All About Vaccines

[JB]

Yeah, faith in people is cute and all, but I lost it. Just look at this story:

Supreme Court: Gorsuch Refuses To Mask Up For Diabetic Sotomayor

Apparently the Justices issued a joint statement saying this is false. I've heard that despite their political differences, the Supreme Court gets along very well.

Sotomayor says she did not ask Gorsuch to mask up for Supreme Court bench
https://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court...174951065.html

Supreme Court Justices Neil Gorsuch and Sonia Sotomayor issued a rare joint statement Wednesday after NPR reported that Gorsuch refused a request by Chief Justice John Roberts to wear a mask during the current Omicron surge, forcing Sotomayor — who has diabetes and is at high risk for COVID-19 — to work remotely.

"Reporting that Justice Sotomayor asked Justice Gorsuch to wear a mask surprised us,” their statement read. “It is false. While we may sometimes disagree about the law, we are warm colleagues and friends."

[Catlady in training]

Czechs scrap mandatory COVID-19 jabs, daily cases hit record
https://www.metro.us/czechs-scrap-mandatory-covid-19/

If someone had told me a month ago that I would be disappointed by their new government reversing some ruling made by the previous government, I would have laughed. This truly baffles me. Even from an alibistic perspective, they had a great opportunity to keep an unpopular decision with an excuse of "This was not decided by us."

[Jim Kelly]

Lately, I've been hearing medical officers and political figures from different locations all saying that, well, we're all going to get COVID-19. This from the same people who previously said that if we all do the right thing we can protect ourselves from getting the virus. Frankly, this depresses me. It's like they've thrown in the towel. I can see that where they are--having to be around crowds of people all the time--they might get it (and may have already) but that shouldn't mean I'm going to get it. I'm so attentive to doing all the things--I think I have a good chance of not getting it this year. Maybe down the road when the virus has become endemic and has mutated into a less threatening variant, then I might let down my guard and end up with it.

Saying that we're all going to get it is a very dangerous message for these influential people to send out. There might be all kinds of caveats to what they're saying, but what the public hears is there's no point in trying to stop yourself from getting the virus, so you might as well not bother with those measures and just roll the dice that you're not going to have a bad outcome when you get it, as you surely will get it. We've put our trust in these people for their guidance--and before they were saying one thing and now they're saying a completely different thing.

I even had a dream last night about this, where I wanted to go travelling out of the country, but I was hearing if I travelled then I was likely to get COVID-19. In the dream, I was thinking I better get it now at home, rather than travel to a foreign country and get it and end up in a precarious health care situation.

[JackDaw]

Bizarre case in Czechoslovakia, where a woman folk singer more or less deliberately exposed herself to virus so she could get clearance to perform at concerts (regs there require either vaccination or recent recovery from infection to attend certain events).

She died. It would have been so different if she’d got vaccinated.

He son said she wasn’t against vaccination, just thought it would be easier to get infected. (Incidentally seeing this claim…”I’m not really against vaccination but won’t do it”… quite often now. It just baffles me…if you’re not against vaccination, then get it done!)

[JB]

Lately, I've been hearing medical officers and political figures from different locations all saying that, well, we're all going to get COVID-19. This from the same people who previously said that if we all do the right thing we can protect ourselves from getting the virus. Frankly, this depresses me. It's like they've thrown in the towel. I can see that where they are--having to be around crowds of people all the time--they might get it (and may have already) but that shouldn't mean I'm going to get it. I'm so attentive to doing all the things--I think I have a good chance of not getting it this year. Maybe down the road when the virus has become endemic and has mutated into a less threatening variant, then I might let down my guard and end up with it.

Saying that we're all going to get it is a very dangerous message for these influential people to send out. There might be all kinds of caveats to what they're saying, but what the public hears is there's no point in trying to stop yourself from getting the virus, so you might as well not bother with those measures and just roll the dice that you're not going to have a bad outcome when you get it, as you surely will get it. We've put our trust in these people for their guidance--and before they were saying one thing and now they're saying a completely different thing.

I even had a dream last night about this, where I wanted to go travelling out of the country, but I was hearing if I travelled then I was likely to get COVID-19. In the dream, I was thinking I better get it now at home, rather than travel to a foreign country and get it and end up in a precarious health care situation.

Omicron seems to have thrown everyone for a loop. It's so contagious that there seems to be no stopping it. I agree, it's very sobering to hear health officials speaking these days.

[JB]

This is the kind of important granular data we need.

Up to 60 PERCENT of all Covid 'patients' in London's hospitals are not primarily being treated for the virus - as data shows NHS staffing absences have plunged 40% since Omicron wave began receding
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ted-virus.html

Six in 10 hospitalized Covid 'patients' in London are now primarily being treated for other ailments, according to official statistics.

NHS England's most up-to-date figures, released today, show almost 3,000 beds were occupied by patients who were infected with the virus on January 18. But just 1,200 were mainly unwell with the coronavirus, with the others treated for separate conditions.

The proportion of patients who are incidentally infected has fallen in line with explosion of Omicron, illustrating how the current wave is milder than previous surges.

This distinction is critical.

[JB]

Austria parliament approves mandatory Covid vaccination
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/...a-coronavirus/

Austria's parliament has approved the introduction of mandatory Covid-19 vaccination for adults from next month, becoming the first European country to do so.

Tens of thousands have demonstrated against mandatory vaccination in regular weekend rallies since the measure was announced in November in a bid to drive up the country's vaccination rate.

But all parties, except the far-right, supported the measure, with the new legislation passing with 137 votes in favour and 33 votes against it.

To date 72% of Austrian residents are fully vaccinated - in line with the European Union-wide average of just more than 70% but several percentage points below regional neighbours such as Italy and France.

[Kieran_Frost]

Here is the obvious issue with folks trying to frame that as "Apples..."/"Apples..." with Covid -
Unless folks know something that everyone else does not?
There currently is not a shot that will keep nine out of ten smokers from ever having to be hospitalized for smoking related illness.
So, it is really nothing like that.

Errrrr... there is a way to be 100% protected against smoking... don't smoke.

As for it being "Misfortune..."?
That is just nonsense.
It is like saying that someone who refused to get a kid vaccinated for measles is a victim of "Misfortune..." when the kid eventually gets measles.
No, they are not.
We had a perfectly solid mechanism to keep them safe, and they are dealing with it because of their own foolishness.

So we shouldn't help the person who fell off the building, climbing up to put up a silly sign about their mate getting engaged. It was foolish. And unnecessary. Should we also not help the person who crashed their car because they were texting AND eating a sandwich while driving. VERY foolish. I'm willing to bet a good 1/4 of all hospital injuries are in there, in some part, to foolishness. Do we not help them? Or do we help them, but charge them more than the others, because they were foolish?

Come on... where's your heart, man? Some are born less smart than others, so let's punish them for it, because it makes us feel superior and powerful. And yet we still want to consider ourselves the 'good guys'?

I have to agree with you about these people refusing to get vaccinated.
Also may I add , that these people are most likely the same kind of people who opposed Obama when he signed the ACA in 2009/2010.
They were the ones talking about " personal responsibility " and all that.
Now we have vaccines that help minimize complications due to Covid , they don't want it.
They rather flood the Hospitals and expect FREE treatment paid by the government.
They also claim that the vaccines don't work. Well none of the Pharma Companies ever said that the vaccines were 100% effective at preventing Covid .
Then there are those that only want natural treatments, but then have no problem getting Monoclonal Antibody Treatment. Go figure the Hypocrisy !

I do love the irony of those who are so anti-mask being of the same ilk that back during the Aids pandemic...

If you don't like the idea of footing them with some of the bill, than tax the unvaccinated like they are doing in Quebec to re-coup the financial cost.

That's... basically the same thing. So shocker, I'm not in favour of that either.

Australia does a good job of providing more focused data of what's happening in hospitals. This is a recent report out of New South Wales:
https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data...19-Monitor.pdf

COVID-19 patients in hospital, as at 9 Jan - 2,030 (+826)
Percentage who were unvaccinated - 28.8%
Percentage who were double vaccinated - 68.9%

COVID-19 patients in intensive care units (ICUs), as at 9 Jan - 159 (+64)
Percentage who were unvaccinated - 49.1%
Percentage who were double vaccinated - 50.3%

Australia has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, around 80%, but their booster rate is only around 20%. Waning effectiveness of vaccines is clear here, as the country is having a really hard time again.

Australia has record COVID-19 deaths, hospitals under stress
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...tress-82319232

Austria parliament approves mandatory Covid vaccination
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/...a-coronavirus/

Thankyou for all these stats, very, very informative. I must confess, I didn't realise the EU had an average of only 70%??? That's shocking; I know anti-vaxxers are a big thing in Germany and France but still, very surprised.

The UK is currently at 91% having had their first dose, 84% their second, and 64% having had both doses AND the booster. I will say these numbers (annoyingly) don't say if it is of the entire population, or the entire population eligible to have an injection (as we don't inject under 12s)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga...892.1614662490

[JB]

Errrrr... there is a way to be 100% protected against smoking... don't smoke.


So we shouldn't help the person who fell off the building, climbing up to put up a silly sign about their mate getting engaged. It was foolish. And unnecessary. Should we also not help the person who crashed their car because they were texting AND eating a sandwich while driving. VERY foolish. I'm willing to bet a good 1/4 of all hospital injuries are in there, in some part, to foolishness. Do we not help them? Or do we help them, but charge them more than the others, because they were foolish?

Come on... where's your heart, man? Some are born less smart than others, so let's punish them for it, because it makes us feel superior and powerful. And yet we still want to consider ourselves the 'good guys'?


I do love the irony of those who are so anti-mask being of the same ilk that back during the Aids pandemic...




That's... basically the same thing. So shocker, I'm not in favour of that either.



Thankyou for all these stats, very, very informative. I must confess, I didn't realise the EU had an average of only 70%??? That's shocking; I know anti-vaxxers are a big thing in Germany and France but still, very surprised.

The UK is currently at 91% having had their first dose, 84% their second, and 64% having had both doses AND the booster. I will say these numbers (annoyingly) don't say if it is of the entire population, or the entire population eligible to have an injection (as we don't inject under 12s)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga...892.1614662490

My pleasure, and thank you for that link as well. I think it's important to stay informed considering things are in constant flux with this virus and variants. And I agree, I wish there were more data making the distinction between the general population and eligible population. The more we can drill down on information the better.

That ad makes me so sad. That was a heartbreaking time.

[Captain Nostalgia]

That's... basically the same thing. So shocker, I'm not in favour of that either.

I'm aware of that. You take the same position as the anti vaccers, well done.

[numberthirty]

...

So we shouldn't help the person who fell off the building, climbing up to put up a silly sign about their mate getting engaged. It was foolish. And unnecessary. Should we also not help the person who crashed their car because they were texting AND eating a sandwich while driving. VERY foolish. I'm willing to bet a good 1/4 of all hospital injuries are in there, in some part, to foolishness. Do we not help them? Or do we help them, but charge them more than the others, because they were foolish?

Come on... where's your heart, man? Some are born less smart than others, so let's punish them for it, because it makes us feel superior and powerful. And yet we still want to consider ourselves the 'good guys'?

...

In Illinois?

Texting while driving is no longer a simple "Ticket..." offense.

It is a moving violation. First offense is a grand total of around $210.00 after traffic school and paying for the state's court costs. Never mind that three moving violations in a given year will get your license suspended.

All of that happens because texting while driving creates a clear and present danger to everyone around you.

Just like not being vaccinated, and going to a hospital.

No one is saying that we stop treating those folks.

Just that they start dealing with the fact that they are putting others in danger the same way that folks who put others in danger have had to the entire time.

[JB]

A new CDC study is showing that with Delta, people who had already been infected had better protection than people vaccinated with no prior infection. The best protection was found in people who both had been infected and vaccinated.

Prior COVID infection more protective than vaccination during Delta surge -U.S. study
https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...us-2022-01-19/

People who had previously been infected with COVID-19 were better protected against the Delta variant than those who were vaccinated alone, suggesting that natural immunity was a more potent shield than vaccines against that variant, California and New York health officials reported on Wednesday.

Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found.

But again this was with Delta. Omicron has flipped everything upside down.

[Catlady in training]

Bizarre case in Czechoslovakia, where a woman folk singer more or less deliberately exposed herself to virus so she could get clearance to perform at concerts (regs there require either vaccination or recent recovery from infection to attend certain events).

She died. It would have been so different if she’d got vaccinated.

He son said she wasn’t against vaccination, just thought it would be easier to get infected. (Incidentally seeing this claim…”I’m not really against vaccination but won’t do it”… quite often now. It just baffles me…if you’re not against vaccination, then get it done!)

Yeah, I hope this might be a wake-up call to some people. Her son and husband had covid (both vaccinated) and survived. She refused to get vaccinated and from her posts was happy that she caught it from them and later assumed that she recovered, so that she would now be considered immunized in same way as if she were vaccinated. Except she suddenly died soon after and all seems to point to it being from covid. It's no joke but it looks like a textbook example of human stupidity.

Her son claims she was not an anti-vaxxer, but I guess he means that she didn't try to convince other people about it, because her stance regarding getting vaccinated herself was clearly anti-vax. And he is now publicly blaming some anti-vaxxers for killing her with their rhetoric. I don't know, I get that he is sad and heart-broken, but she was an adult responsible for her own decisions.

(BTW, Czechoslovakia has not existed for 29 years .)

[Catlady in training]

Omicron has flipped everything upside down.

I am starting to be afraid that people have gotten a false sense of security from the reports that symptoms are less severe with Omicron than previous variants and that it is getting dominant. The theory that this would mean that it might one day be like a flu seems to be so widespread despite being a theory that a lot of people are now treating it as fact and getting less cautious. It's too soon to celebrate, we don't know what it might mutate to next, why are even reasonable people once again acting like pandemic is soon to be over? We don't know that.

[JB]

I am starting to be afraid that people have gotten a false sense of security from the reports that symptoms are less severe with Omicron than previous variants and that it is getting dominant. The theory that this would mean that it might one day be like a flu seems to be so widespread despite being a theory that a lot of people are now treating it as fact and getting less cautious. It's too soon to celebrate, we don't know what it might mutate to next, why are even reasonable people once again acting like pandemic is soon to be over? We don't know that.

I agree, omicron is still very new. We see various heads of states making decisions to pull back on restrictions and I hope it's not premature. But they claim to be doing so at the advice of their health experts so we can only hope they are right.