Death Star vs borg cubes

[Mider2009]

The Borg weren't able to adapt to it, but not because it was a planet destroying blast. They need to get hit a few times to analyze it and adapt. With Species 8472, they couldn't do that because they kept getting one shotted.

They couldn’t adapt due to the type of energy

[The MunchKING]

They couldn’t adapt due to the type of energy

They never showed the ability to adapt to that amount of damage either.

[Slade1]

They couldn’t adapt due to the type of energy

Not true. It was never once stated that that was the case.

[Slade1]

And they will get one shotted by the DSII, so that still works is my point.

I never argued against your point about the DS. I was arguing why they couldn't adapt.

[Shai-Hulud]

Wookiepedia has some conflicting stuff on it's armament so I'm going with the smaller numbers and assuming it's what was already installed vs what was intended but it seems like it would have had 10,000 heavy turbolaser batteries and 10,000 light turbolaser batteries, along with about 95,000 various other weapons(laser/ion cannons, various missile launchers) and 440 heavy tractor beams. We know you can hammer through their shields eventually given the Federation fleet had done so when the Enterprise arrived in First Contact, so I really don't see them standing up to that kind of firepower even without the superlaser. Death Star could also likely hold them in place with the tractor beams, which also might defend against the transporters even if the shields don't since exotic radiation/energy fields/gravity/ whatever tends to play havoc on them too

Still thinking about this Rumble.

I think the Borg can take it.

They know to evade the planet-destroying beam (basic knowledge). What they have to do is survive the Death Star's secondary weaponry long enough to beam on boarding parties.

The fight begins and two Borg cubes retreat out of range. One Borg cube engages, but only defensively. They max out their shields, regeneration, scanners, communication and evasive maneuvers. No energy for offensive purposes.

That cube only has to stay functional long enough to scan the Death Star's shields and communicate this information to the other cubes. Then the other cubes can swing by and beam out boarding parties.

The lone cube should also have transmitted data about the Death Star's weaponry, and the other two cubes will have adapted their Borg shielding before they move back into range.

So those two cubes will be highly resistant if not immune to the Death Star's secondary weaponry, perhaps everything but the planet-laser, which they simply avoid with evasive maneuvers.

Will the Borg do this? Depends if they can conclude this from basic knowledge, if the fact of the Death Star's massive secondary weaponry is basic knowledge. Seems plausible, I should think.

[Hiromi]

I don't think the Borg shields are truly impervious to enemy weapons even if they do match the frequency, the Federation modulation trick only works for a short time before they adapt, and yet by the time the Enterprise arrived on scene in First Contact the Cube's shields were gone, that clearly implies that enough massed fire can still overwhelm them even if they're able to counter the modulation trick, also physical weapons have a history of bypassing Borg shields entirely(the examples I can think of apply to the drone's personal shields granted, don't know if there's examples like torpedoes on Cubes)

[Shellhead]

I haven't seen Return of the Jedi since it was in theaters, but I am fairly certain that the Death Star II was under construction at the time, so it didn't have shields and was particularly vulnerable to attack. Are we using that Death Star as it was? Or are we using a completed version for purposes of this rumble?

[Shellhead]

Since the OP didn't specify otherwise, this rumble apparently takes place in the Khazan Arena, with the ships just 100 feet apart.

[Shai-Hulud]

by the time the Enterprise arrived on scene in First Contact the Cube's shields were gone, that clearly implies that enough massed fire can still overwhelm them even if they're able to counter the modulation trick

This is the battle you're referring to, the Battle of Sector 001.



I don't think we can conclude that the Borg shielding is completely gone. Ships in Trek take damage through their shielding all time. Some energy gets through and the hull and interior gets damaged. We routinely see fire and explosions going on inside Trek ships while their shields are being progressively weakened; it isn't the case that the ships stay undamaged until the shields finally drop. So I think the most we can say is the shielding has been weakened, perhaps by Federation ships continually remodulating their beams.

Federation capital ships have underestimated firepower. One hundred years ago, the original Enterprise alone had the firepower to scour a planet of life. Kirk referred to it as General Order 24 or some such. So now we're talking about a Federation fleet 100 or so years later, and packed with weaponry and tactics specially designed to counter the Borg.

Does the Death Star have the modulation trick? Without it the Borg only have to stay active for a short time, then they adapt and repair. They can rotate in and out of battle because there are three of them. If one takes too much damage it retreats to self-repair and adapt, and another cube rotates into battle.

And through it all they're beaming aboard landing parties that start assimilating the Star from inside.

The longer this battle goes on, the more I think the Borg are favored.

[Mider2009]

Not true. It was never once stated that that was the case.

Ok then why didn’t they?

[Mider2009]

I haven't seen Return of the Jedi since it was in theaters, but I am fairly certain that the Death Star II was under construction at the time, so it didn't have shields and was particularly vulnerable to attack. Are we using that Death Star as it was? Or are we using a completed version for purposes of this rumble?

For the rumble the Death Star 2 is complete because the first death star takes an hour to recharge its main weapon

[The MunchKING]

Since the OP didn't specify otherwise, this rumble apparently takes place in the Khazan Arena, with the ships just 100 feet apart.

They are going to go all Executor then. and, Spoiler alert, 1 ship walked away from that one and it wasn't the Executor.

Does the Death Star have the modulation trick? Without it the Borg only have to stay active for a short time, then they adapt and repair.

It's not using Trek's frequency-based weapons. It's using Super powered Plasma. The Borg were never shown to adapt to physical force coming at them, and indeed it was the most reliable way to kill them all the way through First Contact and beyond. I mean Worf knifed one to death, and you're not going to tell me the Borg have never seen pointy bits of metal before.

They can rotate in and out of battle because there are three of them. If one takes too much damage it retreats to self-repair and adapt, and another cube rotates into battle.

How do you self-repair from "Blasted into component atoms"? Asking for Alderaan.

And through it all they're beaming aboard landing parties that start assimilating the Star from inside.

They weren't particularly fast. If the Stormtroopers are competent, they could back away while shooting them and stay outside of the very-close range the Borg needed to hit you with the Nanite needles. I mean they could still get SHOT, but they would be used to that.

[Slade1]

Ok then why didn’t they?

As I already explained the need to take damage and survive for them to adapt. But they were all getting one or two shotted so they didn't get a chance to analyze the energy signature.

[Mider2009]

They are going to go all Executor then. and, Spoiler alert, 1 ship walked away from that one and it wasn't the Executor.




It's not using Trek's frequency-based weapons. It's using Super powered Plasma. The Borg were never shown to adapt to physical force coming at them, and indeed it was the most reliable way to kill them all the way through First Contact and beyond. I mean Worf knifed one to death, and you're not going to tell me the Borg have never seen pointy bits of metal before.



How do you self-repair from "Blasted into component atoms"? Asking for Alderaan.



They weren't particularly fast. If the Stormtroopers are competent, they could back away while shooting them and stay outside of the very-close range the Borg needed to hit you with the Nanite needles. I mean they could still get SHOT, but they would be used to that.

The borg do shoot but I don’t think that’s common? I’d need to rewatch

I think the reason they don’t shoot people often is that they want them alive to assimilate