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  1. #211
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    How will they collect information if not stealth?
    There’s no one left to stop them.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  2. #212
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Thereís no one left to stop them.
    The city Exploded and there is new Cotv being prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Orchis is a man-made organization made up of a bunch of bigoted humans hell bent on solving the "mutant problem".
    They were building a murder machine that could be dangerous even to humans. The mission was destroy it

  3. #213
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    The city Exploded and there is new Cotv being prepared
    Exactly, no one left to stop them. The city can’t just insta cook new CoV, that takes time and thanks to explodey girl now the A.I. is damaged so there is no one left to stop the X-Men from downloading whatever info they want.



    They were building a murder machine that could be dangerous even to humans. The mission was destroy it
    So was the City. They literally say that they aren’t strong enough yet to take over the world.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  4. #214
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Exactly, no one left to stop them. The city canít just insta cook new CoV, that takes time and thanks to explodey girl now the A.I. is damaged so there is no one left to stop the X-Men from downloading whatever info they want.
    If everything is destroyed there is nothing to collect information




    So was the City. They literally say that they arenít strong enough yet to take over the world.
    The kids are programmed, murder them is cruel

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    If everything is destroyed there is nothing to collect information






    The kids are programmed, murder them is cruel
    They're not robots. They can choose not to commit genocide and world domination lol

    Secondly the X-men were acting in self defense. It was kill or be killed.

  6. #216
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    They're not robots. They can choose not to commit genocide and world domination lol

    Secondly the X-men were acting in self defense. It was kill or be killed.
    Cotv are programmed they can't choose

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Cotv are programmed they can't choose
    So you're saying they're basically biological sentinels bent on genocide. Why is it cruel to eliminate them again?

  8. #218
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    If everything is destroyed there is nothing to collect information
    Not everything is destroyed. Thereís gonna be an active terminal somewhere that the team can log into, thatís how these stories usually play out. Or you could be right and the mission is just a complete failure and a colossal waste of time for all parties involved.






    The kids are programmed, murder them is cruel
    Programmed to kill everyone and everything. Not only was negotiating not an option, the children were going to kill the X-Men. If you want to argue the ethics of the X-Men infiltrating the childrenís home thatís one thing but youíre giving the children a free pass from any responsibility for their actions, you should be upset at the city for programming them, not the X-Men for defending themselves.

    I get it, you really want the X-Men to be the bad guys. You do you, enjoy the books how you want but I wonít debate in circles like this anymore. Iíve pointed out what I think the flaws in your logic are. If you want to respond with something new and not repeat yourself letís talk.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  9. #219
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    So you're saying they're basically biological sentinels bent on genocide. Why is it cruel to eliminate them again?
    Because they can't choose. X-men redeem a lot of mass murders, but Cotv are competitors so x-men just kill them? That is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Not everything is destroyed. Thereís gonna be an active terminal somewhere that the team can log into, thatís how these stories usually play out. Or you could be right and the mission is just a complete failure and a colossal waste of time for all parties involved.
    it is a huge explosion, the city is setient enough to also erase and corrupt any file. This would be too easy if all data is intact
    Last edited by Rang10; 02-25-2021 at 07:03 PM.

  10. #220
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I donít understand why the mission had to be stealth at all I guess. They wanted to go in quiet but we knew 13 issues ago that was not going to happen. I donít see why the next issue canít be about fact finding either. Itís also a bit unfair to compare this to Careyís story as his is complete and Hickmanís isnít.

    We know in story that the City, despite its size, is very sparsely populated, Hickman made a point of that. The X-Men are found out immediately and proceeded to take out the CoV easily just like the City predicted based on the CoV current ďlevels.Ē Based on Careyís run the X-Men just took out the main fighting force of the CoV minus a couple. I will admit that itís been a long time since I read Careyís run so if there is a major player still unaccounted for that could be an issue later. What is the City supposed to do now that it doesnít have any defense mechanisms? Whatís left to stop the X-Men from getting the information they came for? Iím sure it wonít be a cake walk moving forward but I doubt they come up empty handed, even if they do we donít know if thatís part of the larger picture.

    Iíll be honest I was expecting some recon work to be done this issue also but it didnít happen. That doesnít mean I think the issue is bad it just wasnít exactly what I expected which can be either good, bad or neutral. Iím not trying to argue that the team shouldnít have tried to be stealthy but I would argue that to expect that scenario after the end of issue 5 seems to me a bit unrealistic. I felt like we knew right away that team was walking into a fight for their lives.
    You'd think a city as "sparsely populated" as they state would have had plenty of places to hide and, you know, not be seen. Think of how much time it can take a concerted manhunt IRL to find a fugitive. And that's with multiple agencies and millions of eyes.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  11. #221
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    They should've tried to reason with the Mother Mold first, see!
    Lol, yeah I know right!

  12. #222
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Almost every superhero fight is someone trying to kill the hero, so 'they're trying to kill them!' feels like a hollow excuse to murder them all. And there are plenty of mutants with teleportation and phasing powers, so limiting your options to sending a team through the front door is poor planning from the start.

    Comparing this to the Mother Mold is kind of an apples to oranges thing. One is a superweapon, where the location itself IS the weapon. Its a Death Star type of situation where the scale and size of the weapon means you can't go the small route, at least not at short notice. Here its kind of a confusing mess. Like, if the CotV are really that big of a threat, why not just assault the city outright? Don't tell me they don't have the firepower to just lay waste to it. And this was not a team of spies they sent it.

  13. #223
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Anyone that thought the COTV weren't going to get wiped off the map or is eben a little bit surprised because of it hasn't really been paying attention to Hickman's run.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  14. #224
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Almost every superhero fight is someone trying to kill the hero, so 'they're trying to kill them!' feels like a hollow excuse to murder them all. And there are plenty of mutants with teleportation and phasing powers, so limiting your options to sending a team through the front door is poor planning from the start.

    Comparing this to the Mother Mold is kind of an apples to oranges thing. One is a superweapon, where the location itself IS the weapon. Its a Death Star type of situation where the scale and size of the weapon means you can't go the small route, at least not at short notice. Here its kind of a confusing mess. Like, if the CotV are really that big of a threat, why not just assault the city outright? Don't tell me they don't have the firepower to just lay waste to it. And this was not a team of spies they sent it.
    let's kill people before they commit crimes.

    If the mission ws to kill and not stealth, the should had choose much more brute force to destroy all city.

    If they can be taken down so easily, they aren't a threat

  15. #225
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    CotV are like the clones executing Order 66 except instead of having a chip inserted in their brain (that can be removed), they have been engineered into organic nimrods with their core mission to eradicate both mutants and humans.

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