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  1. #211
    Fantastic Member Bad Witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abetterday View Post
    I wasn't expecting to like this book but I do. Ridley is easily one of DC's best writers.

    I feel the same way. I thought dark detective was superior to the next batman and I also feel that detective is better than barman right now.

    When future state was announced I groaned. I was happy 5g never happened but now I'm not so sure. If, excuse me I forget who is writing detectives name, and Ridley were given the books in January and allowed to tell the story f Rom beginning to end, instead of from end to beginning with tynions bullshit smeared all over it, I think it would be amazing.

    I never thought I'd say this but I really like this and think it's fresh and exciting.

  2. #212
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askia View Post
    I just now caught up and it was a very smooth read and I'm very impressed by Ridley. He's doing an amazing job fleshing out Jace's character, as well as building a world for him to exist in.

    I really like that Jace's "gangsta" background was changed to the accident and I'm looking forward to the role it plays moving forward.

    That being said, I'm not a fan of Katana being involved. After the soft reset, she is already heavily tied to Duke, Jefferson, and now potentially Jace....
    This is just reminding me of how Katana was in Beware the Batman. It's like they're turning her into a Gotham character.

  3. #213
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    The Penultimate issue is upon us and Jace's origins are almost complete, with next issue being the conclusion. But while this may be about Jace's origins this issue is more about his mother figures, basically Katana and his actual mother Tanya and how they deal with his separate problems; Katana with Jace being Stabbed and Tanya's legal troubles.

    So obviously I'm starting off with Katana, who as they point out in this issue is looking older and sporting a bit of gray in her hair as to represent Infinite Frontier whole history aspect and that she has been around a while but honestly its hardly noticeable. Anyway she basically saves Jace from the assassin who we learned is named the Morrigan and is a bit of a legend and then the police who Katana is having none of their anti-mask mandate and has no problem kicking a few in the face. But hey after taking a beating Jace got his bag so hopefully he can really learn what is going on with his target in Gotham city. Afterwards he finally gets his heart to heart with her about how he messed up as a kid and feels the need to make up for it but also that it at least made him a better man today. But Katana basically tells him that she trained him better then this, confirming their new shared history, and he needs to be better not for himself but because his self-destruction will only hurt those who care about him. It then ends with the most blatant Bat-foreshadowing ever telling him to be a symbol of something better.

    By the way, brief aside but during this talk they discuss his name but not what it means only that Katana thought it meant he had forgiven himself, so I actually looked up what Jace means in Japanese....it has no meaning there but apparently its of Greek and Hebrew origin. Greek meaning Healer and Hebrew name meaning Lord of Salvation. Ironically its also short for Jason, so now Tim Drake and Jason Todd fans got that in common towards Jace. But the Lord of Salvation part speaks volumes considering how Jace feels about himself after the traffic incident, because its clear he wants to find salvation and to forgive himself. Not sure if that is what Ridley had in mind but its an interesting find.

    As for Jace's mom Tanya she takes care of the legal problem once and for all, with a huge payoff and a non disclosure agreement that Lucius may not know about. Basically do not say anything and take the money, but she tries to give it in a way that the wife's husband that died was an abuser. The wife accepts the offer, but the son is mad and hints that he will use the money to get back at the Foxes....to which Tanya replies basically I'll write that off as heat of the moment but if you try you better bring your A-game. It's a very morally grey area to begin with, it definitely feels like Tanya is using her legal power and influence to silence a problem but not in the way that a villain would do it. Either way it does draw a modern parallel to Lucius' own actions in the past but again is not written as evil but as someone using what they have to protect what is theirs. It's very gray and comes with complex feelings.
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    The Penultimate issue is upon us and Jace's origins are almost complete, with next issue being the conclusion. But while this may be about Jace's origins this issue is more about his mother figures, basically Katana and his actual mother Tanya and how they deal with his separate problems; Katana with Jace being Stabbed and Tanya's legal troubles.

    So obviously I'm starting off with Katana, who as they point out in this issue is looking older and sporting a bit of gray in her hair as to represent Infinite Frontier whole history aspect and that she has been around a while but honestly its hardly noticeable. Anyway she basically saves Jace from the assassin who we learned is named the Morrigan and is a bit of a legend and then the police who Katana is having none of their anti-mask mandate and has no problem kicking a few in the face. But hey after taking a beating Jace got his bag so hopefully he can really learn what is going on with his target in Gotham city. Afterwards he finally gets his heart to heart with her about how he messed up as a kid and feels the need to make up for it but also that it at least made him a better man today. But Katana basically tells him that she trained him better then this, confirming their new shared history, and he needs to be better not for himself but because his self-destruction will only hurt those who care about him. It then ends with the most blatant Bat-foreshadowing ever telling him to be a symbol of something better.

    By the way, brief aside but during this talk they discuss his name but not what it means only that Katana thought it meant he had forgiven himself, so I actually looked up what Jace means in Japanese....it has no meaning there but apparently its of Greek and Hebrew origin. Greek meaning Healer and Hebrew name meaning Lord of Salvation. Ironically its also short for Jason, so now Tim Drake and Jason Todd fans got that in common towards Jace. But the Lord of Salvation part speaks volumes considering how Jace feels about himself after the traffic incident, because its clear he wants to find salvation and to forgive himself. Not sure if that is what Ridley had in mind but its an interesting find.

    As for Jace's mom Tanya she takes care of the legal problem once and for all, with a huge payoff and a non disclosure agreement that Lucius may not know about. Basically do not say anything and take the money, but she tries to give it in a way that the wife's husband that died was an abuser. The wife accepts the offer, but the son is mad and hints that he will use the money to get back at the Foxes....to which Tanya replies basically I'll write that off as heat of the moment but if you try you better bring your A-game. It's a very morally grey area to begin with, it definitely feels like Tanya is using her legal power and influence to silence a problem but not in the way that a villain would do it. Either way it does draw a modern parallel to Lucius' own actions in the past but again is not written as evil but as someone using what they have to protect what is theirs. It's very gray and comes with complex feelings.
    There's a certain level of catharsis from seeing the Foxes operate in a not villainous but still gray area of operation.
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  5. #215
    Spectacular Member Askia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    It's not hyperbolic, since Katana's ties to Duke are not at all heavy, even when you factor in the Future State thing. And in Hill's Outsiders, which introduced them being on the same team in the first place, they did indeed barely interact with one another. Such interactions were fleeting, not very deep, and was little more than the tangential vehicle towards having Katana and Lady Shiva battle out their philosophies and later their fists. That means the only thing hyperbolic is the insinuation that Katana's ties to Duke are heavy.

    The other point of contention lies in why Katana having any ties with 3 different Black characters (each in different ways and to different extents) should be considered relevantly noteworthy at all. This type of questioning doesn't happen in the same and considerably more expansive scenarios where the characters are White.

    I've never said Katana is heavily tied to Duke. I'm not sure why what I typed is being twisted for the second time, but I'll try to do a better job at making myself more clear.

    Regarding the second point; I already stated my reasoning, so no point in repeating myself.
    Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how many people you brought with you. – Dr Wil Rose

  6. #216

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    Katana's fine but I was hoping for a deeper cut like Onyx and Orpheus.

    I thought it was a fine denouement but I'm curious how he puts on the suit in the next issue.

  7. #217
    Spectacular Member Askia's Avatar
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    @sifighter - Really cool plug with the meaning of Jace

    Another good chapter. The way Ridley writes is so smooth to read.

    When the detective screams that she is looking forward to "shoot on sight" for masks, that was disturbing. I am hoping she gets a punch in the mouth at some point.

    The only thing that was a bit off to me is that there was a little build up with Morrigan's character over the series, then she just gets toyed with in this chapter making her irrelevant.

    I'm looking forward to the finale and I'm hoping Jace gets to shine.
    Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how many people you brought with you. – Dr Wil Rose

  8. #218
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    I wasn't sold on Jace in FS, but this series has been really good.
    “Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving.”
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  9. #219
    Incredible Member Eto's Avatar
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    While yes she's a bit tied to Gotham, she's not a fully OG Bat-character.
    I'm not keen on the fact that Jace may may don the cowl due to her speech.
    Apart from that, I think it's a decent issue. Only one issue left right? After that one, any plans yet for Jace?

  10. #220
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    While yes she's a bit tied to Gotham, she's not a fully OG Bat-character.
    I'm not keen on the fact that Jace may may don the cowl due to her speech.
    Apart from that, I think it's a decent issue. Only one issue left right? After that one, any plans yet for Jace?
    Didn't she debut in a story called Batman & the Outsiders? That's about as OG Bat-character as it gets, you splits? (I just made up that last part haha.)

  11. #221
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    While yes she's a bit tied to Gotham, she's not a fully OG Bat-character.
    I'm not keen on the fact that Jace may may don the cowl due to her speech.
    Apart from that, I think it's a decent issue. Only one issue left right? After that one, any plans yet for Jace?
    He's getting a full blown minseries after this.

  12. #222
    Incredible Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Didn't she debut in a story called Batman & the Outsiders? That's about as OG Bat-character as it gets, you splits? (I just made up that last part haha.)
    Yeah, I know but she's still her on character rather loosely connected and not this heavily connected.

  13. #223
    Incredible Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    He's getting a full blown minseries after this.
    nice!
    Good to know.

  14. #224

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    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Screech_Owl_(Future_State)

    I'm hoping the Screech Owl pops up. He was implied to have beef with Jace in the Future State so I'm curious what caused it.

    Sigfighter mentioned Vengeance (Bane's daughter) fighting Jace and I'm ok with that.

    And there's always the terrible trio .

  15. #225
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Screech_Owl_(Future_State)

    I'm hoping the Screech Owl pops up. He was implied to have beef with Jace in the Future State so I'm curious what caused it.

    Sigfighter mentioned Vengeance (Bane's daughter) fighting Jace and I'm ok with that.

    And there's always the terrible trio .
    Well the Vegeance fight is entirely speculation on my part, the thing I just can’t see them not doing it. I mean at the exact same time we are building up a new Batman in Jace we are seeing the introduction of a new Bane character with Vengeance. You can’t tell me that DC isn’t already thinking of how to get these two characters together in the same book.

    As for the Screech Owl, well the court of owls did just make a reappearance in Joker and that one blonde woman has a big tough dude so....whose to say.
    Last edited by sifighter; 05-12-2021 at 03:04 PM.
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