All About Vaccines

[Tami]

By the way, here is a great resource about the history of the two polio vaccines:


https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio

A very good resource, thanks for the link.

[JB]

As with everything novel, they probably learned as they went along, to a certain extent. Medical Professionals and scientists might have run tests, if they could, but the long term results can only be found though real lie usage and observation.

Agreed. The data changes regularly as we continue forward. A cruise ship recently had an outbreak despite full vaccination being required by all, passengers and staff. The best thing to do while all of this data continues to pour in is to keep as safe as you can.

17 Covid-19 cases identified on New Orleans-bound cruise ship
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/us/cr...ses/index.html

The Covid-19 positive case count among crew and passengers aboard the Norwegian Cruise Line ship Breakaway has risen to 17, according to the Louisiana Department of Health.

The ship disembarked in New Orleans on Sunday and previously had detected 10 cases of Covid-19.
All crew members and passengers are fully vaccinated and all of the 10 cases first reported were asymptomatic, the cruise line said in a statement Sunday.

[numberthirty]

Maybe it's that English is not ma first language, but that was a really strange way of putting that both covid and polio take several shots to get under control, but there are differences.

Also: Polio is hindsight. Did they know how many shots it would take going into it? Or did they learn as they went along?

Politely, you kinda hit on the point there.

As of right now?

If we are learning as we go along?

We need to accept that this looks like a largely different picture than Polio because of the very nature of the current set of tools we have to slow it down on what is something like the "Vaccine..." front.

(Even though they are not really vaccines in the way we think of them...)

It's just not exactly "Apples..."/"Apples..." with how Polio was wiped out. Being realistic about that will be important when it comes to trying to get Covid under control.

[numberthirty]

Agreed. The data changes regularly as we continue forward. A cruise ship recently had an outbreak despite full vaccination being required by all, passengers and staff. The best thing to do while all of this data continues to pour in is to keep as safe as you can.

17 Covid-19 cases identified on New Orleans-bound cruise ship
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/us/cr...ses/index.html

The Covid-19 positive case count among crew and passengers aboard the Norwegian Cruise Line ship Breakaway has risen to 17, according to the Louisiana Department of Health.

The ship disembarked in New Orleans on Sunday and previously had detected 10 cases of Covid-19.
All crew members and passengers are fully vaccinated and all of the 10 cases first reported were asymptomatic, the cruise line said in a statement Sunday.

Again, this sort of thing is an actual hitch that we will need to internalize if we are going to be serious about getting things under control.

[Tami]

I'm not sure how, but I think that there may need to be a clear distinction made between asymptomatic or mild COVID-19 cases versus severe symptomatic cases that may require hospitalization.

Like the flu, ,COVID-19 might be with us for a long time. The big question is can we get to the point where we can live with it without large scale hospitalizations and deaths?

Before we worry about the occasional positive test, we first need to worry about those who get severely ill from it.

Vaccinations should help with this and I think that is where the talk should focus on.

It needs to get tot he point where people are not afraid of getting sick, since they know it will be mild and that they will get over it and be able to return to their normal lives within a week or three.

[numberthirty]

Well, that is a whole other kettle of fish...

This month, the Governor here in Illinois was talking about monoclonal antibodies.

No matter what you think of DeSantis overall, how long has he already been doing just that?

Personally, I feel like there has been a really odd focus on vaccination that puts the "Treatment..." angle off to the side.

It feels like putting some more eggs into that basket makes sense.

Like getting real about that you need good options for treating lung cancer if folks won't heed a "Non-Smoking..." ad.

(Yeah, I get that Covid/Lung Cancer is not exactly "Apples/Apples...")

[Tami]

Well, that is a whole other kettle of fish...

This month, the Governor here in Illinois was talking about monoclonal antibodies.

No matter what you think of DeSantis overall, how long has he already been doing just that?

Personally, I feel like there has been a really odd focus on vaccination that puts the "Treatment..." angle off to the side.

It feels like putting some more eggs into that basket makes sense.

Like getting real about that you need good options for treating lung cancer if folks won't heed a "Non-Smoking..." ad.

(Yeah, I get that Covid/Lung Cancer is not exactly "Apples/Apples...")

The treatment angle is still being pushed. Problem is, that the treatments are just that, one shot treatments. They don't keep a person from becoming reinfected, possibly worse than the first time.

Another issue with the treatments is that they need to be administered ASAP. Not everyone tests regularly, some don't find out that they are sick until it hits them like a freight train. By then it might be too late to administer the treatments. It's fantastic that we have options, but we need to know the limits of them.

Vaccines don't guarantee that a person will never get infected. But they do offer long term protection against getting really sick.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The treatment angle is still being pushed. Problem is, that the treatments are just that, one shot treatments. They don't keep a person from becoming reinfected, possibly worse than the first time.

Another issue with the treatments is that they need to be administered ASAP. Not everyone tests regularly, some don't find out that they are sick until it hits them like a freight train. By then it might be too late to administer the treatments. It's fantastic that we have options, but we need to know the limits of them.

Vaccines don't guarantee that a person will never get infected. But they do offer long term protection against getting really sick.

By the way, don’t you have to pay for monoclonal antibodies? Why shell out god knows how much for that treatment when the vaccine is free?

[JB]

I'm not sure how, but I think that there may need to be a clear distinction made between asymptomatic or mild COVID-19 cases versus severe symptomatic cases that may require hospitalization.

Like the flu, ,COVID-19 might be with us for a long time. The big question is can we get to the point where we can live with it without large scale hospitalizations and deaths?

Before we worry about the occasional positive test, we first need to worry about those who get severely ill from it.

Vaccinations should help with this and I think that is where the talk should focus on.

It needs to get tot he point where people are not afraid of getting sick, since they know it will be mild and that they will get over it and be able to return to their normal lives within a week or three.

Omicron thankfully so far has shown mild symptoms to both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. This could of course change overnight but so far no reported deaths. UK health experts seem to think it's going to take over delta as the dominant variant very soon. If so, let us hope the symptoms remain mild.

[JB]

By the way, don’t you have to pay for monoclonal antibodies? Why shell out god knows how much for that treatment when the vaccine is free?

In some places they are free as I believe state governments are covering the cost of opening up clinics. Apparently you can get vaccinated or receive monoclonal antibody treatment. It's a great option for people that medically cannot be vaccinated as directed by their doctors.

[numberthirty]

By the way, don’t you have to pay for monoclonal antibodies? Why shell out god knows how much for that treatment when the vaccine is free?

That's like saying...

"Why shell out the money for lung cancer treatment when quitting smoking is will actually save yo money?..."

Need to be able to deal with the actual reality of things even if we wish they were different.

[Kirby101]

Nice how you give DeSantis credit for helping his biggest donor while opposing prevention. Great leadership there.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden...424e19b3ed994f

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — who has been criticized for opposing mask mandates and vaccine passports — is now touting a COVID-19 antibody treatment in which a top donor’s company has invested millions of dollars.

[numberthirty]

Nice how you give DeSantis credit for helping his biggest donor while opposing prevention. Great leadership there.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden...424e19b3ed994f

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — who has been criticized for opposing mask mandates and vaccine passports — is now touting a COVID-19 antibody treatment in which a top donor’s company has invested millions of dollars.

"Basics 101..." -

Unless it has all be one long con that Biden and Pritzker were in on the entire time?

I do not care one bit if a treatment that actually helps people is something that someone's donors make money off of.

Complete non-issue.

An option that will help folks who are sick is a net positive. End of discussion.

That he is a blockhead on the "Ounce Of Prevention..." front is a separate kettle of fish.

[JB]

Unfortunately there are a lot of issues when it comes to big pharma and politics, but that's been the case for a very long time.

Big Pharma still largest lobbying spender as Biden signs crackdown executive order, House seeks to pass bill lowering drug prices
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/202...den-crackdown/

The crackdown on Big Pharma from the executive branch also comes as a new House report targets 14 pharmaceutical companies for spending more on stock buybacks and dividends than they did on research and development over a five-year period. The 14 companies spent a combined $31 million in the first quarter of 2021 on lobbying.

Pfizer Inc. spent the most of the 14 companies on lobbying, and was the second biggest spender in the Pharmaceuticals and Health Products Industry, at about $3.7 million. Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America was the top spender.

But I agree with numberthirty in that if their products are helping people, then it is what it is.

[numberthirty]

Ok, one guy's take...

I completely get the frustration with that DeSantis is straight up heading in the wrong direction on trying to sell citizens of Florida on getting vaccinated.

All that said?

I don't believe for one second that the citizens of Florida who haven't got the shot change their minds if DeSantis walks up to a podium Monday morning and calls for Florida's folks who have not to finally get the shot.

Once I have accepted that reality?

The only issue is creating the best medications possible for folks who are sick because they dug their heels in. They are the priority.

How and why the treatments that will help them came to be and are out there?

It's an issue that isn't worth wasting any time on.

(Well, barring something like the possibility that DeSantis has taken some sort of an illegal bribe from that company...)