Spider-Man 3: No Way Home

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You can play her at least differently than Selina and in terms of the dynamic with Spider-Man but for an "all ages" brand a sexy cat burglar in a skintight leather outfit might be too much.

True. Felicia Hardy is one character that absolutely doesn't work in a teenage high school setting. Ultimate Felicia Hardy in Bendis' run shows the difficulties they had with making her work with Ultimate Peter as a foil.

There's also another reason in that Felicia as a character is maybe too low-stakes for a movie, i.e. she doesn't need special effects beyond being good at parkour, and Spider-Man movies have banked heavily on spectacle with super-powered and super-teched bad guys over street level crime and gangsters. It'll also be a bit hard to explain why Black Cat is a match for Spider-Man given his superpowers...like in the PS4 DLC the entire sequence where Felicia leads Spider-Man on a chase and stays a step ahead and so on felt unbelievable to me since Spider-Man's superpowers meant that he'd be better at traversal than "good at Parkour".

My feeling is that the best way to work Felicia is maybe adapt Superior Foes of Spider-Man for Netflix or Amazon Prime or whoever and instead of Boomerang, center it around Felicia and have the entire heist plot and manipulation and stuff given to her, that would be one way of making it work.

I am not a fan of the scientist Felicia thing they apparently did in TASM-2 with Sarah Gadon (a very good actress admittedly).

[Frontier]

True. Felicia Hardy is one character that absolutely doesn't work in a teenage high school setting. Ultimate Felicia Hardy in Bendis' run shows the difficulties they had with making her work with Ultimate Peter as a foil.

There's also another reason in that Felicia as a character is maybe too low-stakes for a movie, i.e. she doesn't need special effects beyond being good at parkour, and Spider-Man movies have banked heavily on spectacle with super-powered and super-teched bad guys over street level crime and gangsters. It'll also be a bit hard to explain why Black Cat is a match for Spider-Man given his superpowers...like in the PS4 DLC the entire sequence where Felicia leads Spider-Man on a chase and stays a step ahead and so on felt unbelievable to me since Spider-Man's superpowers meant that he'd be better at traversal than "good at Parkour".

My feeling is that the best way to work Felicia is maybe adapt Superior Foes of Spider-Man for Netflix or Amazon Prime or whoever and instead of Boomerang, center it around Felicia and have the entire heist plot and manipulation and stuff given to her, that would be one way of making it work.

I am not a fan of the scientist Felicia thing they apparently did in TASM-2 with Sarah Gadon (a very good actress admittedly).

Or you just work in her bad luck powers. I don't think those have actually been in any adaption yet aside from the Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Or you just work in her bad luck powers. I don't think those have actually been in any adaption yet aside from the Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon.

Bad luck powers never made sense, (no surprise since Wolfman borrowed it from a Tex Avery Cartoon) and Stern and later Mantlo got rid of it pretty quick, and helped make Felicia the character she ultimately became.

But maybe some form of that might work as an explanation, though again it'll probably be too similar to Tim Burton's Batman Returns which ran with the whole "cats have nine lives" as an explanation for Selina being Catwoman (partially borrowed from the film Cat People).

I mean does the expression that black cats are a sign of bad luck still hold value in the age of the internet cat video?

[Frontier]

Bad luck powers never made sense, (no surprise since Wolfman borrowed it from a Tex Avery Cartoon) and Stern and later Mantlo got rid of it pretty quick, and helped make Felicia the character she ultimately became.

But maybe some form of that might work as an explanation, though again it'll probably be too similar to Tim Burton's Batman Returns which ran with the whole "cats have nine lives" as an explanation for Selina being Catwoman (partially borrowed from the film Cat People).

I mean does the expression that black cats are a sign of bad luck still hold value in the age of the internet cat video?

I think black cats being bad luck is pretty ubiquitous. I always assumed it had something to do with some kind of quasi-probability manipulation.

Modern Felicia has used it a lot, especially in her solo.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I too don't buy that Felicia can keep up with Spider-Man, even in the PS4 game where he was chasing her and somehow couldn't catch up.

I buy Catwoman keeping up with Batman and managing to lay a punch on him for obvious reasons. Spider-Man's strength and speed though is enhanced beyond that of Captain America, who is a super-soldier. Not to mention spider-sense. Spider-Man almost always feels nerfed to me when he's fighting the Black Cat.

I mean, Daredevil of all people can't take on Spider-Man in a fight according to Zdarksy, and Daredevil is a better martial artist than Felicia, can take on more pain than Felicia, and has better senses than Spidey.

Felicia also doesn't have years of experience on Spider-Man like Black Widow does. If any normal human can consistently take on Spider-Man, it would be someone like that, right? Someone who's been around for a while and knows more about fighting than Peter can learn by his late 20's. Except that Spider-Man and Black Cat (other than in Ultimate) are about the same age and started around the same time.

I'm guessing the idea is that Peter is seduced by her and gets distracted, but that doesn't sound like Peter to me. That sounds more like Flash Thompson or even Harry.

Felicia having bad luck powers would make it more believable.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I too don't buy that Felicia can keep up with Spider-Man, even in the PS4 game where he was chasing her and somehow couldn't catch up.

The only way that worked was if PS4 Felicia had the proportionate strength, speed, and agility of a Cat, lol.

I buy Catwoman keeping up with Batman and managing to lay a punch on him for obvious reasons.

Yeah, Batman is at the end of the day a human (though obviously exaggerated by writers here and there) so it makes sense between them. Also Batman is huge and bulky whereas Catwoman is smaller and has greater agility so it makes sense, but it doesn't between Spider-Man and Black Cat because they are mostly on the relative same weight class and Spider-Man's powers give him extra agility.

I mean, Daredevil of all people can't take on Spider-Man in a fight according to Zdarksy, and Daredevil is a better martial artist than Felicia, can take on more pain than Felicia, and has better senses than Spidey.

Absolutely. I mean Spider-Man has even decked Wolverine through unbreakable glass off Stark Tower and fought Juggernaut and so on.

I'm guessing the idea is that Peter is seduced by her and gets distracted, but that doesn't sound like Peter to me.

Felicia Hardy made her debut in Marv Wolfman's run and Wolfman and writers before him had severely nerfed Peter's super-strength. So it's a bit of a grandfather clause why Felicia despite having no powers is Spider-Man's ally or semi-equal villain who can keep up. Wolfman's run had this Kingpin issue where he nearly defeats and beats up Spider-Man and Kingpin as a character for a while never made any sense as a physical threat to Spider-Man (and it's great that JMS ended that charade). One reason why Roger Stern in his run brought in non-Spider-Man bad guys was that he felt that Spider-Man's strength and a sense of scale had been missing since Ditko left and he needed to bring it back by pitting him against heavyweights.

The bad luck powers probably does work but even then it kind of begs the question why Felicia goes through the cat burglary thing? Wouldn't it be easier to I dunno walk around banks and places and affect probability that result in risk-free robbery or rube-goldberg mishaps creating distractions that allow her to steal stuff? That's how Gladstone Gander rolls after all.

[John Venus]

I remember the 90's show making her one of Peter's classmates then giving her a version of the super soldier serum. I also like how Spectacular made her closer in age to Parker. I think Felicia can work on screen if you make her as different from Catwoman as possible. People don't take well to Catwoman having super powers but are okay with it for Felicia. Selina's from a poor background, Felicia could be from either a well off upper middle class or outright wealthy family. Just push her in the opposite direction of Catwoman as much as possible.

Felicia could be a classmate of Peter Parker or an intern at the Daily Bugle who holds a grudge against the Kingpin for imprisoning and killing her father so she dons the mantle of the Black Cat to take away what's important to him but no amount of training can make up for a lack of powers so she dopes on MGH (Mutant Growth Hormone) which allows her to match with Spider-Man in a battle. Even so I can't see her as the main villain of the movie. It would have to be either the Kingpin or someone else with Felicia as the antagonist turned ally turned antagonist turned ally again.

[Agent Z]

Black Cat is always hard to do in a Spider-Man movie because of her similarities to Catwoman. The general public know Catwoman too well, she's had so many continuous appearances in live-action Batman media that it's hard to establish Felicia as different, especially since the next Batman movie coming out in 2022 has Selina as well (played amusingly by Zoe Kravitz, voice of Mary Jane in ITSV).

The general public doesn't care that much about similarities.

Even then, the Loki show has human opponents giving him trouble even though he is supposed to be stronger than normal people so the MCU isn't averse to that. It's not like Spider-Man is Superman or even Jet Li's character from The One.

[Agent Z]

The only way that worked was if PS4 Felicia had the proportionate strength, speed, and agility of a Cat, lol.



Yeah, Batman is at the end of the day a human (though obviously exaggerated by writers here and there) so it makes sense between them. Also Batman is huge and bulky whereas Catwoman is smaller and has greater agility so it makes sense, but it doesn't between Spider-Man and Black Cat because they are mostly on the relative same weight class and Spider-Man's powers give him extra agility.



Absolutely. I mean Spider-Man has even decked Wolverine through unbreakable glass off Stark Tower and fought Juggernaut and so on.



Felicia Hardy made her debut in Marv Wolfman's run and Wolfman and writers before him had severely nerfed Peter's super-strength. So it's a bit of a grandfather clause why Felicia despite having no powers is Spider-Man's ally or semi-equal villain who can keep up. Wolfman's run had this Kingpin issue where he nearly defeats and beats up Spider-Man and Kingpin as a character for a while never made any sense as a physical threat to Spider-Man (and it's great that JMS ended that charade). One reason why Roger Stern in his run brought in non-Spider-Man bad guys was that he felt that Spider-Man's strength and a sense of scale had been missing since Ditko left and he needed to bring it back by pitting him against heavyweights.

The bad luck powers probably does work but even then it kind of begs the question why Felicia goes through the cat burglary thing? Wouldn't it be easier to I dunno walk around banks and places and affect probability that result in risk-free robbery or rube-goldberg mishaps creating distractions that allow her to steal stuff? That's how Gladstone Gander rolls after all.

If the bad luck powers are that much of a hang up, just give her the catlike strength, speed and agility she had for a while.

[Agent Z]

True. Felicia Hardy is one character that absolutely doesn't work in a teenage high school setting. Ultimate Felicia Hardy in Bendis' run shows the difficulties they had with making her work with Ultimate Peter as a foil.

She wasn't a teenager in that setting so I'm not seeing how she is proof she doesn't work in a high school setting.

There's also another reason in that Felicia as a character is maybe too low-stakes for a movie, i.e. she doesn't need special effects beyond being good at parkour, and Spider-Man movies have banked heavily on spectacle with super-powered and super-teched bad guys over street level crime and gangsters.

Which means she brings something new to the table while costing less money.

I am not a fan of the scientist Felicia thing they apparently did in TASM-2 with Sarah Gadon (a very good actress admittedly).

Felicia wasn't a scientist in ASM 2 and she was played by Felicity Jones not Sarah Gadon. Gadon played a different character named Kari.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Felicia wasn't a scientist in ASM 2 and she was played by Felicity Jones not Sarah Gadon. Gadon played a different character named Kari.

Oh, thanks for the correction.

I remember the 90's show making her one of Peter's classmates then giving her a version of the super soldier serum. I also like how Spectacular made her closer in age to Parker. I think Felicia can work on screen if you make her as different from Catwoman as possible. People don't take well to Catwoman having super powers but are okay with it for Felicia. Selina's from a poor background, Felicia could be from either a well off upper middle class or outright wealthy family. Just push her in the opposite direction of Catwoman as much as possible.

I am sure Black Cat will eventually show up in a Spider-Man movie or maybe a spinoff or something.

I mean Sony are obsessed with spinoffs and a Black Cat spinoff makes more sense than "Jackpot" or even "Morbius". And of course, Catwoman has never had a successful solo movie so you can maybe claim that .

[fin5]

I saw on some comic site that Strange and supreme Strange from What if could be a diffrent strange from no way home.
One in Infinity war strange gave the time stone to Thanos because he thought that will help Tony
In No Way home the tralier. Strange said to petter call me by my name so Peter called him Steven but Strange said i will take it but Hesetated at first also wong told him not to do the spall but he did it anyway it got out of hand and then made the mutiverse apere.Im gussing it might be the other strange from what if.And with the shang cii with the post cretets and the Upcoming Docter Strange movie it makes sence.I heard the What if Strange ties into Docter strange 2.I might be wrong but it does some to fit

[John Venus]

It's definitely 'our' Dr Strange or it could be the Dr Strange from the Raimi-verse based on that one-liner from J Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man 2.

I think the spell gets interrupted somehow by an outside influence. Maybe with the Multiverse being formed at the end of Loki, someone like Shuma Gorath, Dormammu or an evil Dr Strange tries to interfere during the spell. Perhaps the spell would have gone off without a hitch if someone didn't interfere. Maybe Strange is influenced by dark magic. Dormammu would be the easiest to weave in since Cumberbatch played him in the first Dr Strange movie. A Dormammu influenced Strange is what leads to the Spider-Man vs Dr Strange fight we see in the trailer.


I have another theory that's closer to the world established in Spider-Man movies; Scorpion, after learning Peter's identity and getting armed by Chitauri tech from the Tinkerer and Vulture attacks Peter at Strange's mansion. That could be the strange shadow we see Peter confronting during the S6 montage at the end of the first trailer. Scorpion attacks Peter during the spell casting, Peter does something and the spell goes wrong resulting in the Multiverse breaking. Hence why Strange sounded mad in the trailer when he said 'the problem is you, trying to live two different lives!'.

I also think earlier on in the movie, either May, Ned or MJ or Happy gets hurt by one of Spider-Man's villains and this is why Strange agrees to the spell. Initially he will turn Peter down but one of the latters loved ones getting hurt will trigger his doctor's guilt and that makes him execute the spell anyway. This is why he tells Peter 'be careful what you wish for, Peter'.

Thus, the MCU/Sony S6 would be: Dr Octopus, Green Goblin, Electro, Sandman, Mysterio and Scorpion. Three from McGuire's side, one from Garfield and two from Holland's movies.

[Reilly]

Thus, the MCU/Sony S6 would be: Dr Octopus, Green Goblin, Electro, Sandman, Mysterio and Scorpion. Three from McGuire's side, one from Garfield and two from Holland's movies.

Octopus and Sandman aren't really "bad guys" at the end of their movies. In the trailer, Sandman looks like he is protecting Spider-Man from Electro. Doc Ock should be unexpected ally too... But his arms are glowing red, which means they are in control... Hmm, it could be just trailer magic to mess with us.
And there's the Lizard too.
Sinister Six that I'd like to see: Green Goblin, (evil) Dr Octopus, Electro, Lizard, Mysterio, Scorpion. Two from Tobey's side, two from Garfield and two from Holland's movies. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be...

[Frontier]

Wouldn't we have heard by now if any of Holland's villains were coming back for this?