Spider-Man 60

[Orbus]

I disagree 1000%. Slott and company did unbelievable damage to not only Peter but MJ and Felicia ( remember Queen Pin?) as well. Admitting the mistake and rectifying it are the only ways you can possibly make things better. I had a lot of issues with SlottÂ’s run, and I have been over them many times but the main thing is not only the lack of character growth in Peter, MJ and Felicia, but the regression of Peter into a man child. That lack of growth is exactly what Peter commented on in ASM 60. He is unaware but we know very well it goes right back to OMD. OMD needs to get the Chapter One /Abrams Spider-Man treatment and be erased from history and not brought back

What you describe was a thing way before Slott and well before OMD. Anytime there has been any major change in Spider-Man be it a costume, career, romance or membership of a superhero team it's never too long before the status quo is back. That's a bit of an issue I have with this book; while there some nice character work the book looks like it's trying to write a cheque that Spencer will never be able to cash. Peter going all meta and realising that no matter what major changes happen in his life he always ends up single, broke, loner superhero working at the Bugle. Even if Spencer does undo the Mephisto deal none of that is going to change. One More Day was a symptom of this problem not the cause.

I don't really see what erasing the OMD continuity will do. More people liked those runs than you think and once again it would be futzing with history. You can undo OMD without erasing what went before. I didn't read the Mary Jane series so I missed why she is working with Mysterio but it seems bad that she seems to know a lot about what is going on with the metaphysical forces manipulating Peter which seems at odds with her in being in love with him. I wonder if at the end of this the Mephisto is null and void only for Peter to reject MJ for not being honest with him.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You can undo OMD without erasing what went before.

I agree with this.

[Frontier]

I don't really see what erasing the OMD continuity will do. More people liked those runs than you think and once again it would be futzing with history. You can undo OMD without erasing what went before. I didn't read the Mary Jane series so I missed why she is working with Mysterio but it seems bad that she seems to know a lot about what is going on with the metaphysical forces manipulating Peter which seems at odds with her in being in love with him. I wonder if at the end of this the Mephisto is null and void only for Peter to reject MJ for not being honest with him.

Kindred had Mysterio hire Mary Jane for the biopic of himself that he's posing as the director for to get her away from Peter.

Mary Jane found out about it being Beck but agreed to go on with the movie because it was her potential big break, she saw potential in the film, and she seemed to believe Mysterio was willing to mend his ways through telling his story in the film.

[NC_Yankee]

What you describe was a thing way before Slott and well before OMD. Anytime there has been any major change in Spider-Man be it a costume, career, romance or membership of a superhero team it's never too long before the status quo is back. That's a bit of an issue I have with this book; while there some nice character work the book looks like it's trying to write a cheque that Spencer will never be able to cash. Peter going all meta and realising that no matter what major changes happen in his life he always ends up single, broke, loner superhero working at the Bugle. Even if Spencer does undo the Mephisto deal none of that is going to change. One More Day was a symptom of this problem not the cause.

I don't really see what erasing the OMD continuity will do. More people liked those runs than you think and once again it would be futzing with history. You can undo OMD without erasing what went before. I didn't read the Mary Jane series so I missed why she is working with Mysterio but it seems bad that she seems to know a lot about what is going on with the metaphysical forces manipulating Peter which seems at odds with her in being in love with him. I wonder if at the end of this the Mephisto is null and void only for Peter to reject MJ for not being honest with him.

There are many problems in what you say. Not the least of which there is no longer the need for a teenaged Spider-Man named Peter Parker, when you already have Miles. I would also say Peter has not been honest such as lying to Gwen, MJ and Aunt May down through the years, so it is not just MJ being dishonest. As far as MJ is concerned, people love to bring up Mysterio but let’s be honest, please tell me the perfect relationship in fiction? There are always going to be ups and downs ( especially in Spider-Man ( starting with Amazing Fantasy 15)). If someone wants Peter to be Spider-Man 24/7 and have no secret identity, and hang out in Avengers Mansion and shack up with Mockingbird in a “Friends With Benefits” relationship when not fighting crime, I can understand that perspective ( although I do not agree with it). I am a hard core MJ fan, and I do not hide my opinion which is to quote Jarvis from Spencer’s run “Irreplaceable” that is exactly what MJ is. What I do not like are those who do not like MJ and use Mysterio as a way to nit pick at her flaws. I have been against those who look for stupid stuff to bash Gwen and Felicia as well, so I am consistent in this belief.

[Vortex85]

Haven't gotten my copy yet but the spoiler is cool. Would be more excited if I didn't know that we were taking a tangent from the subject likely for the next Kingpin arc. However, maybe we will have more side plots in that as well that progress the OMD angle as well.

[Hulkout42]

Oh god don't do this to me Spencer, don't give me hopes and hype about what's maybe coming.

But still i felt this was a solid issue where we got to see some aftermath, Peter dealing with it and MJ's support.

Though i wonder what this partnership between Quentin and her will lead to and how it may affect Peter as well as how Beck is still afraid of Harry despite him being locked up. I mean does know something else they don't?

[Vordan]

Spencer really shines on the emotional character beats as this issue showed. It ends on another tease, but goddamn is it a big one. I can’t see them doing a fakeout now, unless Marvel is prepared for another big backlash. It’s clear though that if Spencer does undo/address OMD, it’s going to literally be the last thing he does lol.

[Somecrazyaussie]

OMD is too much a sacred cow at Marvel. Spencer couldn't retcon/undo it even if he wanted to.

The regime that championed it are no longer in a position to do anything about it.

In saying that, do i think this is leading somewhere? Yes. Will it outright undo OMD and restore what was lost? No.

The terms of OMD stipulated that Mephisto wanted their love/marriage. He got it. But there is nothing to stop MJ and Peter getting together again or remarrying down the line.

[PeterParked]

There are many problems in what you say. Not the least of which there is no longer the need for a teenaged Spider-Man named Peter Parker, when you already have Miles.

A lot of people say this, but it's not that true. First, Miles is a diverse version of Spider Man, not a teenager one, he will grow up too, what makes him different it's not his age. Second and perhaps more important, super hero comics are never ending soap operas, their audience needs to periodically changes otherwise they will die (in fact, is kinda what's happening right now, historical trends are consistently down, an A-list book of today is a B-list of 10-15 years ago, a C-list of 20-30 years ago and so on, and this obviously can't be go on forever);in this genre characters don't evolve too much, they are updated for the time and that's all. Now there is a contingent of readers that's getting old and want his hero to get old with them, eh, it's not the first time a generation of readers get to 40 and want their favorite character to get old with them, but it won't happen; also, let's uncover the hypocrisy and selfishness about the "spider man never change" whining, everyone that says that don't want him to evolve, they just want him to be back to how it was when they started reading it (married with MJ). Going back it's not growing up or evolving.

I would also say Peter has not been honest such as lying to Gwen, MJ and Aunt May down through the years, so it is not just MJ being dishonest.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Thundershot]

I hope there’s SOME kind of payoff regarding the ending. Maybe let Peter and MJ remember but most of the rest of the world still doesn’t know they’re married.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

First, Miles is a diverse version of Spider Man, not a teenager one,

Because you see it's only white teenagers who count as "teenagers". Diverse teenagers are diverse first and teenagers second.

Second and perhaps more important, super hero comics are never ending soap operas, their audience needs to periodically changes otherwise they will die (in fact, is kinda what's happening right now, historical trends are consistently down, an A-list book of today is a B-list of 10-15 years ago, a C-list of 20-30 years ago and so on, and this obviously can't be go on forever)

If as you say historical trends are down now, and in the past 10 years or so, you have OMD and so on, doesn't that mean in fact that the lack of change or ensuring the status-quo in fact doesn't work, doesn't produce appreciable observable results, and as such your entire argument is insupportable, illogical, and shoddy.

The sales of Spider-Man and Marvel Comics were always at its highest when it embraced change and not when it stuck in a wheel. If Marvel did not change or allow its characters to grow, it would never have been successful or lasted so long.

[Celgress]

Well, I'm surprised. I never thought Editorial would let Spencer actually go there beyond a few tantalizing teases. I'm intrigued by what may come next.

[NC_Yankee]

Because you see it's only white teenagers who count as "teenagers". Diverse teenagers are diverse first and teenagers second.



If as you say historical trends are down now, and in the past 10 years or so, you have OMD and so on, doesn't that mean in fact that the lack of change or ensuring the status-quo in fact doesn't work, doesn't produce appreciable observable results, and as such your entire argument is insupportable, illogical, and shoddy.

The sales of Spider-Man and Marvel Comics were always at its highest when it embraced change and not when it stuck in a wheel. If Marvel did not change or allow its characters to grow, it would never have been successful or lasted so long.

Revolutionary Jack you are 100% spot on about Miles. I would add that Miles works well as a character regardless of skin pigmentation and is not a copy of Peter ( unlike Ghost Spider being a copy of Original Gwen. It is also true that the people who do not want Peter to grow as a character are not the fans but Marvel who worries they will lose their “Cash Cow.” This fear is why OMD and the earlier Clone Saga were created. It was proven with RYV that guess what? When well written, people will buy an adult Peter. I was happy to see Marvel let Peter finally asking questions about why he is in this never ending rut? I just hope and pray OMD is erased and he can start to grow as a character. Maybe just maybe Amazing can be well Amazing again?

[PCN24454]

There are many problems in what you say. Not the least of which there is no longer the need for a teenaged Spider-Man named Peter Parker, when you already have Miles. I would also say Peter has not been honest such as lying to Gwen, MJ and Aunt May down through the years, so it is not just MJ being dishonest. As far as MJ is concerned, people love to bring up Mysterio but let’s be honest, please tell me the perfect relationship in fiction? There are always going to be ups and downs ( especially in Spider-Man ( starting with Amazing Fantasy 15)). If someone wants Peter to be Spider-Man 24/7 and have no secret identity, and hang out in Avengers Mansion and shack up with Mockingbird in a “Friends With Benefits” relationship when not fighting crime, I can understand that perspective ( although I do not agree with it). I am a hard core MJ fan, and I do not hide my opinion which is to quote Jarvis from Spencer’s run “Irreplaceable” that is exactly what MJ is. What I do not like are those who do not like MJ and use Mysterio as a way to nit pick at her flaws. I have been against those who look for stupid stuff to bash Gwen and Felicia as well, so I am consistent in this belief.

It makes sense. The reason why Peter never grows up is because Marvel wants to keep Peter's setting as static as possible. That's why Peter went back to the High School in JMS' run and why Flash ended working there as well. Growing up would mean getting rid of all those characters.

[Celgress]

It makes sense. The reason why Peter never grows up is because Marvel wants to keep Peter's setting as static as possible. That's why Peter went back to the High School in JMS' run and why Flash ended working there as well. Growing up would mean getting rid of all those characters.

Yes, but Marvel has already effectively "gotten rid of" many of Spidey's historic supporting cast members from the High School Gang to the Bugle Staff. We often go many years or even a decade (or more) without seeing them take poor Betty Brant for example.