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  1. #76
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    Johnson & Johnson?
    Yep. Janssen is the subsidiary of J&J that developed the vaccine.

    Already getting grief for getting the vaccine from people I know who are disbelievers in COVID and vaccines. Apparently my skin is going to burn off. Sounds bad, but basically I will be the Human Torch.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 03-30-2021 at 03:15 PM.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  2. #77
    Spectacular Member captchuck's Avatar
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    I got the first Pfizer shot two weeks ago. I'm trying to schedule the 2nd one for next week. Only a little soreness in my arm, no big deal...

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Yep. Janssen is the subsidiary of J&J that developed the vaccine.

    Already getting grief for getting the vaccine from people I know who are disbelievers in COVID and vaccines. Apparently my skin is going to burn off. Sounds bad, but basically I will be the Human Torch.
    Good Luck. I am sure you will be fine.

    Did you pick the vaccine you wanted or that is what was offered?
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  4. #79
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Yep. Janssen is the subsidiary of J&J that developed the vaccine.

    Already getting grief for getting the vaccine from people I know who are disbelievers in COVID and vaccines. Apparently my skin is going to burn off. Sounds bad, but basically I will be the Human Torch.
    Hey! You'll have your Superpower!
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  5. #80
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Good Luck. I am sure you will be fine.

    Did you pick the vaccine you wanted or that is what was offered?
    I'd have taken any of them, but this was the one they offered me on the day when my group was up for the vaccinations. It worked out because my (slight) preference was for the Janssen one, being a single shot and done.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  6. #81
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    The way these vaccines work is fascinating to me, has been ever since I took microbiology in college. The COVID virus does two things to our cells - it creates a spikey container for the virus and then creates more copies of the virus. The viruses essentially get inside the spikey container and are protected an extra measure by it from our normal immune response. COVID is especially virulent because of that whole dynamic.

    So the Janssen vaccine uses a cold virus to deliver instructions to the cells to start making the spikey containers that COVID creates when it invades. This, in turn, triggers our immune system to create antibodies specific to breaking that spikey container. So basically the vaccine turns your normal antibodies into little tank missiles.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  7. #82
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    The blood clods from this vaccine are very different and more lethal than the ones from birth control, so it's not a useful comparison. My chancelor is on tv right now explaining the decision, and as you know, she is a scientist.
    Are WHO not made up of scientists?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    So I would ask you to retract your claim about stupid fear mongering.
    Covid is a colossal threat to the world, to literally MILLIONS of lives lost. Is the blood clot? NO! And this fear-mongering will encourage more people to not trust the vaccine and more people to therefore not get it and die than would have ever died from blood clots. And actively causing your citizens to die, due to unnecessary fear-mongering, to me... is stupid. Or at the very least poor leadership. ESPECIALLY when we've already done this dance before, and the back-peddling... ugh. It's been tested, rigorously. More rigorously than most medicines everyone takes every day of their lives. If she is a scientist she'd know that. If she's a scientist she'd know every single piece of medicine out there has someone, somewhere who has the genetic make-up that, very tragically, causes an allergic reaction to it. And it's not fair. And that's hard and brutal and my heart goes out to them. But medicine is like that, vaccines are like that. There is no 'one size fits all' there just isn't. And these cases are still so small in number you don't so casually throw such doubt on these vaccines that are the only route out of this year of hell.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 03-30-2021 at 04:03 PM.
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  8. #83
    Fantastic Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    We're not saying not to get vaccinated. I cannot wait, personally. But I am kind of glad it won't be AstraZeneca at this point, just hope my wait does not get much longer over this. The Curevac release seems to have been pushed to June. But BioNtech is doing pretty good with cranking up production.

    And again: If you tell any German that Angela Merkel, of all people, is fEaR mONgErIng, even her enemies will laugh in your face. This was clearly a difficult decision with some back and forth, but all major medical universities in Germany advised the government to do this, and the federal vaccination commission. The point is that the blood clod cases appear in an age group that has a very low risk to die from covid (although the new mutations might change that), so the risk-use assessment is tipping here. We're still vaccinating people with AstraZeneca, but it's only people 60 and up, who are (a) evidently less likely to develop the complication, and (b) more likely to die from covid.

    WHO is notoriously slow. Remember how long it took them to accept that SARS-Cov-2 is airborne? THAT slowness got people killed.
    Last edited by CaptainEurope; 03-30-2021 at 10:49 PM.

  9. #84
    Fantastic Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Here is a very good English language twitter thread by a German virologist.

    Key points:

    Let’s start with what doctors have actually observed in some AZ vaccinees:
    This is not about your garden-variety thromboses. It’s wide-spread clotting with rare thromboses like cerebral venous thromboses coupled with a low platelet count, a very unusual picture.


    Most hematologists will immediately think of disseminated intravascular coagulation DIC (“Verbrauchskoagulopathie” for Germans). That is usually seen in patients with sepsis or severe trauma or sometimes cancer patients. But none of that is the case here.

    That is why doctors started thinking about HIT (heparin-induced thrombocytopenia) which can have a similar clinical picture. It happens in rare cases when patients are given the blood thinner heparin.
    ...
    Greinacher and other scientists think that something similar may be happening here - only without heparin.
    The mechanism is still unclear but the researchers we talked to all agreed that the symptoms were so particular that it looked like something real caused by the vaccine.

    1. Norway has vaccinated 130,000 people with AZ and they have seen five such cases, three of whom died.
    That's a lot, about one case in 25,000 vaccinees. As
    @SaraWatle
    told me, that’s "a high number with a very critical outcome in previously healthy, young individuals”.

    2. Germany has vaccinated roughly 2,1 million people with AZ.
    @PEI_Germany
    told me that until noon Thursday, 21 cerebral venous thromboses had been reported, incl. 7 deaths.
    In 12 cases thrombocytopenia was also reported (it’s not clear for the other cases).

    3. Then there is the UK, which has given more than 10 million doses of AZ and has reported only 5 such cases. Did they miss cases because they were vaccinating elderly people first? Is something else going on? That will be on thread to follow in next weeks.

    And what about use of the vaccine?
    Some context first:
    It’s never just about risks, but the balance of risk and benefit. We know some vaccines have serious, rare side effects like the yellow fever vaccine for instance. We still use them because the benefits outweigh the risks.

    But with #covid19 the risk of dying is very different for a 75 year old and a 25 year old. And so some countries like France and Finland have made what seems a reasonable choice:
    use the AZ vaccine only in the elderly where benefit most clearly outweighs risk.
    Further down in the thread are links to the actual scientific papers looking into the effect, published 2 days ago.

  10. #85
    Fantastic Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    AstraZeneca's broken promises cause problems for countries that heavily banked on it:

    Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia and Slovakia, which declined part of their Pfizer allotments to wait for Astra doses, are among the slowest in the bloc to administer vaccines, according to a European Union document seen by Bloomberg. While Pfizer has met its commitments, Astra has delivered just 30 million of its originally committed 120 million doses in the first quarter.

    As a result, Bulgaria and Croatia are expected to vaccinate 45% of their populations by the middle of the year, according to the document, the lowest in the EU after the Czech Republic. Estonia will vaccinate 50%, Latvia 53% and Slovakia 46%. That compares to 61% in Germany, 80% in Denmark and 93% in Malta.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...itter-business

    Outside the EU, it's also a problem for COVAX countries. I think the international community needs to step up quickly to get more vaccine production going.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    We're not saying not to get vaccinated. I cannot wait, personally. But I am kind of glad it won't be AstraZeneca at this point, just hope my wait does not get much longer over this. The Curevac release seems to have been pushed to June. But BioNtech is doing pretty good with cranking up production.

    And again: If you tell any German that Angela Merkel, of all people, is fEaR mONgErIng, even her enemies will laugh in your face. This was clearly a difficult decision with some back and forth, but all major medical universities in Germany advised the government to do this, and the federal vaccination commission. The point is that the blood clod cases appear in an age group that has a very low risk to die from covid (although the new mutations might change that), so the risk-use assessment is tipping here. We're still vaccinating people with AstraZeneca, but it's only people 60 and up, who are (a) evidently less likely to develop the complication, and (b) more likely to die from covid.

    WHO is notoriously slow. Remember how long it took them to accept that SARS-Cov-2 is airborne? THAT slowness got people killed.

    Not looked at figures in detail, but think there seems to be at least some indication that women of a certain age are far more likely to be effected than other group.

    (It’s odd how often whether male or female has a significant impact on risk...obviously for some illnesses one would expect a difference, but pretty often it has a totally unexpected impact.)

    I’ve had first jab (Astra Zeneca) and will certainly have second one...but if I was different age and female..I might prefer a different vaccine.

  12. #87
    Fantastic Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Not looked at figures in detail, but think there seems to be at least some indication that women of a certain age are far more likely to be effected than other group.

    (It’s odd how often whether male or female has a significant impact on risk...obviously for some illnesses one would expect a difference, but pretty often it has a totally unexpected impact.)

    I’ve had first jab (Astra Zeneca) and will certainly have second one...but if I was different age and female..I might prefer a different vaccine.
    One German virologist I quoted earlier in the thread pointed out that, because of prioritization of the elderly and frontline workers, the majority of younger people that have so far been vaccinated with AstraZeneca have been female: nurses, kindergarten teachers etc. So it's not sure if the much higher percentage of women affected isn't just because of that.

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    I got my second jab Thursday, and I did have a minor reaction, but it was a night of feeling lethargic and my back (which had recently been strained) reseting the pain level to the worst day since the injury. After getting a night's sleep (or a morning's sleep since I work overnights) I was back to normal. I've had colds worse than that, especially since I am pretty sure the back pain wouldn't have been there without the pre-existing strain beforehand.

    Still better then getting Covid. I ended up with the Moderna vaccine, and my wife might be able to get her first jab in a couple weeks, since Nevada is apparently going to start getting to the "everyone else" group in a couple of days.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    One German virologist I quoted earlier in the thread pointed out that, because of prioritization of the elderly and frontline workers, the majority of younger people that have so far been vaccinated with AstraZeneca have been female: nurses, kindergarten teachers etc. So it's not sure if the much higher percentage of women affected isn't just because of that.
    I’d not thought about that. In UK we’ve administered 18 million doses, 30 cases of blood clots, with 7 (of those 30) dying. So far, I’ve not seen any details (age and sex) on those UK cases, so your virologist’s theory might be right.

    It’s still clearly safer to have the AZ jab than not be vaccinated at all (and as I said earlier will be having my second AZ without hesitation), but I can understand your preference for another.

  15. #90
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    My Johnson and Johnson single dose shot went well. Its been two days and no reaction at all, other than a little tiredness that first day.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

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