Spider-Man: No Way Home

[Kaitou D. Kid]

The idea, Peter stuck around in Infinity War and Endgame just because he wanted to impress Tony is just do hilariously wrong, like is what is Spider-Man just supposed to ignore the aliens that are threatening the planet?

As previously stated, Peter simply being in Infinity War and Endgame fighting aliens has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I am referring to Peter's character arc in Homecoming - that is what was retconned, and it wasn't retconned by Peter simply being in Infinity War and Endgame (which there is nothing wrong with in-and-of-itself), but by how those films treat that character and the events from Homecoming.

[Metro]

As previously stated, Peter simply being in Infinity War and Endgame fighting aliens has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I am referring to Peter's character arc in Homecoming - that is what was retconned, and it wasn't retconned by Peter simply being in Infinity War and Endgame (which there is nothing wrong with in-and-of-itself), but by how those films treat that character and the events from Homecoming.

See you say that, and no explanation you've given makes any sense.
You saying it retconned Homecoming and yet I see evidence of that at all.

[Jokerz79]

I mean, it's not exactly subjective that Spider-Man's success had a lot to do with him being an empowerment metaphor for teens and for everyday working people. That's kinda part of history.

I would like to know which Stan Lee comic comes even close to portraying Spider-Man like the MCU version. I keep seeing attempts to try to find a comic equivalent to the MCU version in attitude, and there simply isn't. The only genuine equivalent I can think of are maybe the Disney XD shows.

1st Spider-Man I ever saw was from Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends and he had a cool hidden futurist crime lab in his room and it was bought and paid for by Tony Stark. So yeah I don't have an issue with Peter looking up to Tony or taking his tech.

[Frontier]

1st Spider-Man I ever saw was from Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends and he had a cool hidden futurist crime lab in his room and it was bought and paid for by Tony Stark. So yeah I don't have an issue with Peter looking up to Tony or taking his tech.

I kind of forgot about that.

Although he'd also been active as Spider-Man for a while before that happened, if I remember right.

[Jokerz79]

I kind of forgot about that.

Although he'd also been active as Spider-Man for a while before that happened, if I remember right.

Yeah he was active full costume and webshooters and all, he might had even met Iceman and Firestar already. But I remember he saved Tony from the Beetle and Tony gave him the tech as a thank you.

[Thezmage]

So are we expecting Maguire and Garfield to fulfill the movies need for Spider-Man quips that I doubt we'll get from Holland?

I don't actually get the sense from the teaser trailer that we will see Maguire or Garfield at all.

[Immortal Weapon]

Tobey Spidery never quipped. I think Garfield's only did so once.

[Frontier]

Tobey Spidery never quipped. I think Garfield's only did so once.

[green_garnish]

This is quickly going to deteriorate into a 30 page thread on the difference between quips, jokes and light-hearted dialog isn't it?

(That was a joke)

[BeastieRunner]

The little video reminded me that Ben's Spidey was the only one that really quipped. Tobey was all about the bad puns (another Spidey staple) and Tom's is all about being flippant (another Spidey staple).

Man, I wish Ben got more time ...

[Frontier]

The little video reminded me that Ben's Spidey was the only one that really quipped. Tobey was all about the bad puns (another Spidey staple) and Tom's is all about being flippant (another Spidey staple).

Man, I wish Ben got more time ...

I feel like Tom babbles more than he's outright flippant because he plays the clumsy straightman so much.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Yeah he was active full costume and webshooters and all, he might had even met Iceman and Firestar already. But I remember he saved Tony from the Beetle and Tony gave him the tech as a thank you.

The dynamic between them there is completely different, though.

IMO, MCU Tony making the gadgets for him is a symptom, and not the cause, of the problem. I would say the core problems are the ageist and classist undertones (not an issue with Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends IMO), and everything else is just surface detail that would maybe work better in a different context.

See you say that, and no explanation you've given makes any sense.
You saying it retconned Homecoming and yet I see evidence of that at all.

Homecoming ends with Peter deciding not to become an Avenger to "stick close to the ground", a decision Watts said was inspired by Spider-Man not joining the FF in ASM#1 and that Feige said was inspired by Spider-Man's working-class roots.

In other words, Peter took Toomes' words to heart and that's why he refused Tony's offer at the end. This implies that the part in Homecoming where Peter goes "That was a test, right?" was initially just a joke.

Infinity War then retcons this by kinda implying that Homecoming Peter did genuinely want to become an Avenger and said no at the end of the film simply to impress Mr. Stark. However, this doesn't seem to be what Watts had in mind when he made Homecoming.

Hope I was able to clear everything up.

[Metro]

The dynamic between them there is completely different, though.

IMO, MCU Tony making the gadgets for him is a symptom, and not the cause, of the problem. I would say the core problems are the ageist and classist undertones (not an issue with Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends IMO), and everything else is just surface detail that would maybe work better in a different context.



Homecoming ends with Peter deciding not to become an Avenger to "stick close to the ground", a decision Watts said was inspired by Spider-Man not joining the FF in ASM#1 and that Feige said was inspired by Spider-Man's working-class roots.

In other words, Peter took Toomes' words to heart and that's why he refused Tony's offer at the end. This implies that the part in Homecoming where Peter goes "That was a test, right?" was initially just a joke.

Infinity War then retcons this by kinda implying that Homecoming Peter did genuinely want to become an Avenger and said no at the end of the film simply to impress Mr. Stark. However, this doesn't seem to be what Watts had in mind when he made Homecoming.

Hope I was able to clear everything up.

You keep saying these things and giving nothing to back them up, your explanation for how IW and Endgame somehow retcon Homecoming is literally nothing more than "it does" you've never once how anything Peter says or does in those movies implies this

[green_garnish]

You keep saying these things and giving nothing to back them up, your explanation for how IW and Endgame somehow retcon Homecoming is literally nothing more than "it does" you've never once how anything Peter says or does in those movies implies this

IMO, the entire post you're replying to does exactly what you say it doesn't, and he qualifies it with "IMO" which is a critical point to me.

I personally can see his point, though it took this long for me to get there. Does Peter want to be an Avenger or doesn't he? Will he take the opportunity or won't he? The MCU seems to be of mixed minds about this, which I would chalk up to different studios owning different characters, each wanting to tell their own but slightly incongruous story about them m so it makes melding them a little perplexing.

I disagree that "this was a test, right" was a joke. He was looking for validation for his decision, which people his age do. Tony recognized this and lied in his answer.

[Jokerz79]

The dynamic between them there is completely different, though.

IMO, MCU Tony making the gadgets for him is a symptom, and not the cause, of the problem. I would say the core problems are the ageist and classist undertones (not an issue with Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends IMO), and everything else is just surface detail that would maybe work better in a different context.



Homecoming ends with Peter deciding not to become an Avenger to "stick close to the ground", a decision Watts said was inspired by Spider-Man not joining the FF in ASM#1 and that Feige said was inspired by Spider-Man's working-class roots.

In other words, Peter took Toomes' words to heart and that's why he refused Tony's offer at the end. This implies that the part in Homecoming where Peter goes "That was a test, right?" was initially just a joke.

Infinity War then retcons this by kinda implying that Homecoming Peter did genuinely want to become an Avenger and said no at the end of the film simply to impress Mr. Stark. However, this doesn't seem to be what Watts had in mind when he made Homecoming.

Hope I was able to clear everything up.

I don't get the ageist thing Peter never was Youth vs Old he spent his life taking care of his elderly Aunt. I don't even get the teen empowerment thing because Peter hasn't been a teen in the comics outside of the Ultimate Series for decades. In fact I seen a lot of fans who hate MCU Spider-Man simply because Peter is a teen and they want a Spider-"MAN" as they have only read an adult Peter.

As for being working class Peter still is his being friends with Tony and taking his tech is no different than being friends with Harry and taking a paycheck from Jonah. It's not like MCU Peter is rich.

Lastly as for Homecoming vs Infinity War I see no conflict IMO Peter was what 12 in the MCU when the Avengers showed up and saved the world in his home town. He idolized them so of course he'd want to join the Avengers, but not feeling ready isn't the same as not wanting to join them. He made mistakes in Homecoming trying to be a hero worthy of Avenger status and he realized he wasn't ready yet for it. So in Infinity War when Tony who didn't want Peter there but saw he was now ready and bestowed Avengers Status Peter felt pride. Peter's main idol just said you're ready to join the big leagues and unlike Civil War where Tony needed Soldiers to capture Cap and his side or Homecoming where offering Peter Avenger Status at the end felt like Tony saying "I'm Sorry" Infinity War felt like Peter earned it hence his pride.

Also as for Peter turning down the FF in ASM #1 I'd like to point out he only did it because the FF were a non profit and Peter wanted a pay check.

I respect you're opinion that you feel the MCU Spidey doesn't match your idea of Spider-Man but unless they're violating a core principle of the character I don't get the issue since no adaption will ever match everyone's own versions of the character so long as the story is good I say go for the ride and hope the next adaption matches your wants more.

Because trust Sony ain't never giving those rights back we'll get another Peter Parker someday.