By the time the trade comes out, the series is over and there is a general consensus on if it is good or not. And even then opinion still varies. Heroes in Crisis was generally hated by the time it was done but it still sold well in trades. So, again, quality is subjective.

    Also, if you read 1-2 issues of a comic and hate it, but continue to buy the other 5-6 issues out of some sense of completion, that says more about the buyer than the quality of what they are buying.
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