DC introducing a new wrinkle to classic continuity

[gambit2051]

The misunderstanding is that this is immediately coming off the heels of the "Omniverse" revelation in Metal that established the characters remembered their past realities - not necessarily experienced it. Not to mention the "Metaverse" solution Johns tried coming up with at the end of Doomsday Clock a little over a year ago (I can't even explain that one).

So I think fans are understandably confused on what this means. But I think 100% there's no doubt that the Linearverse is supposed to establish all these characters have been operating since their publication debuts.

THIS. They have literally introduced 3 new "concepts" for how to "interpret" the Core DC Universe inside of 18 months...and none worse than ending Death Metal with their Omniverse and then having their next Big Comic 2 a few months later just say "**** that, it is the Linearverse"...it speaks to a level of Editor in-fighting and Power Jockeying as well imo. It tells me that we really want very few of the people with decision making power at DC actually with that power at this point...

[Bruce Wayne]

Just the total result of twenty years of mismanagement and bad leadership where management was more concerned about their position and tried to nurture inter-office rivalries in an attempt to neuter any threats to their position. The final result is a dysfunctional publishing unit that's barely holding on.

[Tzigone]

THIS. They have literally introduced 3 new "concepts" for how to "interpret" the Core DC Universe inside of 18 months...and none worse than ending Death Metal with their Omniverse and then having their next Big Comic 2 a few months later just say "**** that, it is the Linearverse"...it speaks to a level of Editor in-fighting and Power Jockeying as well imo. It tells me that we really want very few of the people with decision making power at DC actually with that power at this point...

I'd forgotten about that. I haven't been reading, and Death Metal wasn't my flavor anyway. You're correct in it seems like there's some major problems with editorial or from somewhere in power and if they don't resolve them, then no matter what they do - creatively - it isn't going to help. Not without any sort of consistency and even reasonably medium-term planning. They change their direction, reality, plans every year now, it seems. Can't even wait for one new reality-establishing story to be finished before launching another. They don't have to keep a continuity. I love continuity (though am a fan of more standalone stories), but fandoms of different types survive without a huge amount continuity. But if they are going to have one, they need to decide what it is, plan it out, and then stick to for a little while, at least. As long they keep reverting and changing their story about what is and isn't happening and how the universe work, we're getting to worst of both worlds. Too much history/continuity to be easily accessible, and too convoluted and contradictory to be fun for those that love minutiae and keeping track of the details.

Also, they really need to quit adding elements to characters' pasts and retconning them, IMO. I know those have resulted in some of the most beloved stories (though typically, I admit, not by me), but they really need to move forward on a sustainable route (not things done for shock value without regard to consequences or things that cannot last long-term and will have to "undone" for the character in question to continue to be viable after the storyline is over).

[Restingvoice]

The misunderstanding is that this is immediately coming off the heels of the "Omniverse" revelation in Metal that established the characters remembered their past realities - not necessarily experienced it. Not to mention the "Metaverse" solution Johns tried coming up with at the end of Doomsday Clock a little over a year ago (I can't even explain that one).

So I think fans are understandably confused on what this means. But I think 100% there's no doubt that the Linearverse is supposed to establish all these characters have been operating since their publication debuts.

Omniverse - Everything. All the Multiverse. All the Earth/Universe. Infinite possibilities.

Metaverse - The understanding that every Earth/Universe was created to preserve a version of the stories, and once their time ended because a Crisis happened, it is archived in a different Earth like Earth 1985 preserving the stories of Pre-Crisis

Linearverse - The, as far as I know, one universe/Earth where all characters age slowly. We don't know yet if it works that way in all Earths and Multiverses

Morrison's Map of The Multiverse - The Orrery of 52 Earths - The Multiverse of New 52 and Rebirth - One of the Multiverse within the Omniverse - I don't know for sure, but if Omniverse, Metaverse, and Linearverse are all canon, that means The Orrery, which is a past version of the Multiverse where Earth-0 is the center of the Multiverse, is currently Archived in the Metaverse, while the Omniverse move on using the new Linearverse rule.

Hypertime - The infinite possibility of branching timeline - During Death Metal, it was eaten by The Darkest Knight until the end when it's healing. It's still existing, so how time works in Linearverse is just one branch of Hypertime.

About the memory - Every characters become aware of every version of their past continuities. What this means with the introduction of Linearverse should be that, while currently Batman is 80+ years old in this Earth-0, he can remember the time from before Linearverse was introduced. Rebirth, New 52, Post-Crisis, Silver, and Golden Age, where he was only 30-40 years old each time, all of which are still archived in the Metaverse.

How that memory works - Barry mentioned that they may experience flashes of those memories from time to time.

So it should be like this

Unnamed Golden Age Earth > Infinite Earths > Crisis on Infinite Earths > Post-Crisis New Earth > Infinite Crisis > Post-Crisis Multiverse > Flashpoint > New 52/Rebirth Multiverse > Death Metal > Omniverse - Where now the inhabitants of Earth-0 remember everything from the past ">" but in this continuity Batman active since 1939 and age slowly, at least in the new Earth-0 of the new Multiverse

Should be. In theory. I don't know if DC's understanding is the same as mine.

[bat39]

Omniverse - Everything. All the Multiverse. All the Earth/Universe. Infinite possibilities.

Metaverse - The understanding that every Earth/Universe was created to preserve a version of the stories, and once their time ended because a Crisis happened, it is archived in a different Earth like Earth 1985 preserving the stories of Pre-Crisis

Linearverse - How time work in, as far as I know, 1 Earth/Universe, the main one. Earth-0. We don't know yet if it works that way in all Earths and Multiverses

Morrison's Map of The Multiverse - The Orrery of 52 Earths - The Multiverse of New 52 and Rebirth - One of the Multiverse within the Omniverse - I don't know for sure, but if Omniverse, Metaverse, and Linearverse are all canon, that means The Orrery, which is a past version of the Multiverse where Earth-0 is the center of the Multiverse, is currently Archived in the Metaverse, while the Omniverse move on using the new Linearverse rule.

Hypertime - The infinite possibility of branching timeline - During Death Metal, it was eaten by The Darkest Knight until the end when it's healing. It's still existing, so Linearverse is just one branch of Hypertime.

About the memory - Every characters become aware of every version of their past continuities. What this means with the introduction of Linearverse should be that, while currently Batman is 80+ years old in this Earth-0, he can remember the time from before Linearverse was introduced. Rebirth, New 52, Post-Crisis, Silver, and Golden Age, where he was only 30-40 years old each time, all of which are still archived in the Metaverse.

How that memory works - Barry mentioned that they may experience flashes of those memories from time to time.

So it should be like this

Unnamed Golden Age Earth > Infinite Earths > Crisis on Infinite Earths > Post-Crisis New Earth > Infinite Crisis > Post-Crisis Multiverse > Flashpoint > New 52/Rebirth Multiverse > Death Metal > Omniverse - Where now the inhabitants of Earth-0 remember everything from the past ">" but in this continuity Batman active since 1939 and age slowly, at least in the new Earth-0 of the new Multiverse

Should be. In theory. I don't know if DC's understanding is the same as mine.

That's a good summary of the concepts.

The one part I'd disagree with (actually, 'disagree' is a strong word, I'm no less confused by all this than anyone else on this thread ) is that the Linearverse is necessarily something different from the Metaverse concept.

I think the idea is that Batman has been around for 80+ years on Earth 0/Prime Earth (or whatever its called now), but that various Crises and other timey-wimey stuff has 'updated' his history and story through the decades. But thanks to Death Metal, he might be able to remember everything. And/or current continuity is anyway trying to be more inclusive ala Morrison (yeah, the exact mechanics of how it works eludes me still).

But I think its generally just a very meta acknowledgement of comic-book time and how Batman has been in continuous publication since 1939.

[Restingvoice]

That's a good summary of the concepts.

The one part I'd disagree with (actually, 'disagree' is a strong word, I'm no less confused by all this than anyone else on this thread ) is that the Linearverse is necessarily something different from the Metaverse concept.

I think the idea is that Batman has been around for 80+ years on Earth 0/Prime Earth (or whatever its called now), but that various Crises and other timey-wimey stuff has 'updated' his history and story through the decades. But thanks to Death Metal, he might be able to remember everything. And/or current continuity is anyway trying to be more inclusive ala Morrison (yeah, the exact mechanics of how it works eludes me still).

But I think its generally just a very meta acknowledgement of comic-book time and how Batman has been in continuous publication since 1939.

The reason I arrange it that way is because I don't know if Metaverse has been cancelled or not

About your point of view on the specifics of Linearverse I actually agree, it just happened in the new branch of Hypertime when Linearverse happened.

I forget to clarify it further, since it's a lot already. Let's see if I can run this down...

So in the original branch of Hypertime, it happened as it was published with Post-Crisis replacing the Infinite Multiverse

In the other branch of Hypertime, in Rebirth, it also happened as it was published, but it's all one timeline now, so Barry can go back to Flashpoint and see past selves instead of there being a cut off point after Crisis. Then when the Truth is revealed in Metal, every characters remember their past selves from before Rebirth continuity.

In the current branch of Hypertime, the Linearverse, Batman has been operating since 1939, aging slowly, experienced Crisis and Metal, and now he remembers his other versions in the previous continuity, previous, bigger, root branch of Hypertime, also preserved in the Metaverse, before time branches into the Linearverse.

Oh yea of course it's all meta concept and I'm just having fun with it

Btw I fixed the definition of Linearverse because I was caught up with it being a branch of time when the definition should be about space.

[married guy]

The citizens age slowly as well. They only mentioned Batman, Robin, and Gordon by name as an example but it's everyone.

Then you would think overpopulation would be a tremendous issue in Gotham City!
Residents who live 5 times longer than the rest of the population, plus anyone else in the world looking to live longer.

[Restingvoice]

Then you would think overpopulation would be a tremendous issue in Gotham City!
Residents who live 5 times longer than the rest of the population, plus anyone else in the world looking to live longer.

Don't worry Gotham citizens are massacred by the daily

I really don't wanna get into this, but if they're having sex at a normal rate, but the baby age slowly like the adults, so they'll be experiencing pregnancy for 9 years or something like that... that should not increase the population that much. Everything slows down.

[John Venus]

Maybe pregnancies last 5 years in the Linearverse? :P

::somewhere in the distance several women screamed in horror not knowing why::

[bat39]

The reason I arrange it that way is because I don't know if Metaverse has been cancelled or not

About your point of view on the specifics of Linearverse I actually agree, it just happened in the new branch of Hypertime when Linearverse happened.

I forget to clarify it further, since it's a lot already. Let's see if I can run this down...

So in the original branch of Hypertime, it happened as it was published with Post-Crisis replacing the Infinite Multiverse

In the other branch of Hypertime, in Rebirth, it also happened as it was published, but it's all one timeline now, so Barry can go back to Flashpoint and see past selves instead of there being a cut off point after Crisis. Then when the Truth is revealed in Metal, every characters remember their past selves from before Rebirth continuity.

In the current branch of Hypertime, the Linearverse, Batman has been operating since 1939, aging slowly, experienced Crisis and Metal, and now he remembers his other versions in the previous continuity, previous, bigger, root branch of Hypertime, also preserved in the Metaverse, before time branches into the Linearverse.

Oh yea of course it's all meta concept and I'm just having fun with it

Btw I fixed the definition of Linearverse because I was caught up with it being a branch of time when the definition should be about space.

That's the thing...I don't think current Batman literally thinks he solved "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate" 82 years ago!

I think what we're likely to get is:

-Batman remembers solving it around 15-20 years ago.

-Batman remembers solving it in ''a previous life'' in 1939.

-Batman remembers solving it 15-20 years but also vaguely remembers solving it in "a previous life" 1939.

There's also the possibility that Batman remembered solving it 15-20 years ago...but 15-20 years ago in the DCU looked an awful lot like 1939 looked in other worlds! (which is what I took away from Jurgens suggestion that Year One could be imagined as having happened in the 30's).

[Restingvoice]

That's the thing...I don't think current Batman literally thinks he solved "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate" 82 years ago!

I think what we're likely to get is:

-Batman remembers solving it around 15-20 years ago.

-Batman remembers solving it in ''a previous life'' in 1939.

-Batman remembers solving it 15-20 years but also vaguely remembers solving it in "a previous life" 1939.

There's also the possibility that Batman remembered solving it 15-20 years ago...but 15-20 years ago in the DCU looked an awful lot like 1939 looked in other worlds! (which is what I took away from Jurgens suggestion that Year One could be imagined as having happened in the 30's).

Oh yeah, how he's gonna view his physical past or the memories, I don't know yet, but they did say that they age slowly, so that's what I take.

[Factor]

The way I see it, the Omniverse is (or should be) a collection of many different multiverses. The multiverses we know would be the ones that originated from variations of the Metaverse. Each time the Metaverse evolved, it would create a new multiverse around it and the Omniverse would expand to preserve the previous multiverse.
My "history of the Omniverse" head-canon:

- OG Earth-2 is the original version of the Metaverse, from before the Omniverse's first expansion.
- The creation of Earth-1 as the new Metaverse marked the beginning of the First Multiverse, which encapsulated Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-S and all of the original Earths that were seemingly extinct during the first Crisis.
- After COIE, the new Metaverse known as New Earth's universe would have no knowledge of the survival of the previous Earths, as it would stand as the sole universe of its new multiverse. It's first contact with the larger Omniverse would have been Infinite Crisis.
- Then Flashpoint happened and the Metaverse became the New 52. Like OG Earth-1 before it, New Earth's multiverse was also preserved and Morrison's Multiverse gravivated towards the new Metaverse, resulting in the multiverse we saw in Multiversity.
- After Rebirth and Death Metal, the Metaverse kept evolving and now there's a new multiverse around it.

So the current Omniverse would consist of:
- The Original Multiverse: OG Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-S, Earth-X and so on.
- The Unified Multiverse: New Earth as the sole universe.
- The New 52 Multiverse: New 52 Earth-0, OGN's Earth-One, New 52 Earth-2 etc.
- The Infinite Multiverse: Post-Death Metal DCU and all the new Earths connected to it, like the new Earth-3, a Future State Earth, Earth-M etc.
- Other Multiverses without close ties to the Metaverse, like versions from other media.

In this scenario, everything would be preserved and the main DCU (current Metaverse) wouldn't need to be te answer to every single desire of the fans.
I'd publish at least one book for every previous version of the Metaverse so fans could get a glimpse of other important versions of their favorite characters and the main DCU could evolve without focusing on its historical baggage.
- There would be an Earth-2 book focusing on the original generation operating between 1938-1956.
- An Earth-1 Brave & the Bold book teaming up iconic versions of DC's heroes.
- A Justice League Universe book about Booster Gold leading the next evolution of the Post-Crisis JL.
- A New 52 Superman/Wonder-Woman so fans of the couple could see their story continue.

In the main DCU, I'd take bits and pieces of previous continuities to create a simplified backstory for each character, present it to readers in a concise way (like those 2-page origin stories from after Infinite Crisis) and just let the stories evolve from there.
As an example, Titans would still have started as the Fab 5 and the NTT would have happened with Cyborg no longer a JL founder. Unnecessary bloodbaths like Heroes in Crisis or terrible runs like New 52 TT would be ignored (with the exception that Bunker would still be around). Inconsequential stories like Abnett's run wouldn't need to be mentioned at all.
What's important is that the characters would have lived through their formative years and would be placed in positions where they could keep growing without retreading old ground.

That's basically it. A rich and complex Omniverse to make everyone happy and a main DCU that's more simple and accessible without losing important aspects of previous runs.

[bat39]

Oh yeah, how he's gonna view his physical past or the memories, I don't know yet, but they did say that they age slowly, so that's what I take.

Well, they also said that time works differently in the Linearverse, which I took to mean that people age slowly from the viewpoint of other universes or realms of existence.

The way I see it, the Omniverse is (or should be) a collection of many different multiverses. The multiverses we know would be the ones that originated from variations of the Metaverse. Each time the Metaverse evolved, it would create a new multiverse around it and the Omniverse would expand to preserve the previous multiverse.
My "history of the Omniverse" head-canon:

- OG Earth-2 is the original version of the Metaverse, from before the Omniverse's first expansion.
- The creation of Earth-1 as the new Metaverse marked the beginning of the First Multiverse, which encapsulated Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-S and all of the original Earths that were seemingly extinct during the first Crisis.
- After COIE, the new Metaverse known as New Earth's universe would have no knowledge of the survival of the previous Earths, as it would stand as the sole universe of its new multiverse. It's first contact with the larger Omniverse would have been Infinite Crisis.
- Then Flashpoint happened and the Metaverse became the New 52. Like OG Earth-1 before it, New Earth's multiverse was also preserved and Morrison's Multiverse gravivated towards the new Metaverse, resulting in the multiverse we saw in Multiversity.
- After Rebirth and Death Metal, the Metaverse kept evolving and now there's a new multiverse around it.

So the current Omniverse would consist of:
- The Original Multiverse: OG Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-S, Earth-X and so on.
- The Unified Multiverse: New Earth as the sole universe.
- The New 52 Multiverse: New 52 Earth-0, OGN's Earth-One, New 52 Earth-2 etc.
- The Infinite Multiverse: Post-Death Metal DCU and all the new Earths connected to it, like the new Earth-3, a Future State Earth, Earth-M etc.
- Other Multiverses without close ties to the Metaverse, like versions from other media.

In this scenario, everything would be preserved and the main DCU (current Metaverse) wouldn't need to be te answer to every single desire of the fans.
I'd publish at least one book for every previous version of the Metaverse so fans could get a glimpse of other important versions of their favorite characters and the main DCU could evolve without focusing on its historical baggage.
- There would be an Earth-2 book focusing on the original generation operating between 1938-1956.
- An Earth-1 Brave & the Bold book teaming up iconic versions of DC's heroes.
- A Justice League Universe book about Booster Gold leading the next evolution of the Post-Crisis JL.
- A New 52 Superman/Wonder-Woman so fans of the couple could see their story continue.

In the main DCU, I'd take bits and pieces of previous continuities to create a simplified backstory for each character, present it to readers in a concise way (like those 2-page origin stories from after Infinite Crisis) and just let the stories evolve from there.
As an example, Titans would still have started as the Fab 5 and the NTT would have happened with Cyborg no longer a JL founder. Unnecessary bloodbaths like Heroes in Crisis or terrible runs like New 52 TT would be ignored (with the exception that Bunker would still be around). Inconsequential stories like Abnett's run wouldn't need to be mentioned at all.
What's important is that the characters would have lived through their formative years and would be placed in positions where they could keep growing without retreading old ground.

That's basically it. A rich and complex Omniverse to make everyone happy and a main DCU that's more simple and accessible without losing important aspects of previous runs.

I have a feeling that, in their own complicated roundabout way, this is precisely what DC is currently aiming for.

[Kyer]

They sold me with: Unnecessary bloodbaths like Heroes in Crisis or terrible runs like New 52 TT would be ignored
So basically most things from when Didio was in charge of Editorial. Ignore away.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

As far as Batman goes, there is nothing new or weird about this. Morrison tried connecting all of Batman's history into one continuity already. I recommend everyone to listen to Morrison's theory on Kevin Smith's podcast of how all the continuity connects (granted this was Pre-New 52).