Page 68 of 76 FirstFirst ... 1858646566676869707172 ... LastLast
Results 1,006 to 1,020 of 1126
  1. #1006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    Well....My preference would be that the unvaccinated are charged for their time in the hospital as opposed to being taxed.

    Again put your money where your mouth is. Let's see how many anti vaccer rallies there are, after they know they could face a $25,000 dollar bill for choosing to remain unvaccinated.

    I bet you some of them drop their kooky political beliefs real fast.
    Depending on one's insurance here in the States they'll have to pay for their hospital stay indeed, but I'm not sure how the medical system in Canada works. Is it all taxpayer funded? Because that of course makes a big difference in the debate and I agree people should pay for their hospital stays based on their personal choices.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  2. #1007

    Default

    With at-home tests going out by the millions, it's difficult to get an accurate number at this point so I agree with this.

    A shift away from daily COVID case counts has begun
    https://ctmirror.org/2022/01/15/a-sh...nts-has-begun/

    The most familiar indicator of COVID-19’s inexorable nationwide spread —daily state and local case counts— may be on the way out.

    Instead, public health officials are considering a shift from increasingly inaccurate case data to numbers they say better represent the effect of the disease on the community and the health care system: COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths.

    Omicron case counts are shattering all previous COVID-19 records. But the numbers don’t carry the same weight they used to. State and local health departments are preparing to explain that to the public and start reporting more meaningful data on the virus.

    “The goal of public health data is to provide information to people so they can take actions to keep themselves safer and healthier,” said Meredith Allen, vice president for health security at the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials. “We’re getting to a point where a daily case count isn’t giving people that information.”
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  3. #1008
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    Well....My preference would be that the unvaccinated are charged for their time in the hospital as opposed to being taxed.
    Again put your money where your mouth is. Let's see how many anti vaccer rallies there are, after they know they could face a $25,000 dollar bill for choosing to remain unvaccinated.
    I bet you some of them drop their kooky political beliefs real fast.
    It's just... not a nice way of doing things. We're supposed to be the good guys, and... having free health care but charging those we don't agree with is... no. It's not, not, not good. A dangerous slope to go down.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    When we have a shot that will save nine out of ten folks from the most lethal outcomes of smoking or obesity and folks refuse to take that shot?
    This will be something like "Apples..."/"Apples..."
    Until then?
    "Apples..."/"Orange..."
    Never mind that it is actually medically impossible for me to catch a smoking habit or obesity from folk who have them. Or for either of them to mutate into potentially more dangerous versions when I catch them.
    I'm purely comparing it as a situation where it's self-inflicted. Not the diseases/viruses themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Never mind that we already do tax smokers pretty heavily in the US.
    I wouldn't know, I'm from the UK. I thought the US got free health-care now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Depending on one's insurance here in the States they'll have to pay for their hospital stay indeed, but I'm not sure how the medical system in Canada works. Is it all taxpayer funded? Because that of course makes a big difference in the debate and I agree people should pay for their hospital stays based on their personal choices.
    If you went down that root, most things people are in a hospital for can be leveled at 'personal choice' to some degree. As ridiculous as that is; which is why we cannot go down that root.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 01-16-2022 at 02:46 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  4. #1009
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    ...


    I'm purely comparing it as a situation where it's self-inflicted.
    Not the diseases/viruses themselves.

    ...
    Folks are being taxed/fined for a choice not to take a shot that would largely eliminate serious hospital stays. Not that they are locking themselves in a closet with two Covid positive people.

    Again, it's essentially an "Apple..."/"Orange..." situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    ...

    I wouldn't know, I'm from the UK. I thought the US got free health-care now?


    ...
    That we still do not(and that folks knew that we would not...) is the entire reason that folks backed Sanders to a degree that he could have won the nomination.

  5. #1010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    It's just... not a nice way of doing things. We're supposed to be the good guys, and... having free health care but charging those we don't agree with is... no. It's not, not, not good. A dangerous slope to go down.


    I'm purely comparing it as a situation where it's self-inflicted. Not the diseases/viruses themselves.


    I wouldn't know, I'm from the UK. I thought the US got free health-care now?
    Unfortunately not in the way other countries do. I have insurance through Obamacare but it's really through a private company and I pay every month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    If you went down that root, most things people are in a hospital for can be leveled at 'personal choice' to some degree. As ridiculous as that is; which is why we cannot go down that root.
    Ultimately I agree with you.
    I'm sure it's different with each country but the director of our CDC last week said that over 75% of the people we lost had at least 4 co-morbidities. In her own words, they "were already unwell." One could argue that people who didn't take care of themselves were why the hospitals were stretched beyond control in 2020 when there were no vaccines. I don't feel that way but perhaps a lot of the deaths could have been avoided if we weren't such an already unhealthy country. Unfortunately that's a taboo topic to discuss.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  6. #1011
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,691

    Default

    Politely...

    Folks are making this more complicated than it actually is.

    - You drink and drive? Fined.

    - You don't wear a helmet on a motorcycle? Fined.

    - You don't wear a seat belt? Fined.

    This already happens all of the time.

    In an instance where folks who are not vaccinated are absolutely creating a situation where everyone else has to put off regular doctor visits to deal with other medical conditions or cannot get a bed in an emergency room if they need one?

    Yes, it is past time that we started fining the people who are creating that reality.

  7. #1012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Politely...

    Folks are making this more complicated than it actually is.

    - You drink and drive? Fined.

    - You don't wear a helmet on a motorcycle? Fined.

    - You don't wear a seat belt? Fined.

    This already happens all of the time.

    In an instance where folks who are not vaccinated are absolutely creating a situation where everyone else has to put off regular doctor visits to deal with other medical conditions or cannot get a bed in an emergency room if they need one?

    Yes, it is past time that we started fining the people who are creating that reality.
    I'm holding on to hope that this all becomes a moot point because of the omicron trend we're seeing. It's getting everyone - vaccinated, unvaccinated, and even boosted (Geraldo Rivera and AOC as recent examples). Cases are through the roof but hospitalizations and deaths have not seen that level of increase since symptoms have been mild. I truly pray it remains the dominant variant.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  8. #1013

    Default

    Pfizer CEO says two Covid vaccine doses aren’t ‘enough for omicron’
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/pfiz...r-omicron.html

    “The two doses, they’re not enough for omicron,” Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said.

    Bourla said the two-dose vaccine does not provide robust protection against infection and its ability to prevent hospitalization has also declined.

    He said third shots are providing good protection against death, and “decent” protection against hospitalization.
    Related:

    Pfizer CEO says omicron vaccine will be ready in March
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/covi...-in-march.html

    Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said an omicron vaccine will be ready in March, and the company is already manufacturing doses.

    Bourla said the goal is to produce a vaccine that is much better at preventing infection from omicron.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  9. #1014
    Incredible Member Captain Nostalgia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    It's just... not a nice way of doing things. We're supposed to be the good guys, and... having free health care but charging those we don't agree with is... no. It's not, not, not good. A dangerous slope to go down.
    I imagine the NHS is under the same financial & personnel strain as the Canadian health service right now. As the hospitalizations are filled with mostly unvaccinated people, and they are more likely to spread COVID, there should be a consequence for their actions.

    Why should I have to have my taxes raised for people who fry their brains on political conspiracy theories, who if given the choice would most likely not support public health care if they had to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Depending on one's insurance here in the States they'll have to pay for their hospital stay indeed, but I'm not sure how the medical system in Canada works. Is it all taxpayer funded? Because that of course makes a big difference in the debate and I agree people should pay for their hospital stays based on their personal choices.
    Yes, Canada is all taxpayer funded, so it it a different issue up here and in the UK which is two tiered.

    But I agree with you. If your living down in the United States and choose not to get vaccinated, than you should pay for your hospital stay, or be prepared to see your private insurance rates go up.

    There should be a consequence for putting political beliefs ahead of science and the safety of your local community.

  10. #1015
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    29,884

    Default

    For some who recently contracted Covid, an unexpected emotion: Relief

    When Daniel Storm found out he had Covid-19, he was shocked. He had been so careful, barely socializing and always wearing a mask whenever he left the house.

    His PCR test results arrived by email on Jan. 8. As he stared at the word “positive,” Storm, 52, of Wilmington, North Carolina, said he felt angry and disappointed.

    Then, relief washed over him.

    “I feel like I’ve been kind of walking on pins and needles, like omicron is everywhere,” Storm said of the hyper transmissible Covid variant.
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
    Eclectic Connoisseur of all things written, drawn, or imaginatively created.

  11. #1016
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    It's just... not a nice way of doing things. We're supposed to be the good guys, and... having free health care but charging those we don't agree with is... no. It's not, not, not good. A dangerous slope to go down.

    ...
    As for this...

    We are pretty squarely in "Golden Rule..." territory.

    Here in Illinois, our CBS affiliate had a story about a man whose mother was in "In Hospital..." hospice care because of the medical care that she needed. He could not spend any time with her at the end because the hospital is essentially locked down because of Covid care.

    If that guy is in that spot because you won't get a shot?

    I am well past the point where I am going to waste a second of my time caring about being "Nice..." to you when you clearly cannot be bothered with caring about anyone but yourself.

    Taxing/Fining those folks is just where I would be getting started.

  12. #1017
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,725

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post

    There should be a consequence for putting political beliefs ahead of science and the safety of your local community.
    I’d suggest it’s all about finding a regime, which encourages near universal vaccination, which feels acceptable to the large majority of people.

    If you look at analogy with smoking mentioned by others…in UK it’s heavily taxed (I guess 70 percent of cost of a packet of cigarettes), and that tax take generates large amounts of money that benefits non smokers and smokers alike. (It’s a long time since I looked at figures, but last time I did it more than paid for extra health care caused by smoking.) In addition smokers accept they cannot smoke in many places, to protect others health.

    The legal regime is about right I feel. (Though obviously I’d prefer everyone to stop smoking, it’s ruined the life of people I love.)

    Similarly I feel we should make non-vaccination less attractive. Presently I’d stop short of imposing fines or charging extra for an element of health care…but would be more comfortable with “vaccine passports” being used more widely for things like pubs, restaurants, football matches, etc.

    But think I’m in minority on that in UK…think majority are still reasonably happy to try to just encourage even wider vaccination by stressing the positive health benefits.

  13. #1018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I’d suggest it’s all about finding a regime, which encourages near universal vaccination, which feels acceptable to the large majority of people.

    If you look at analogy with smoking mentioned by others…in UK it’s heavily taxed (I guess 70 percent of cost of a packet of cigarettes), and that tax take generates large amounts of money that benefits non smokers and smokers alike. (It’s a long time since I looked at figures, but last time I did it more than paid for extra health care caused by smoking.) In addition smokers accept they cannot smoke in many places, to protect others health.

    The legal regime is about right I feel. (Though obviously I’d prefer everyone to stop smoking, it’s ruined the life of people I love.)

    Similarly I feel we should make non-vaccination less attractive. Presently I’d stop short of imposing fines or charging extra for an element of health care…but would be more comfortable with “vaccine passports” being used more widely for things like pubs, restaurants, football matches, etc.

    But think I’m in minority on that in UK…think majority are still reasonably happy to try to just encourage even wider vaccination by stressing the positive health benefits.
    I was reading that the "Plan B" restrictions will be assessed in your country and possibly scrapped later this month. I'm cautiously hopeful that it goes well as the science keeps changing.

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...ry-26-22770367
    Health Secretary Sajid Javid is said to be 'sure' that the restrictions will not be needed after the January deadline, and is expected to formally announce in the coming days that the restrictions will not be renewed.

    The government source said Javid feels confident about the decision because of the falling number of cases and evidence that Omicron is not as dangerous as other variants.

    The expected announcement comes after a government health advisor said Covid cases appear to be 'plateauing' in parts of the UK.

    Dr Susan Hopkins, the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) chief medical adviser, said London, the South East and East of England were seeing the number of infections flatten.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  14. #1019
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    29,884

    Default

    United CEO says vaccine mandate appears to have ended weekly deaths of employees from Covid

    A companywide vaccine mandate appears to have ended a grim weekly event at United Airlines — the death of an employee from Covid-19, the carrier’s top executive said Tuesday.

    While there are 3,000 United workers now infected with the virus, "zero of our vaccinated employees are currently hospitalized," CEO Scott Kirby said in an open letter to the workforce.

    The airline chief painted a stark picture of the deadly toll Covid-19 has taken on his company.

    "Prior to our vaccine requirement, tragically, more than one United employee on average *per week* was dying from COVID," Kirby wrote.

    "But we’ve now gone eight straight weeks with zero COVID-related deaths among our vaccinated employees — based on United’s prior experience and the nationwide data related to COVID fatalities among the unvaccinated, that means there are approximately 8-10 United employees who are alive today because of our vaccine requirement."
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
    Eclectic Connoisseur of all things written, drawn, or imaginatively created.

  15. #1020
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Unfortunately not in the way other countries do. I have insurance through Obamacare but it's really through a private company and I pay every month.
    Oh, that's a pity. So was it ultimately just a 'cheaper' health insurance option than what was before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Ultimately I agree with you.
    We are smart people!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I'm sure it's different with each country but the director of our CDC last week said that over 75% of the people we lost had at least 4 co-morbidities. In her own words, they "were already unwell." One could argue that people who didn't take care of themselves were why the hospitals were stretched beyond control in 2020 when there were no vaccines. I don't feel that way but perhaps a lot of the deaths could have been avoided if we weren't such an already unhealthy country. Unfortunately that's a taboo topic to discuss.
    It's the same here, most of ICU is full of unvaccinated. The ones really taking a knock from it are only those without the vaccine and follow up jab. But I hope people still keep being sensible. I've never contracted it, to my knowledge, and still only go into London is it's for work. No parties for me, and I always mask up and wash my hands like a boss. I don't only rely on the vaccine and booster. I don't like playing with fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Politely...
    Folks are making this more complicated than it actually is.
    - You drink and drive? Fined.
    - You don't wear a helmet on a motorcycle? Fined.
    - You don't wear a seat belt? Fined.
    This already happens all of the time.
    Politely... those are all already against the highway law. Being unvaccinated is not. Now who's comparing apples to oranges

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    I imagine the NHS is under the same financial & personnel strain as the Canadian health service right now. As the hospitalizations are filled with mostly unvaccinated people, and they are more likely to spread COVID, there should be a consequence for their actions.
    There are... they die. They get long Covid. They experience serious damaging long term effects, which will effect their quality of life. THAT is the consequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    Why should I have to have my taxes raised for people who fry their brains on political conspiracy theories, who if given the choice would most likely not support public health care if they had to.
    I completely understand that logic, but then... I work out twice a day. I eat well. Why should my taxes go on the poor health of people choosing to not take care of their body? Do you see the problem we come across? We can't withholding medical care because we don't agree with people and their choices. It's just wrong. It's akin to being against abortion and therefore not offering the right care to someone seeking an abortion (in full disregard of the Hippocratic Oath), forcing them to go private or to a different state. Our personal beliefs and feelings should not, on any level, effect the level of care we give. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    There should be a consequence for putting political beliefs ahead of science and the safety of your local community.
    It's not always political beliefs. And don't get me wrong, GOD, unvaccinated people drive me crazy. They have so little logic to their opinions. But it's their right to not be vaccinated, as sh*tty as it is. It's people's right to never get a job and live off the state, or eat a cheeseburger a day, smoke two packs a day. And I may not agree with their choice in any of it. But we don't start withholding medical care. That's just wrong. Withhold privileges, absolutely. If you're not vaccinated you can't have this job, go to this restaurant, enter this tennis tournament, absolutely. Those are privileges. Medical care is like education, it's a fundamental right we cannot withhold because we don't like their choices or who they are as people.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 01-17-2022 at 07:44 AM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •