DC introducing a new wrinkle to classic continuity

[kingaliencracker]

This is pretty stupid BUT it is exactly the same thing as Marvel sliding timeline except Marvel pretends we don't notice it is changing or they aren't holes. And apparently, I use to think that was stupid but I have learned today that trying to explain that process even more stupid.

The problem though is that Marvel has continued with the sliding timeline from the beginning. Had DC done that, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Trying to rectify Batman's, Superman's, Wonder Woman's, etc. histories that are vastly different and contradictory to one another by saying it all happened to the same character makes absolutely no sense.

[HsssH]

Marvel pretends we don't notice it is changing or they aren't holes.

This is probably smartest thing DC could do at this point.

[Lee Stone]

I stopped reading when I realized that it sounded like someone trying to rationalize how Archie and the gang haven't aged in 80 years by applying real-world science.

Stop thinking so hard about it.
It's not reality.

Why are people so determined to make superhero comics 'realistic'?
Let it go.
There are other genres in comics for that.
Or there were...

[Avi]

Whoever came up with this should be fired. I don't remember when was the last time I saw something this stupid.

I mean, the someone who came up with this already got fired a year ago.

This is pretty stupid BUT it is exactly the same thing as Marvel sliding timeline except Marvel pretends we don't notice it is changing or they aren't holes. And apparently, I use to think that was stupid but I have learned today that trying to explain that process even more stupid.

This.

[SuperX]

So there are multiverse, meaning everything happened, just on a different earth

Omniverse where everything is remembered

Linearverse where everything happened and to the same characters

OK so presemt superman lives in which one again?

Keep them all separate, and you will have 3 different versions of the same character


You knkw a sliding time line or what they did with Supreme amd his revisions sound pretty good ways to handle things too

[HsssH]

I mean, the someone who came up with this already got fired a year ago.

Didio? Wasn't 5G opposite of what we have here?

[BlueRuggo]

It will be less complicated than it has been. Actually, the idea of the omniverse + linearverse simplifies things. For twenty years we've been dealing with a mish-mash of alternate realities and timelines, leaving us unsure as to what should be acknowledged as having happened. Things that were once canon either get written out in a very artificial way, like New 52's Clark and Diana romance, while other romances are abandoned totally -- like Kyle Rayner and Carol Ferris relationship. Those relationships had some very loud, irrational haters, but retconning them out during rebirth felt like an even bigger betrayal. This omniverse change means we no longer have to be concerned with what the characters know or have experienced, because now they remember all of those events and relationships. It may take getting used to but some characters have already hinted that they have such awareness. For example, we've seen Bunker recall somehow having been in New 52's Teen Titans team a couple times already. Not a big deal.

As for the lengthening of age in the linearverse, I'm not sure what the problem is. If you wish for your favorite characters to remember any of their pre52 origins from the 1990s or before, then how do you justify disliking the idea of 2021's current Batman having lived since the 1930s? "Time flows differently in comics." Okay, that only works up to a point though: like the point where we see someone's origin story retold and in it characters are inexplicably using cell phones instead of corded phones or are driving a hybrid instead of some 1950s' Volkswagen Beetle style car. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, does it? The age problem in comics will always be there. Writing the trait into the universe seems no more irrational than having characters pretend like their past never happened in the way it was written or depicted.

[Lee Stone]

About the JSA/Barry/Jay/Superman thing...
And pretty much everything else I could think of at the moment...

If Barry read the comic with Jay, but Jay wasn't from this Earth...
And Superman was the same Superman in both the JSA and the JLA...
Does that mean that-
A. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman moved to Earth-1 when the JSA retired?
B. Or were they already on Earth-1, and Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman visited Earth-2 long enough to join the JSA?
C. The Superman from Earth-1 teaming up with the Superman from Earth-2, and the Batman from Earth-1 teaming up with the Batman from Earth-2, were basically time-travel stories now, with them teaming up with their younger selves?
D. Wonder Woman has a daughter (Fury).
E. Batman and Catwoman have a daughter (original Huntress).
F. Black Canary I was a member of the JSA, her daughter joined the JLA as Black Canary II thinking she really was Black Canary I (as per JLA 220).
G. The founding members of the JLA are Aquaman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern (Hal), Martian Manhunter, Superman, Wonder Woman with maybe Black Canary (since all stories happened), and Triumph (also since all stories happened). So Triumph was simply erased and forgotten, but Dinah was a member later.
So did she appear for the origin, and go back to the JSA to rejoin the JLA later?

[kingaliencracker]

I stopped reading when I realized that it sounded like someone trying to rationalize how Archie and the gang haven't aged in 80 years by applying real-world science.

Stop thinking so hard about it.
It's not reality.

Why are people so determined to make superhero comics 'realistic'?
Let it go.
There are other genres in comics for that.
Or there were...

I don't think fans are thinking too hard about this. I think DC is thinking too hard about this. John Byrne once said that the best way to address conflicting or contradictory continuity in comic books is don't address it. DC makes this way more complicated than it needs to be.

[Lee Stone]

I don't think fans are thinking too hard about this. I think DC is thinking too hard about this. John Byrne once said that the best way to address conflicting or contradictory continuity in comic books is don't address it. DC makes this way more complicated than it needs to be.

Ironically, John Byrne also agreed to do Superman only if he could reboot him.
Which sorta relieved him from the position of having to address conflicting or contradictory continuity.

[BlueRuggo]

I stopped reading when I realized that it sounded like someone trying to rationalize how Archie and the gang haven't aged in 80 years by applying real-world science.

Stop thinking so hard about it.
It's not reality.

Why are people so determined to make superhero comics 'realistic'?
Let it go.
There are other genres in comics for that.
Or there were...

You're sort of missing the boat. This upcoming change is designed so they will no longer need to rationalize any further disparities in timelines and age, actually, while offering an explanation to those who expect one. I don't, but many fans would.

[kingaliencracker]

It will be less complicated than it has been. Actually, the idea of the omniverse + linearverse simplifies things. For twenty years we've been dealing with a mish-mash of alternate realities and timelines, leaving us unsure as to what should be acknowledged as having happened. Things that were once canon either get written out in a very artificial way, like New 52's Clark and Diana romance, while other romances are abandoned totally -- like Kyle Rayner and Carol Ferris relationship. Those relationships had some very loud, irrational haters, but retconning them out during rebirth felt like an even bigger betrayal. This omniverse change means we no longer have to be concerned with what the characters know or have experienced, because now they remember all of those events and relationships. It may take getting used to but some characters have already hinted that they have such awareness. For example, we've seen Bunker recall somehow having been in New 52's Teen Titans team a couple times already. Not a big deal.

As for the lengthening of age in the linearverse, I'm not sure what the problem is. If you wish for your favorite characters to remember any of their pre52 origins from the 1990s or before, then how do you justify disliking the idea of 2021's current Batman having lived since the 1930s? "Time flows differently in comics." Okay, that only works up to a point though: like the point where see someone's "origin story" retold and characters are inexplicably using cell phones instead of corded phones or are driving a hybrid instead of some 1950s' Volkswagen Beetle style car.

The age problem in comics will always be there. Writing the trait into the universe seems no more irrational than having characters pretend like their past never happened in the way it was written or depicted.

As someone pointed out, the Golden Age (or Earth 2 Batman) married Salina Kyle, had a child, and eventually died. You can't rectify that with current Batman even if you argue that he began in the 30's and time runs slower in comics, and that's substantially different than "corded phones versus cell phones". There are similar issues with Superman and Wonder Woman as well.

This isn't about a sliding time scale or age of characters. Fans honestly don't care about that stuff. But there are significant contradictory histories between all the reboots and retcons DC has implemented over the years, and trying to say it all happened to the same character is less sensible than a total reboot.

[kingaliencracker]

Ironically, John Byrne also agreed to do Superman only if he could reboot him.
Which sorta relieved him from the position of having to address conflicting or contradictory continuity.

Actually Byrne has stated the opposite, at least on his website. His stance was that he was always willing to do Superman regardless of the reboot and that he could have implemented his desired changes as well as DC's with the pre-Crisis continuity in tact.

Having said that, I realize the irony of someone like Byrne talking about continuity in that manner given his track record. But it doesn't make the point less valid.

[Factor]

This is pretty stupid BUT it is exactly the same thing as Marvel sliding timeline except Marvel pretends we don't notice it is changing or they aren't holes. And apparently, I use to think that was stupid but I have learned today that trying to explain that process even more stupid.

Marvel's continuity is not even close to DC's mess and they don't pretend the current heroes debuted in the 60s.
It isn't even close to DC's Linearverse, where characters are supposed to remember every reboot AND some have been around since the 30s without having aged more than 10 or 15 years.

[Lee Stone]

Actually Byrne has stated the opposite, at least on his website. His stance was that he was always willing to do Superman regardless of the reboot and that he could have implemented his desired changes as well as DC's with the pre-Crisis continuity in tact.

Having said that, I realize the irony of someone like Byrne talking about continuity in that manner given his track record. But it doesn't make the point less valid.

I do agree, btw.
One of the reasons I really liked the JLA '91 mini-series is that while it may have been set on Earth-1, it could also easily fit on Earth-2 following the original run in All-Star Comics.