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  1. #256
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Well that's just disappointing

    I mean I can still have fun constructing a timeline based on what they're writing in the present, and I'm sure even with Linearverse they'll do that anyway, but having some sort of rule in the back story helps narrow things down.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 02-27-2021 at 12:07 PM.

  2. #257
    Mighty Member brandnewfan's Avatar
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    Reading the first post only (not the 18 pages of follow up)...

    Utterly ridiculous and completely inaccessible to new fans.

    DC needs to just pick a timeline and f’ing stick to it for once.

  3. #258
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I think we are long past the time for a definite, conclusive universe as far as DC is concerned. No more 'main' universe, just create continuity bubbles and let creators run wild in them.

    You want a universe where Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are young, hip and at the beginning of their careers? Here you go.

    You want a universe where the Trinity are old and the main roster is filled with diverse legacy characters? Hop on here to this book.

    You want a universe where the JSA predates Superman? There is a book for that too.

    You want a universe where the trinity was a part of the JSA? Here is the book for you.

    You want a universe that's based on the shows or movies you grew up watching? Step right this way.

  4. #259
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    You want a universe where Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are young, hip and at the beginning of their careers? Here you go.

    You want a universe where the Trinity are old and the main roster is filled with diverse legacy characters? Hop on here to this book.

    You want a universe where the JSA predates Superman? There is a book for that too.

    You want a universe where the trinity was a part of the JSA? Here is the book for you.

    You want a universe that's based on the shows or movies you grew up watching? Step right this way.
    Biggest problems are how many books you can carry, figuring out which versions of which characters will sell enough, and having a easy way to keep them all straight so that readers know what they are getting when the pick up a book. After that, is not making a tangled mess of continuity within a given "bubble."

    If they could sell it, they'd do it. But I just don't know they can. I do wonder if it would be even more Batheavy, though, as Bats is the biggest seller, and might be the only one showing up in (almost) every version. They really, really, need to work on that type of diversification, too, I think. But maybe I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 02-27-2021 at 04:26 PM.

  5. #260
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    If there wasn't a main universe anymore, all the books would be variations of the JL and the Trinity.
    It would be even worse than now, because then DC would really only focus on different versions of their most popular characters. They wouldn't publish a book about what the Swamp Thing from the "young and hip" universe is doing.
    The main shared universe helps sustain some of the lesser known properties, IMO.

  6. #261
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    I hope this post doesn't transgress Board policy, but I am really scratching my head on how the Death Metal stuff and Scott Snyder doorknob stuff ever saw publication. I am shocked. Truly shocked. This stuff has eaten up YEARS of readers' time. I really would like to know what that decision making process was.

  7. #262
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    Event comics sells especially stuff where the deckchairs are rearranged again and again. CoiE has taught DC that much. Of course the problem is that the past twenty years of attrition has made DC incapable of actually rebuilding the brand after the Crisis like the post-Crisis continuity under Kahn. Instead it's just events and mediocre stories afterwards because they have scared away their competent talent.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 02-27-2021 at 07:19 PM.

  8. #263
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
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    I'm trying not to hate on this, but as others said...it's just...confusing, convoluting, absurd...stupid, basically.

    I'll just say I'm glad that other things in my life have taken over my comic time, which has effectively made me care less about continuity/universes, and just simply care more about the quality of the comic or specific characters. I'll keep reading anything Swamp Thing, any non-main-continuity WW, any Tom King mini, and any general story arc that seems interesting or has a creative team I like. ...Guess that actually still covers a lot lol.
    Comics were definitely happier, breezier and more confident in their own strengths before Hollywood and the Internet turned the business of writing superhero stories into the production of low budget storyboards or, worse, into conformist, fruitless attempts to impress or entertain a small group of people who appear to hate comics and their creators. -- Grant Morrison, 2008

    Sometimes things are special because they don't last. -- Zhi, Tales from the Loop

  9. #264
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I hope this post doesn't transgress Board policy, but I am really scratching my head on how the Death Metal stuff and Scott Snyder doorknob stuff ever saw publication. I am shocked. Truly shocked. This stuff has eaten up YEARS of readers' time. I really would like to know what that decision making process was.
    Yeah, I'm still pissed about that too. There was a moment when it seemed like the end of Doomsday Clock, the end of Batman Rebirth, and something in Superman was all going to dovetail into a new status-quo, especially since the fathers of Superman and Batman had both returned.

    It was just a coincidence that, for the first time in 80 years, Batman and Superman had their fathers back and that they had them back at the exact same time? WTAF?

    I'm almost never concerned about continuity but this time it seemed they were headed toward some sort of universe-wide, mind-blowing story and then just decided to blow it off at the last minute. That was damn disappointing, not because of anything to do with continuity but because of the unfulfilled potential and the dropping of enormous and ultimately discarded hints like those damn doorknobs that added up to nothing. The return of Jor-El added up to absolutely nothing. The return of Thomas Wayne had a bit more to it but its potential was also unfulfilled, due (IMO) to kicking King off the book before he got to finish that storyline and making him fit 25 issues into something like 10.

    And then too Doomsday Clock, which seemed like it might be the key to all of that, had a purely banal ending. I understand creator delays and I'm okay with them if it means something great will come of taking more time. But the entire, amazing HBO Watchmen series ran, from start to finish, episode 1-9, in between Doomsday Clock issues 11 and 12, shining a blinding light on just how lame Johns' story had been. 2019 was not a good year for DC, with the tremendous exception of that HBO series which I count as the best live-action superhero anything ever.

  10. #265
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I hope this post doesn't transgress Board policy, but I am really scratching my head on how the Death Metal stuff and Scott Snyder doorknob stuff ever saw publication. I am shocked. Truly shocked. This stuff has eaten up YEARS of readers' time. I really would like to know what that decision-making process was.
    Snyder's story brings money so they just let him do what he wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Yeah, I'm still pissed about that too. There was a moment when it seemed like the end of Doomsday Clock, the end of Batman Rebirth, and something in Superman was all going to dovetail into a new status-quo, especially since the fathers of Superman and Batman had both returned.

    It was just a coincidence that, for the first time in 80 years, Batman and Superman had their fathers back and that they had them back at the exact same time? WTAF?

    I'm almost never concerned about continuity but this time it seemed they were headed toward some sort of universe-wide, mind-blowing story and then just decided to blow it off at the last minute. That was damn disappointing, not because of anything to do with continuity but because of the unfulfilled potential and the dropping of enormous and ultimately discarded hints like those damn doorknobs that added up to nothing. The return of Jor-El added up to absolutely nothing. The return of Thomas Wayne had a bit more to it but its potential was also unfulfilled, due (IMO) to kicking King off the book before he got to finish that storyline and making him fit 25 issues into something like 10.

    And then too Doomsday Clock, which seemed like it might be the key to all of that, had a purely banal ending. I understand creator delays and I'm okay with them if it means something great will come of taking more time. But the entire, amazing HBO Watchmen series ran, from start to finish, episode 1-9, in between Doomsday Clock issues 11 and 12, shining a blinding light on just how lame Johns' story had been. 2019 was not a good year for DC, with the tremendous exception of that HBO series which I count as the best live-action superhero anything ever.
    Jor-El's story is supposed to be tied to Dr. Manhattan, but after Bendis comes, they also let him do what he wants and actually rewrite Jor-El's story... but this one's not just him. Didio's already planning to make 5G and if I heard correctly, aging up Jon is not Bendis' idea. So in order to do that, they scrapped Johns' Jor-El plan, and make a new one where Jor-El took Jon to space, got lost, and coming home aged up.

    (The other 5G plan is to make Damian left Robin so he's not a competition for future Batman. That's also when that run of Teen Titans where he imprisoned and torture villains began.)

    Johns did tease 5G at the end of Doomsday Clock, but at this point, he's no longer... CCO? So whatever was planned for after DdC, it was cancelled and replaced with 5G
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 02-27-2021 at 10:43 PM.

  11. #266
    Spectacular Member gambit2051's Avatar
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    If the "Linearverse" is just a Universe that is a part of the DC Multiverse (I will not use their buzzword -verse names, because literally all of them are nothing more than part of the Infinite Multiverse that exists in our gd Imaginations) then why spend literal pages explaining it rather than just say "This is Universe-123456 of the new DC Infinite Multiverse"......but even that is too much to ask, and that is the main point of this thread at this point it feels like. Pointing out that DC is literally making the same mistakes over and over faster and faster...quite literally. Each time their Universe "Reboot" has not worked, they have literally just tried Another Reboot with a new buzz phrase.
    By just claiming "it is a part of the Omniverse *twitch*" it honestly is contributing to the same exact problem we have all been claiming about. Lack of any clear Editorial Direction.
    If you are going to refute, you need to do your own research.

  12. #267
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    I am very thankful for the Watchmen series on HBO. That show and the cartoon Harley Quinn actually showed that something good and thoughtful with the DC characters. I hope it gets better in the future.

    Meanwhile, Marvel--the film and streaming side--are delivering all kinds of win (All. KINNNNDDDSSSS). It makes me a bit fearful for the future of the DC characters. What happens when the iconic cease to be icons or when newer better handled properties supersede them in the public eye?

  13. #268
    Spectacular Member gambit2051's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I am very thankful for the Watchmen series on HBO. That show and the cartoon Harley Quinn actually showed that something good and thoughtful with the DC characters. I hope it gets better in the future.

    Meanwhile, Marvel--the film and streaming side--are delivering all kinds of win (All. KINNNNDDDSSSS). It makes me a bit fearful for the future of the DC characters. What happens when the iconic cease to be icons or when newer better handled properties supersede them in the public eye?
    Re: Watchmen Series: I will only say that the main villain was a Doctor Doom knock-off with even less depth. We were shown a 10 feet deep pool and hit concrete when her plan really was revealed, that is what it felt like to me and why I can not forgive that series for that...it just compounded all the other issues that i had been giving a pass until that last episode.
    LOVE Harley Quinn though and it along with Young Justice and Doom Patrol are the best things that DC has going for it Media-wise. It is really sad because DC has an incredibly SOLID History with Small Screen adaptations when the Producers are not being forced to shoehorn in new Characters or Costumes for Toy Purposes.
    The Arrowverse...it just feels Dated now thanks to Marvel and Disney+, but it was already feeling that way (The Flash always being stuck with Speed Villains for soooo many seaons right at the start was really what started to cause me to really notice just how bad it was getting) for several years.
    Then there are shows like Green Lantern Animated that got 26 episodes but never had a real chance. Beware the Batman was seriously mishandled (the series should be called Bat-Lips Begins. Batman's character design was the real killer for that series imo, that and how empty everything always felt).
    Then there are the DC Animated Legacy Shows (which is what they should refer to anything that is pre-DC Universe honestly) like Batman TAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Unlimited, Teen Titans, TT Go, and even Superman. Pretty much all of them without Batman in the title always felt like they were about to be cancelled...that is what I remember about those beloved series. Young Justice was cancelled due to Toy Sales. Adding all of THAT Baggage to what AT&T brought in WITH THEM?!?!?......phew....

    I do find it hilarious that the powers that be don't see what Disney is finally allowing Dave Filoni to do (after spending how many Years literally proving time and again that he was the best choice) with Star Wars and haven't discussed giving Wiseman and Vietti something more than Young Justice. They are already proving how much they can juggle.

    People like them are who DC Comics really needs as their EiC at the moment imo. Those who have shown they can think and juggle Big.
    If you are going to refute, you need to do your own research.

  14. #269
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think the best thing DC could do at this point is-
    1. Do a light continuity where each ‘family’ of books takes place in its own corner and doesn’t create big enough ripples to effect the other families.
    2. Remove Batman and Superman from the League temporarily. They already have too many books, and having them in the League complicates the continuity when you’re trying to lighten it down.
    3. No line-wide events requiring books to cross-over.
    4. No metal-fiction regarding continuity, time-travel, multiple earths or anything typically ‘Crisis’ related.

    Do this for about five years.
    By then, the slate would be clean again and you can start mingling everyone back together.

    DC just needs to step back and take a breath. Really.
    Five years would be a good amount of time to do just that.
    My opinion, of course.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  15. #270
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    3. No line-wide events requiring books to cross-over.
    That's simply not going to happen. Line wide events and crossovers are needed to maintain sales due to the shrinking readerbase. Trying to enforce a no-crossover rule denies that the fundamentals of the direct market has changed and it goes back to a core problem with the previous publishing regime in that they treated DC like their personal fan club and not as a business out to make money. It seems like the internet fandom in general hasn't been able to deal with how much the publishing unit is dependent on putting out crossovers and seem to want to turn the clock back to an era that's no longer feasible in the current environment. And DC has become dependent on selling "Crises" because of the cost cutting and contractions in their publishing unit under the new regime and the total mismanagement of various ongoings by the previous regime. But even if they had competent leadership, 24/7 crossovers are still going to be the status quo, there's too much money there.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 03-01-2021 at 10:26 AM.

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