All About Vaccines

[Tami]

No offense, and maybe it's correct (I'd be lying if I said I was a medical expert), but that sounds like the kind of utter bulls##t that you'd hear coming from a Covid-19 conspiracy theorist about the vaccine. If 85% (or a fraction of that) of men were sterilized after taking it that would be the #1 thing talked about in relation to taking it, it would be the first thing that came up in any discussion of it, and I wouldn't be reading about a "study from Nigeria" as the prime source because the CDC and major pharmaceutical companies would be blasting "Don't take this if you want to have children!" messages everywhere we look.

I get it. I dislike the anti-vax movement as well, it's selfish and harmful (to the point of killing folks in many cases) and just plain f##king stupid. The answer isn't to fight stupid with stupid. If you see something like this, think about it for the 5 seconds it take for it to fall apart logically in your mind and don't post it. It undermines the pro-vaccine position as the logical, rational, and science-minded outlook. Not by much, but these folks will look for anything to hang their bulls##t conspiracy theories on and misinformation is a handy one.

I should have added a "If True" caveat to my post. So, let me see if it is true of false.

1. Effect of ivermectin on male fertility and its interaction with P-glycoprotein inhibitor (verapamil) in rats

We concluded that ivermectin has slight effects on male fertility, but when taken with verapamil induced adverse effects on meiosis and fertility.

2. An in vivo evaluation of induction of abnormal sperm morphology by ivermectin MSD (Mectizan).

The sperm of the mice from the cauda epididymes were examined 5 and 7 weeks after treatment. Ivermectin (Mectizan) induced sperm head abnormalities; however, the induction was not significantly elevated above the negative control value. Furthermore, the induction of the sperm head abnormalities was not strictly dose-dependent and there was also no correlation between dose level of administered drug and incidence of abnormal sperms. This indicates that the drug might not be mutagenic.

3. Effects of Ivermectin therapy on the sperm functions of Nigerian onchocerciasis patients

The effect of ivermectin, a broad spectrum antihelminthic on the sperm functions of animal models have been extensively studied, however data on humans are very scanty hence this present study. In this study we screened a total of 385 patients who were diagnosed of onchocerciasis. Out of which, 37 (9.6%) were eligible for further tests, as their sperm counts were normal while the remaining patients had very low sperm counts and were therefore not used for further tests or were too weak after the preliminary screening tests and were not considered eligible for further test/studies. We therefore investigated the effects of ivermectin therapy on the sperm functions of these eligible 37 diagnosed patients of
onchocerciasis who were of ages between 28 and 57 years. The sperm functions were assessed via seminal fluid analysis using standard procedure and the following parameters were measured: sperm counts, sperm motility, sperm morphology, sperm volume, sperm viscosity and sperm liquefaction time.
The above parameters were measured before and after the patients were treated with 150μ g/kg body wt of ivermectin for eleven months and the results were compared and also with normal control reference range. We observed significant reduction in the sperm counts and sperm motility of the patients tested.
On the morphology there was significant increase in the number of abnormal sperm cells. This took the forms of two heads, double tails, white (albino) sperms and extraordinarily large heads. It is suspected that the above alterations in the already determined parameters of the patients’ sperm cells could only have occurred as a result of their treatment with ivermectin. However, we could not record any significant change or alteration in the sperm viscosity, sperm volume, and sperm liquefaction time of the patients. We therefore suggest that caution be seriously exercised in the treatment of male onchocerciasis patients with ivermectin to avoid the adverse effects it has on the patients’ sperm functions.

There are more articles, basically there is not enough information yet to form a consensus.

My advice to men eventually planning on being fathers, don't take ivermectin unless prescribed by a doctor for the treatment of what it is approved to treat. Why take the chance?

[CSTowle]

While I'd echo the "don't take unless prescribed" sentiment, the logic behind "there is not enough information to form a consensus" is the same used by everyone from anti-vaccine advocates to the tobacco industry to climate change deniers. "Why ruin the economy on the chance it will help fight climate change?" Again, the pro-vaccination crowd has logic and necessity on its side. It doesn't need bad faith arguments that can then be repurposed by the anti-vax crowd or legitimize their use of the same.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The notion of injecting something into their bodies meant for horses, let me say that again....MEANT FOR GODDAMN HORSES is insane on steroids. But then, anti-vaxxers, desperate to avoid being proven wrong have long since boarded the crazy train and are riding it right off the cliff. But hey, if it thins the right wing herd, so be it.

[numberthirty]

While I'd echo the "don't take unless prescribed" sentiment, the logic behind "there is not enough information to form a consensus" is the same used by everyone from anti-vaccine advocates to the tobacco industry to climate change deniers. "Why ruin the economy on the chance it will help fight climate change?" Again, the pro-vaccination crowd has logic and necessity on its side. It doesn't need bad faith arguments that can then be repurposed by the anti-vax crowd or legitimize their use of the same.

Even there, it gets complicated.

If we are going to try to put doses into folks that have already contracted/recovered while there are other parts of the world where vaccination percentages are low because they don't have access?

"Logic..." might be just a bit of a stretch.

Seems like you could wind up giving the thing a running start at mutating.

[JackDaw]

On BBC website today got some student arguing that she’s more determined than ever not to get vaccinated because of plan to use “vaccine passports” to allow entry to night clubs.

Apparently it’s an outrageous assault on liberty….I guess it’s every Brits right to infect other people with a dangerous infection?

Bizarrely she says she really, really wants to go to nightclubs, and is happy to be tested every time she goes to a club…which to me would seem to be a bigger faff and restriction on liberty.

It all baffles me. No need to over think these things…in UK 80 or 90 percent of medical professionals got vaccinated. It’s beyond obvious that it’s in any adults interest to get the jab.

[Tami]

Denmark lifts all coronavirus restrictions and celebrates ‘a whole new era’

After nearly 550 days, the Scandinavian country has lifted the last of its domestic pandemic-era restrictions, declaring that the coronavirus is no longer a “critical threat to society.” Denmark appears to be the first European Union member to issue such a declaration, potentially providing a glimpse into the future of the bloc’s recovery — or serving as a cautionary tale of a nation that moved too quickly.

The country’s leaders have pointed to its high vaccination rates — among the best in the world, with nearly 75 percent of residents fully immunized — as evidence that the step is justified, though they have not claimed herd immunity has been reached. Denmark also has one of Europe’s lowest levels of newly reported infections.

Even in Denmark, health officials have stressed that the restrictions could return if cases and hospitalizations once again rise to dangerous levels.

“Although we are in a good place now, we have not reached the end of the epidemic,” Heunicke, the health minister, said last month.

[Tami]

Today, we shared positive pre-clinical data demonstrating our ability to combine 6 mRNAs against 3 different respiratory viruses in 1 vaccine: COVID-19 booster + Flu booster + RSV booster.

This might be the last year we need to get separate vaccine shots for different viruses.

[numberthirty]

On BBC website today got some student arguing that she’s more determined than ever not to get vaccinated because of plan to use “vaccine passports” to allow entry to night clubs.

Apparently it’s an outrageous assault on liberty….I guess it’s every Brits right to infect other people with a dangerous infection?

Bizarrely she says she really, really wants to go to nightclubs, and is happy to be tested every time she goes to a club…which to me would seem to be a bigger faff and restriction on liberty.

It all baffles me. No need to over think these things…in UK 80 or 90 percent of medical professionals got vaccinated. It’s beyond obvious that it’s in any adults interest to get the jab.

Again...

That a lot of politicians just said "Get vaccinated, and you can get right back to 'Normal...' life..." was one of the stupidest plays in recent memory.

There was already going to be enough of this without the rosy sales pitch.

[TheKryptonMan]

As a fellow Jerseyian I understand the opinion about Florida. I hope your family will be okay, and when they do they should still get vacated as soon as they are allowed to. I'm still surprised that the rate of vaccination in New Jersey isn't higher, all things considered.

Thank you for your kind words. My nephew has recovered from Covid but his father so far has not. He's received monoclonal antibody treatment, But unfortunately he is still against vaccination. He's not very rational and believes all the conspiracies out there.

[Tami]

Thank you for your kind words. My nephew has recovered from Covid but his father so far has not. He's received monoclonal antibody treatment, But unfortunately he is still against vaccination. He's not very rational and believes all the conspiracies out there.

I bet he has been vaccinated as a child, like most of us have. Does he understand what monoclonal antibodies are?

What Is Monoclonal Antibody Therapy & Who Is Eligible to Receive It?

How does monoclonal antibody therapy work?

Dr. Huang: Monoclonal antibody (mAb) therapy, also called monoclonal antibody infusion treatment, is a way of treating COVID-19. The goal of this therapy is to help prevent hospitalizations, reduce viral loads and lessen symptom severity.

This type of therapy relies on monoclonal antibodies. These are antibodies that are similar to the ones your body would naturally make in response to infection. However, monoclonal antibodies are mass-produced in a laboratory and are designed to recognize a specific component of this virus — the spike protein on its outer shell.

By targeting the spike protein, these specific antibodies interfere with the virus' ability to attach and gain entry into human cells. They give the immune system a leg up until it can mount its own response.

This therapy can be extremely effective, but it's not a replacement for vaccination. The community still needs to step up and get vaccinated to break the virus' chain of transmission.

It's basically a vaccine, only it only lasts a short time. Long enough to get people over the worst, but not long enough to keep them from getting reinfected.

[Tami]

Sorry for being abrupt, but I don't want NJ to end up like some of the Republican controlled states. We already went through that last year.

He has 90 days after he recovers to think about it. I hope he changes his mind and gets vaccinated.

Sometimes I wonder why there are no conspiracy theories about monoclonal antibodies? Why the hate for vaccines?

edit: I Miswrote part of this. It's not just NJ, is everywhere. All states are in trouble if we can't get more people vaccinated.

[numberthirty]

Sorry for being abrupt, but I don't want NJ to end up like some of the Republican controlled states. We already went through that last year.

He has 90 days after he recovers to think about it. I hope he changes his mind and gets vaccinated.

Sometimes I wonder why there are no conspiracy theories about monoclonal antibodies? Why the hate for vaccines?

First off, I'd say that there could be just that they are not really a part of what's on the "Mainstream..." radar.

Past that...

Conspiracy theory seemingly only works when you are the folks who actually know...

Let's even take another aspect of this that came up in the "News..."/"Politics..." thread.

DeSantis promoting monoclonal antibodies solely because his donors made a buck off of it. Well now, Biden is singing the exact same tune.

Was it simply a long con that Biden was in on the since the beginning, or was it probably not exactly what folks who saw a conspiracy thought?

As for the "Anti-Vax..." crowd, there are pretty obvious instances there too.

If you have "Secret Villain X..." who is you know is using the vaccine to a nefarious end, why stop there?

What is the bulletproof version of this that rules out that "Secret Villain X..." is behind getting the version of Ivermectin that is potentially dangerous was not the next step in the plans of "Secret Villain X..." right from the start?

That the plan was always to get to as many people as you could that way?

[Tami]

I don't want any od this to be politicized. I don't want any of this to be demonized by conspiracy theorists, I don't want anyone to cast aspersions juts to make a few extra bucks.

Of course things aren't the way I want, they are the ways things are.

It would be nice if these medical decisions were made the 'old fashioned' way, through rational consideration, research, and talking to your Doctor.

[numberthirty]

At this point, I'm just for whatever will actually keep folks alive.

While I am personally an "Ounce Of Prevention..." guy when it comes to this?

I will take a pound of cure if it means folks being able to survive this thing/minimize complications.

[CaptainEurope]

Again...

That a lot of politicians just said "Get vaccinated, and you can get right back to 'Normal...' life..." was one of the stupidest plays in recent memory.

There was already going to be enough of this without the rosy sales pitch.

But... that is exactly what is happening in Denmark. Enough people listened, and it seems to have worked.