All About Vaccines

[CaptainEurope]

Yeah, faith in people is cute and all, but I lost it. Just look at this story:

Supreme Court: Gorsuch Refuses To Mask Up For Diabetic Sotomayor

[JB]

As Omicron sweeps the country, New York state offers a glimmer of hope
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/15/us/us...day/index.html

The state is "turning the corner on the winter surge," Gov. Kathy Hochul said Friday.
After a peak positivity rate of 23% on January 3, it's now 16.3% and Covid-19 hospitalizations have also started to decline, she said at a news conference.
"It is still very high, but this will eventually catch up with the trend that is just beginning," Hochul said.

Speaking of New York, the state recently announced a change in their reporting of hospitalizations which I think is excellent.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/ce...e-in-new-york-

Hospitals for the first time in New York state will be required to provide more granular detail on COVID-19 patients, a move that could provide better insight in how virulent the omicron variant has been over the last several weeks.

Gov. Kathy Hochul on Monday announced hospitals, beginning Tuesday, will provide separate numbers on how many people are hospitalized because of COVID-19 and those who were admitted for other reasons, but subsequently tested positive for the virus and may have a mild or asymptomatic case.

It's very likely that this is related to what Fauci said on MSNBC recently about children hospitalizations being over-counted.

https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-child...micron-1664676

Fauci suggested that some of the children currently being treated at medical facilities were hospitalized with COVID as opposed to "because of COVID."

He added that some children who are currently listed as being in hospital with COVID may actually be receiving treatment for "a broken leg or appendicitis," rather than for a severe reactions to the virus.

Currently if someone is admitted to the hospital for any reason, they are required to be tested and if they come back positive, they are listed as a covid hospitalization, according to Fauci. So this new granular data will be very important.

[JB]

I'm still annoyed to learn that we're behind other countries with this knowledge by at least one year.

The C.D.C. concedes that cloth masks do not protect against the virus as effectively as other masks
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/14/h...covid-cdc.html

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday clarified its stance on various kinds of masks, acknowledging that the cloth masks frequently worn by Americans do not offer as much protection as surgical masks or respirators.

While this disparity is widely known to the general public, the update marks the first time the C.D.C. has explicitly addressed the differences. The agency’s website also no longer refers to a shortage of respirators.

It doesn't seem to be widely known to the general public because the majority of masks I see everyday are cloth masks. We can no longer simply talk about masking up, the conversation has to change to better quality masks.

[Captain Nostalgia]

The consequence is they will suffer and stand a very high chance of dying when they contract it. THAT is the consequence, but one very much of their making. Not one forced upon them as punishment by others. Big difference.

Your assuming that the majority that receive medical treatment die of suffer long term consequences, which is not the case. Those who leave without severe medical issues should be billed for their time at the hospital, either that or the unvaccinated should be taxed for over burdening the public health care system.

Make no mistake. We are in lockdown to protect the medical system from being over swamped. In my country cancer patients have been put on hold because of unvaccinated COVID patients in the ICU.

The unvaccinated are overburdening the medical system, and costing the economy billions. Tax them or make them pay a portion of the medical bill if they have no long term serious consequence.

[Kieran_Frost]

If society has to step in to save your bacon because you could not be bothered to throw a life jacket on because you jumped in a lake without knowing how to swim?
That is absolutely a benefit. That you will likely live when you would most likely not without treatment? That will further your life.
So, yes. It is absolutely an apt comparison. You have folks who are choosing to turn up at a hospital based on their own call not to get a shot.

It really isn't; in your current analogy going to university is more the equivalent of renting the boat that took you out on the lake; rather than jumping in without a life jacket. And many swim without life jackets, they just assume they don't need it. And then they find they DO. We don't stand by as they're drowing, wagging our finger, gloating "that'll teach you." We, as good people, help.

Not everything in life should be free, but education, medical assistance, police protection; these should all be freely given. It's the price you pay for being affluent in the Western world, even assh*les get help.

As for "Those Who Need It..."?
Probably more than seven times out of ten?
This "Need..." does not exist in reasonable adults who get a shot. Only in folks who are creating it with their own foolishness.

Yes. Medicine is there to helps those who need it, not those who don't. If you take care of your body, exercise, eat well, avoid dangerous activities, there is a good chance you don't need the medical assistance unlike those who eat like slobs, never exercise, smoke like a chimney and constantly go about doing foolish stunts. And? Do we start withholding medical assistance only for those who had misfortune but did everything else right. Do we only help those who's life styles we approve of???

Yeah, faith in people is cute and all, but I lost it.

Well I'm very sad you feel that way, luckily I still hold on hope.

I used to be optimistic like that, but the last few years, even before the pandemic, are making me more and more pessimistic. At this point I don't even know if it wouldn't be better if we all just died and left the planet for animals, before we destroy it completely.

Nah, we've still got a good run in us, for every terrible person there are twenty who are wonderful and doing their bit. I still have faith good will prevail.

Again, the problem is not antivaccers dying (at least I don't give a **** anymore), the problem is how many people they take with them. There are people who have medical reasons why they can't get vaccinated and those who have other conditions that make them more vulnerable even if they get vaccinated. Not to mention people with other conditions who might not get the healtcare they need because of those selfish people.
And it's not just vaccinations, the same people who refuse to get vaccinated usually refuse to follow other safety measures too, like wear masks, stay home, etc.

I agree, they are selfish and wrong and not pulling their weight. But... we can't start punishing people who think differently to us. It's just not a morally good thing to do. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that. We have to be better than them, and it's hard, god it's hard sometimes. But to fight selfishness with revenge leads to chaos. And no-one wins.

Your assuming that the majority that receive medical treatment die of suffer long term consequences, which is not the case. Those who leave without severe medical issues should be billed for their time at the hospital, either that or the unvaccinated should be taxed for over burdening the public health care system.

All this will do is encourage them to not seek medical assistance until it's absolutely necessary. Which is NOT a good idea. And again, many can't afford that kind of medical bill. So now they are unvaccinated and desperate; as we've bankrupt them out of spite.

[numberthirty]

...

Yes. Medicine is there to helps those who need it, not those who don't. If you take care of your body, exercise, eat well, avoid dangerous activities, there is a good chance you don't need the medical assistance unlike those who eat like slobs, never exercise, smoke like a chimney and constantly go about doing foolish stunts. And? Do we start withholding medical assistance only for those who had misfortune but did everything else right. Do we only help those who's life styles we approve of???

...

Here is the obvious issue with folks trying to frame that as "Apples..."/"Apples..." with Covid -

Unless folks know something that everyone else does not?

There currently is not a shot that will keep nine out of ten smokers from ever having to be hospitalized for smoking related illness.

So, it is really nothing like that.

Past that? Yes, smokers who refuse to take such a shot should it become available should be taxed/fined for care for smoking related illness.

[numberthirty]

As for it being "Misfortune..."?

That is just nonsense.

It is like saying that someone who refused to get a kid vaccinated for measles is a victim of "Misfortune..." when the kid eventually gets measles.

No, they are not.

We had a perfectly solid mechanism to keep them safe, and they are dealing with it because of their own foolishness.

[TheKryptonMan]

If society has to step in to save your bacon because you could not be bothered to throw a life jacket on because you jumped in a lake without knowing how to swim?

That is absolutely a benefit. That you will likely live when you would most likely not without treatment? That will further your life.

So, yes. It is absolutely an apt comparison. You have folks who are choosing to turn up at a hospital based on their own call not to get a shot.

As for "Those Who Need It..."?

Probably more than seven times out of ten?

This "Need..." does not exist in reasonable adults who get a shot. Only in folks who are creating it with their own foolishness.

I have to agree with you about these people refusing to get vaccinated.
Also may I add , that these people are most likely the same kind of people who opposed Obama when he signed the ACA in 2009/2010.
They were the ones talking about " personal responsibility " and all that.
Now we have vaccines that help minimize complications due to Covid , they don't want it.
They rather flood the Hospitals and expect FREE treatment paid by the government.
They also claim that the vaccines don't work. Well none of the Pharma Companies ever said that the vaccines were 100% effective at preventing Covid .
Then there are those that only want natural treatments, but then have no problem getting Monoclonal Antibody Treatment. Go figure the Hypocrisy !

[Captain Nostalgia]

All this will do is encourage them to not seek medical assistance until it's absolutely necessary. Which is NOT a good idea. And again, many can't afford that kind of medical bill. So now they are unvaccinated and desperate; as we've bankrupt them out of spite.

It's not out of spite, they are the group that are pushing public health care to the financial brink. (Not to mention people being put on hold for cancer treatment because the ICU is flooded with the unvaccinated) (And the burnt out medical staff)

If you don't like the idea of footing them with some of the bill, than tax the unvaccinated like they are doing in Quebec to re-coup the financial cost.

[JB]

Australia does a good job of providing more focused data of what's happening in hospitals. This is a recent report out of New South Wales:
https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data...19-Monitor.pdf

COVID-19 patients in hospital, as at 9 Jan - 2,030 (+826)
Percentage who were unvaccinated - 28.8%
Percentage who were double vaccinated - 68.9%

COVID-19 patients in intensive care units (ICUs), as at 9 Jan - 159 (+64)
Percentage who were unvaccinated - 49.1%
Percentage who were double vaccinated - 50.3%

Australia has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, around 80%, but their booster rate is only around 20%. Waning effectiveness of vaccines is clear here, as the country is having a really hard time again.

Australia has record COVID-19 deaths, hospitals under stress
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...tress-82319232

Everyone needs to continue to be careful, especially those with health conditions that make the virus worse.

[JB]

I appreciate Biden acting quickly on the recent CDC recommendations.

Biden plans mask giveaway as Omicron surges
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...n-surge-527335

The Biden administration will announce Wednesday a plan to distribute hundreds of millions of free, high-quality masks through pharmacies and community sites, three people with knowledge of the matter told POLITICO.

The masks will be N95s that are sourced from the government's Strategic National Stockpile, the people said, as part of an effort to ensure Americans can access the more-protective masks during a record surge of Covid-19 cases.

[skyvolt2000]

Again, the problem is not antivaccers dying (at least I don't give a **** anymore), the problem is how many people they take with them. There are people who have medical reasons why they can't get vaccinated and those who have other conditions that make them more vulnerable even if they get vaccinated. Not to mention people with other conditions who might not get the healtcare they need because of those selfish people.
And it's not just vaccinations, the same people who refuse to get vaccinated usually refuse to follow other safety measures too, like wear masks, stay home, etc.

And these are the folks that are getting missed because the antivaxx gang can't get somewhere and sit down.

The consequence is they will suffer and stand a very high chance of dying when they contract it. THAT is the consequence, but one very much of their making. Not one forced upon them as punishment by others. Big difference.

If they just said "I will not take the shot but will continue to mask up and all that other stuff and not try to attack or kill folks including doctors-who KNOW more than them. I would think everyone would be fine.

It's the toxic behavior that folks are fed up with and this poor excuse of logic some have. Folks are not going to put up with that and that is part of the reason folks are leaving jobs.

Folks want stuff open and school open (because they want babysitters).

My school district is so fed up that if you are unvaxxed and get Covid-you do NOT get paid any of the days that you are in quarantine.

[JB]

Holy crap.

Boris Johnson ditches mask mandate and work from home advice in covid update
https://www.joe.co.uk/news/boris-joh...-update-312307

The mandatory wearing of masks, working from home guidance and covid passports, will be ditched in England from next Thursday.

Boris Johnson announced that Plan B measures would be lifted in the Commons on Wednesday.

The PM said rules could now be eased because cases were falling and the Omicron variant had likely peaked nationally, having gone through the latest figures on Wednesday morning.

Johnson also revealed the self-isolation requirement for people who test positive could be scrapped on or before March 24 and he does not expect to renew them. He said he would seek a vote in the Commons to bring that date forward if the data allows.

I truly hope they are successful.

[JB]

Czechs scrap mandatory COVID-19 jabs, daily cases hit record
https://www.metro.us/czechs-scrap-mandatory-covid-19/

The Czech government scrapped a decree on Wednesday making COVID-19 vaccinations mandatory for key professionals and over 60s to avoid “deepening fissures” in society, while the daily tally of new cases hit a record high.

“This does not change our stance on vaccination. It is still undoubtedly the best way to fight COVID-19 … however, we do not want to deepen fissures in society,” Fiala told a news conference.

In December, the previous government ordered COVID-19 vaccinations from March 2022 for hospital and nursing home staff, police, soldiers and some other professions, as well as those aged over 60.

[JackDaw]

Back in the UK…

Boris Johnson has looked to be in increasing trouble in last few weeks. Largely…of course…because of his personal “leadership” style and an aversion to tell the truth, even stronger than most politicians.

But also because Keir Starmer has raised his game at the big “showdown” Parliamentary occasions such as Prime Ministers’s question time.

I suspect that might be partly down to Angela Rayner’s (Keir’s deputy leader) performance when she stood in for Keir a couple of weeks ago. She took a very different approach to Keirs usual careful forensic approach. She basically was more aggressive, and poked fun at Boris. Boris didn’t handle it very well. Think Keir noted that, and changed his own approach accordingly.

Deep down think that Rayner style (poking fun, attacking relentlessly) would be a good way for Democrat nominee to deal with the Donald, if the Donald stands for President again.