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  1. #256
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    You also send actual recon and stealth people on recon and Stealth missions. Again... Mutants like ForgetMeNot and Cipher and a teleporter should have gone in to map out the place and gauge the threat level, and then gtfo. The minute direct conflict happens, the chances of escaping with meaningful and useful info decreases.
    But the environment might have killed the teleporter on the spot. Those 3 are resistant to pretty much anything.

  2. #257
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Its not bad faith to point out the CotV plan is pretty much the same as several plans made by mutant villains over the years. Nobody is saying the CotV are the good guys here. Problem is that groups like them are a dime a dozen in Marvel, and they haven't done anything to feel like that much bigger a threat than any of those other groups. Yes, one of them inflitrated the X mansion in their debut. That happened all the time. And when other heroes encounter these similar groups, they don't immediately default to murdering them all. And that its Laura, who's backstory is very similar to the kind of thing the CotV are put through, is slaughtering them with no comment, just rubs salt in the wound.
    Yes many mutants villains had plans to wipe out humans, to let the earth be inherited by Mutants. now all these villains can live on Krakoa without problems. We alredy saw these villains scheming and betraying the mutants

  3. #258
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    But the environment might have killed the teleporter on the spot. Those 3 are resistant to pretty much anything.
    The teleporters in S.W.⨂.R.D. have environment suits.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  4. #259
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Ok, here's my rebuttal does the machine say this vocally and they hear it? Or is Synch saying Oh Shit because of what they see before them? If its the later than it is worse because in this issue they should be on full alert as soon as they cross over, but they aren't and they shouldn't have Synch say they can get by undetected because they were detected then.

    Mother Mold was created to build Master Molds, NIMROD was going to be the next step down line, maybe months maybe years we don't know...and it still happened anyway because they didn't stop the it creation that mission was a failure, if anything their attack sped it up, they gave that woman the motivation to build him much sooner. And so far the only people who know this are Xavier, Lensherr, Raven and Moira, my biggest issue there wasn't the attack itself but rather they left the station and people alive to make this happen. Send in Sabertooth, Domino, Cable, Daken, Kwannon anyone who doesn't have a moral issue to destroying that place not Summers and Grey and Wagner who won't cross the line and to do what needs to be done to stop NIMROD from coming to fruition.
    The city only detect them when they enter the elevator. Why woud the city let them use the elevator if they detect the enemies? makes no sense

    It seems like a situation that it will happen anyway, humans gonna build te Nimrod. In this case the guy suicided bombed himself to stop the x-men and his wife really took it personlly, she want revenge.
    Seems like killing every scientist could have worked better

  5. #260
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    The teleporters in S.W.⨂.R.D. have environment suits.
    It is true that the S.W.O.R.D. team went to way harsher environments in their first issue alone. And obviously, such an amazing teleportation squad could easily have blipped into the Orchis space station and pulled all four conveniently-unguarded release catches simultaneously during House Of X.

    Comic books!
    Last edited by Frobisher; 02-26-2021 at 09:30 AM.

  6. #261
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    It is true that the S.W.O.R.D. team went to way harsher environments in their first issue alone. And obviously, such an amazing teleportation squad could easily have blipped into the Orchis space station and pulled all four conveniently unguarded release catches simultaneously during House Of X.

    Comic books!
    Sword still didn't existed back there

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Well that's not what happened, either. They were detected at the start, in X-Men 5, it had nothing to do with the elevator





    The entire reason the mission on ORCHIS happened is because the Mother Mold is constructed to build Nimrods. That's the information Moira learned in life 9.

    In that case, you say "there should be consequences" to the fact the mutants attacked the people who were planning to kill all of them?



    They didn't simply infiltrate the mansion. They arrived there to eradicate mutantkind after M-Day



    So you say in the situation presented in this issue, where Darwin, Laura and Synch had to attack or be killed, they simply should've let themselves be killed?

    First of all X-Men 18 is just rehashing events of X-Men 5, it is disingenuous to say the vault was alerted as soon as they entered as per book 5 , because in book 5 , Sarefina entered the vault and was scanned waay before the trio did, yet in book 18, she is scanned after they enter or in that same moment which is at odds with book 5, her vault siblings are also awakened before the trio enter the vault in book 5 yet book 18 shows them awakened after.That is editorial inconsistency so I am just pointing it out to show that nailing how soon the vault became aware of the breach depends on what book you take as correct,and with this discrepancy it's hard either way.

    As to your point of infiltration, the CoV goal was to kill Sabertooth, he was the main target, and any Xman cought between them and the target.Their goal was never some all out attack against all the Xmen at least initially until they lost the element of surprise when they changed tactic.

    When Perro and Sarefina were close to the mansion, Perro was excited to fight sentinels and she said 'The fight is not for today Perro.Safer to work through our proxies' (in reference to Northstar and Aurora who she juiced up to kill Creed as the primary target though she wanted the twins to kill some X-Men too)

    She then further says in response to Perro chastising her upon the twins' failure 'Tell Sangre ,this was his plan to hide our full power until it was too late for them to stop us,but right now our proxies have let us down.I'm going in'

    To which Perro says 'What? Serafina you exceed the brief!'

    And she answers 'The Brief is to deal with Sabertooth and anyone he may have spoken to'

    So it was an assassination mission to be done by proxy, and when she went in, she cloaked herself for a while..clearly the CoV had more extreme mission parameters than the X-Men had for the vault no doubt and I am not not trying to say X-Men couldn't defend themselves if it came to confrontation. However their fact finding was meant to be a recon mission, stealth was paramount, what is weird is the CoV from the outset tried stealth and misdirection. The X-Men didn't yet they were better served doing exactly that and with the stakes involved for the trio it is both inexplicable and inexcusable.. bottom line the writing of this story could have been way better.I mean with so many abilities Darwin could have adapted camouflage of some sort, or Synch could borrow his power and shapeshift into any child he saw walking around. There were many creative ways to show case Synch's and Darwin's infiltration abilities.The only one who couldn't easily blend into the surroundings was Laura so she should have maybe been the one identified first as an intruder. There was a better way to build up to this confrontation than what we were given on apparently day 1

  8. #263
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    You're only talking about the first half of the Supernovas arc. The CotV only tried to kill Creed to keep their existence a secret, and after that becomes pointless since everyone already knew about them, they come back to try to bomb the mansion. It's in the scene from the scan I posted before


  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    You're only talking about the first half of the Supernovas arc. The CotV only tried to kill Creed to keep their existence a secret, and after that becomes pointless since everyone already knew about them, they come back to bomb the mansion. It's in the scan I posted before

    Yes I did say they changed tactic when their existence was revealed by him and Sarefina being seen by Wolverine, but my point is they tried stealth and misdirection and they were under no threat at all, at that point except losing their anonymity.Yet here we have X-Men having their success depend on getting out alive because as Xavier said 'Cerebro cannot penetrate the vault' so all their 'facts' are contingent on getting out in one piece and they just throw that to the wind.Bewildering
    Last edited by Rev9; 02-26-2021 at 11:16 AM.

  10. #265
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    To make things clear, I was only answering to pkingdom's post that implied that the CotV are not a big threat because they "only infiltrated" the mansion, when that wasn't the case

    Part of the reason they avoided initial confrontation also was because they were woken up out of time due to M-day, but their motto was always to eliminate other competitors in order to be superior race
    Last edited by nandes; 02-26-2021 at 11:22 AM.

  11. #266
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    The X-Men only got involved in Supernovas because people thought they were the ones doing the CotV's crimes.
    "Cable was right!"

  12. #267
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Sword still didn't existed back there
    Well, it did, it just didn't have anything to do with mutants.

    Plus, they only knew exactly what they had to do once they got there.

  13. #268
    Incredible Member Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Well, it did, it just didn't have anything to do with mutants.
    When you consider it's origins S.W.O.R.D has always been tied to mutants. Abigail Brand and S.W.O.R.D first turned up in Astonishing, which I'm sure you know.
    Pull List: X-Men - X-Men: Legends - X-Force - X-Factor - S.W.O.R.D - New Mutants - Marauders - Hellions - Excalibur - Demon Days - Children of the Atom - Wolverine - Wolverine: Black White & Blood - Deadpool - Cable

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Can we stop calling Jen "Hulk?"

  14. #269
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Well, it did, it just didn't have anything to do with mutants.

    Plus, they only knew exactly what they had to do once they got there.
    Usualyly people go to missions knowing what they will do there

  15. #270
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Usualyly people go to missions knowing what they will do there
    I meant is knowing exactly what they had to do to get Nimrod offline. They knew they had to destroy him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Rödney View Post
    When you consider it's origins S.W.O.R.D has always been tied to mutants. Abigail Brand and S.W.O.R.D first turned up in Astonishing, which I'm sure you know.
    Oh, I know. I meant it wasn't really that tied to Krakoa- now they're very heavily linked.

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