All About Vaccines

[Scott Taylor]

The confusing leadership has been a problem through the pandemic. Its really has seemed like there was no face to getting us through it, and the closest has been Fauci. Something I'm cool with because he's a fellow runner (still runs at least a mile per day, from what I understand).

[achilles]

The confusing leadership has been a problem through the pandemic. Its really has seemed like there was no face to getting us through it, and the closest has been Fauci. Something I'm cool with because he's a fellow runner (still runs at least a mile per day, from what I understand).

The problem with Fauci is that he's admitted to lying several times to the public about things like mask wearing, herd immunity, and others things, plus he changes his advice almost daily. Kind of hard to believe him now. Ditto the CDC, and WHO, given the CDC's connections to the CCP and also their wildly varying advice.

[Kirby101]

The problem with Fauci is that he's admitted to lying several times to the public about things like mask wearing, herd immunity, and others things, plus he changes his advice almost daily. Kind of hard to believe him now. Ditto the CDC, and WHO, given the CDC's connections to the CCP and also their wildly varying advice.

He admitted to not recommending masks early on because he feared that there would be enough for essential health workers. You would have to site where he lied about herd immunity and other things. The advice changed at times because the science was ever evolving. Even the latest CDC recommendations are due to newer studies coming out.
What is the CCP?

[achilles]

He admitted to not recommending masks early on because he feared that there would be enough for essential health workers. You would have to site where he lied about herd immunity and other things. The advice changed at times because the science was ever evolving. Even the latest CDC recommendations are due to newer studies coming out.
What is the CCP?

A lie is a lie, and Fauci lied straight to the American people. And his lie caused quite a bit of harm by causing even more people to not wear masks.

A quote from an interview with him:

Fauci indicated that he based his shifting statements on public polling on the popularity of coronavirus vaccines.

"When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent," Fauci said. "Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

He continued: "We really don’t know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent."

Don't get me wrong, I'm a couple days away from full vaccine protection, and I'll continue to wear masks as advised, but I can see why so many others who aren't even of the anti-vax types, can be suspicious and confused. Messaging hasn't been the best...by anyone in power.

[Tami]

A lie is a lie, and Fauci lied straight to the American people. And his lie caused quite a bit of harm by causing even more people to not wear masks.

A quote from an interview with him:




Don't get me wrong, I'm a couple days away from full vaccine protection, and I'll continue to wear masks as advised, but I can see why so many others who aren't even of the anti-vax types, can be suspicious and confused. Messaging hasn't been the best...by anyone in power.

I have no idea where this quote came from so I have no way of verifying its accuracy, however, even if the quote is accurate how does it constitute a lie? It sounds to me like he is explaining the methodology that was used to come up with his assessment and conclusion.

That does not define a lie, it defines a basis for a conclusion based on the best information currently available at the time.

[achilles]

Try this. It's from the Washington Examiner, but the sources are credited from CNN and the NYT among others.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...sed-on-polling

His basic thrust was that he could maybe get people to accept a low level herd immunity, and then he'd go for a higher goal. And again. It was an arrogant rationale at best, and lies at worst, no matter what his intentions. Going straight up and saying differing things when he thought they were wrong isn't helping.

[Tami]

Try this. It's from the Washington Examiner, but the sources are credited from CNN and the NYT among others.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...sed-on-polling

His basic thrust was that he could maybe get people to accept a low level herd immunity, and then he'd go for a higher goal. And again. It was an arrogant rationale at best, and lies at worst, no matter what his intentions. Going straight up and saying differing things when he thought they were wrong isn't helping.

First of all, that was 2020 when Trump was still President, making life miserable for anyone with a Science Degree.

Second, it's the Washington Examiner

How Much Herd Immunity Is Enough?

In the pandemic’s early days, Dr. Fauci tended to cite the same 60 to 70 percent estimate that most experts did. About a month ago, he began saying “70, 75 percent” in television interviews. And last week, in an interview with CNBC News, he said “75, 80, 85 percent” and “75 to 80-plus percent.”

In a telephone interview the next day, Dr. Fauci acknowledged that he had slowly but deliberately been moving the goal posts. He is doing so, he said, partly based on new science, and partly on his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks.

Hard as it may be to hear, he said, he believes that it may take close to 90 percent immunity to bring the virus to a halt — almost as much as is needed to stop a measles outbreak.

Asked about Dr. Fauci’s conclusions, prominent epidemiologists said that he might be proven right. The early range of 60 to 70 percent was almost undoubtedly too low, they said, and the virus is becoming more transmissible, so it will take greater herd immunity to stop it.

Dr. Fauci said that weeks ago, he had hesitated to publicly raise his estimate because many Americans seemed hesitant about vaccines, which they would need to accept almost universally in order for the country to achieve herd immunity.

Now that some polls are showing that many more Americans are ready, even eager, for vaccines, he said he felt he could deliver the tough message that the return to normal might take longer than anticipated.

“When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Dr. Fauci said. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”

“We need to have some humility here,” he added. “We really don’t know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent.”

That sounds like a straightforward and honest assessment of the current state of knowledge at the time.

Remember, medical and Public Health science is by nature often a slow process. It could take years of observation, lab analysis of viruses, and other studies in order to come up with the most accurate and effective results. But when you are dealing with an emergency, a pandemic that has cost so many their lives, you can't be silent. You can't just say, 'sorry, I can't tell you what to do or help you since we still need to study this some more.' You have to act quickly, using the best available information that you have, and if needed work on your experience and gut instincts.

Dr. Fauci was doing what he could to get people to take the vaccines once they were ready. He made an initial conservative estimate, then later decided that he could make a more aggressive and precise estimate.

That is how it works sometimes.

[achilles]

Well, I do seem to recall President Biden ordering a super fast program to make vaccines that all the "science" people including Fauci laughed at. Fortunately, President Biden didn't listen to him. Win for science, I guess.

Also, ignoring the bits where he does in fact admit to lying to influence behavior, (though I had no idea he was an expert on that too)....doesn't do anyone any favors. We need a reputable voice giving us that information, not one who admits to telling us what he thinks we can take at any given time. There's also a disturbing authoritarian bent to this. Rather than asking us to do something after explaining the science behind it, they lied to us instead, because they thought we're all idiots. Sure, some are, the anti-vaxers or the people who refuse to wear a mask out of courtesy, but they're not going to stop us from getting out of this.

[Tami]

Well, I do seem to recall President Biden ordering a super fast program to make vaccines that all the "science" people including Fauci laughed at. Fortunately, President Biden didn't listen to him. Win for science, I guess.

Also, ignoring the bits where he does in fact admit to lying to influence behavior, (though I had no idea he was an expert on that too)....doesn't do anyone any favors. We need a reputable voice giving us that information, not one who admits to telling us what he thinks we can take at any given time. There's also a disturbing authoritarian bent to this. Rather than asking us to do something after explaining the science behind it, they lied to us instead, because they thought we're all idiots. Sure, some are, the anti-vaxers or the people who refuse to wear a mask out of courtesy, but they're not going to stop us from getting out of this.

It's no more a lie than telling someone you will be arriving at their home or business in a half-hour, then running into unexpected traffic and having to call them from the car and say that the trip will take longer than you thought it would.

[anyajenkins]

Not really. In that case, you are saying something you believe to be true, but an unforeseen event happens. In both of the other cases, the masks and the herd immunity, he said things he didn’t think were true, but would be better in the long run. Even this change in the cdc mask recommendation. When they first said that, I pretty assumed it was because they didn’t want to give the ant maskers and were waiting for vaccine rates to go up. So this wasn’t a big surprise, but I still wore it, still got the shot. Some of the people I know who were big mask believers are like in shock, feel betrayed almost. They’re like but what about break through cases, and variants, we’re not at heard immunity! So I’m still fine, but I don’t know if this was the best idea overall.

[achilles]

Not really. In that case, you are saying something you believe to be true, but an unforeseen event happens. In both of the other cases, the masks and the herd immunity, he said things he didn’t think were true, but would be better in the long run. Even this change in the cdc mask recommendation. When they first said that, I pretty assumed it was because they didn’t want to give the ant maskers and were waiting for vaccine rates to go up. So this wasn’t a big surprise, but I still wore it, still got the shot. Some of the people I know who were big mask believers are like in shock, feel betrayed almost. They’re like but what about break through cases, and variants, we’re not at heard immunity! So I’m still fine, but I don’t know if this was the best idea overall.

When you lie about something knowingly, as he did, it will eventually come out, and people will stop believing him. That's the real damage he did.

[achilles]

It's no more a lie than telling someone you will be arriving at their home or business in a half-hour, then running into unexpected traffic and having to call them from the car and say that the trip will take longer than you thought it would.

Let me see, Biden taking credit for something he had nothing to do and in fact mocked as impossible in the time frame Trump gave, (Fauci also mocked it, as did others), in the time frame promised, taking credit for a million vaccinations a day, (which had been happening under Trump, and then publicly saying he'd NEVER take a Trump vaccine, as did Harris, Pelosi, and others, isn't helping any more than those Republican idiots who do the same thing. How many lives did that cost?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...nt/ar-BB18QXKj

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-c...-check-1569904

[achilles]

And today I am fully vaccinated with maximum effect. So that's good.

[shooshoomanjoe]

The problem with Fauci is that he's admitted to lying several times to the public about things like mask wearing, herd immunity, and others things, plus he changes his advice almost daily. Kind of hard to believe him now. Ditto the CDC, and WHO, given the CDC's connections to the CCP and also their wildly varying advice.

Similar things were happening when AIDS was new and unknown. They keep changing information because COVID is still new and unknown.

[CaptainEurope]

Well, I do seem to recall President Biden ordering a super fast program to make vaccines that all the "science" people including Fauci laughed at. Fortunately, President Biden didn't listen to him. Win for science, I guess.
.

The hell are you talking about?