Spider-Man: No Way Home

[Scott Taylor]

Exactly. Peter turned down the FF because they weren't going to pay him.

I personally think that he turned Tony's offer down because he didn't want to be forced to hang with a bunch of old people. But when he was in space and saw an opportunity for major shenanigans (and adventure), well that was a more intriguing situation. At no point in Infinity War or Endgame did he ever ask to be an Avenger. Tony just made the spur-of-the-moment decision to "knight" him as one while they were flying to Titan. Far from an official induction, and then Tony died within like a day later, Peter time (if you take out the blip time).

In other words, he wasn't an Avenger in FFH, and he wasn't one in what came after either, and he still is not an Avenger.

[green_garnish]

Exactly. Peter turned down the FF because they weren't going to pay him.

I personally think that he turned Tony's offer down because he didn't want to be forced to hang with a bunch of old people. But when he was in space and saw an opportunity for major shenanigans (and adventure), well that was a more intriguing situation. At no point in Infinity War or Endgame did he ever ask to be an Avenger. Tony just made the spur-of-the-moment decision to "knight" him as one while they were flying to Titan. Far from an official induction, and then Tony died within like a day later, Peter time (if you take out the blip time).

In other words, he wasn't an Avenger in FFH, and he wasn't one in what came after either, and he still is not an Avenger.

I think from Peter's perspective, he was an Avenger when Tony said he was. At that point, Tony was, de facto, the Avengers. Certainly a 15 year old would interpret him that way.

[Metro]

IMO, the entire post you're replying to does exactly what you say it doesn't, and he qualifies it with "IMO" which is a critical point to me.

I personally can see his point, though it took this long for me to get there. Does Peter want to be an Avenger or doesn't he? Will he take the opportunity or won't he? The MCU seems to be of mixed minds about this, which I would chalk up to different studios owning different characters, each wanting to tell their own but slightly incongruous story about them m so it makes melding them a little perplexing.

I disagree that "this was a test, right" was a joke. He was looking for validation for his decision, which people his age do. Tony recognized this and lied in his answer.

You say it explains things and not once do I see where, the post says IW/Endgame it retconned and not once is stated how they did

[green_garnish]

In other words, Peter took Toomes' words to heart and that's why he refused Tony's offer at the end. This implies that the part in Homecoming where Peter goes "That was a test, right?" was initially just a joke.

Infinity War then retcons this by kinda implying that Homecoming Peter did genuinely want to become an Avenger and said no at the end of the film simply to impress Mr. Stark.

You say it explains things and not once do I see where, the post says IW/Endgame it retconned and not once is stated how they did

While I disagree with the "this was a test" part of the assertion, I'm at a loss to understand what you want the poster to say further to make his point.

[Metro]

While I disagree with the "this was a test" part of the assertion, I'm at a loss to understand what you want the poster to say further to make his point.

To actually explain how IW/Endgame supposedly retconned Homecoming, there is no elaboration whatsoever or pointing to any moments to make this case.
Like they say Infinity War implies Peter declined being an Avenger just to impress Tony and doesn't say where, or when in the movie it happened

[green_garnish]

To actually explain how IW/Endgame supposedly retconned Homecoming, there is no elaboration whatsoever or pointing to any moments to make this case.
Like they say Infinity War implies Peter declined being an Avenger just to impress Tony and doesn't say where, or when in the movie it happened

I think you have to look at the scene in IW and put it all in context. If you're looking for a line of dialog, that's not reasonable. Holland's acting, the way Peter responded to Tony's "knighting," both in the scene and subsequent scenes, holds the answer.

[Metro]

I think you have to look at the scene in IW and put it all in context. If you're looking for a line of dialog, that's not reasonable. Holland's acting, the way Peter responded to Tony's "knighting," both in the scene and subsequent scenes, holds the answer.

The problem is they don't even say they're talking that scene though.
They just say IW and Endgame which doesn't tell me much.

[green_garnish]

The problem is they don't even say they're talking that scene though.
They just say IW and Endgame which doesn't tell me much.

There is an assumption that you've seen the movies, yes.

If one's interpretation of the acting is different than another's, to me that's the beauty of acting and theater. My view doesn't match someone else's. OK, that doesn't make anyone right or wrong. No one is obligated to prove their point. If there's a position of "This is my view and if you don't see it you're wrong" that's a different matter, but I don't really see that happened here, at least not in the later posts.

Now if you want to get into more technical details like VFX and say something like "this movie has innovative effects" when they are really regurgitated from something else a decade before, then that's a different subject all together.

[Metro]

There is an assumption that you've seen the movies, yes.

If one's interpretation of the acting is different than another's, to me that's the beauty of acting and theater. My view doesn't match someone else's. OK, that doesn't make anyone right or wrong. No one is obligated to prove their point. If there's a position of "This is my view and if you don't see it you're wrong" that's a different matter, but I don't really see that happened here, at least not in the later posts.

Now if you want to get into more technical details like VFX and say something like "this movie has innovative effects" when they are really regurgitated from something else a decade before, then that's a different subject all together.

Assuming someone's seen the movies doesn't matter, because if someone is gonna claim a movie does something they have to actually point to where it's supposedly happens, especially they're gonna make a big claim that it retconned another movie.
You can't just say a movie does something and then not tell me where in the movie it happened that's just saying something and not backing it up.

[green_garnish]

if someone is gonna claim a movie does something they have to actually point to where it's supposedly happens, especially they're gonna make a big claim that it retconned another movie.

I trust it is no longer your position that this has not happened though.

[Vakanai]

There are also bunch of stories Spider-Man has a mentor and does get pep talk
This isn't new by any means, I swear people just like to revise history and pretend certain stories don't exist

Look, there's stories where literally any and every trope, plot, and characterization happens - doesn't mean they're all equally valid and feel right to do your movies on.

[Vakanai]

There's a difference between saying it's a version with characteristics that you don't personally enjoy and saying it's a character that doesn't feel like Spider-Man period. The first way of expressing yourself makes it clear it's your own subjective opinion while the latter makes it sound like it's an objective fact...and that second option is demonstrably false which is why several people countered your post.

I didn't say he didn't feel like Spider-Man - I said he didn't feel like Spider-Man to me. As always, opinions are allowed to vary.

[Metro]

I trust it is no longer your position that this has not happened though.

It didn't happen.
The idea that IW somehow retconned Peter lying about why he declined being Avenger because he reacted towards being called one is ridiculous.

Look, there's stories where literally any and every trope, plot, and characterization happens - doesn't mean they're all equally valid and feel right to do your movies on.

So basically elements from these stories are bad and should not adapted in other media because you say so.

[green_garnish]

It didn't happen.
The idea that IW somehow retconned Peter lying about why he declined being Avenger because he reacted towards being called one is ridiculous.

What? Peter lying? What? Where in the world are you going with this? The discussion is that the two movies are not consistent.

[Metro]

What? Peter lying? What? Where in the world are you going with this? The discussion is that the two movies are not consistent.

And they claimed the movies aren't consistent because IW supposedly retconned into lying about his reason for declining being an Avenger in Homecoming