Spider-Man 3: No Way Home

[Kaitou D. Kid]

If Holland isn't coming back after this, it would be interesting to see how Sony/Disney respond to that. There hasn't been a major MCU recast since Hulk and War Machine got recast way back at the beginning of Phase 1. I also doubt they'll jump to Miles Morales with how much of Miles is already in Holland's take.

[Lukmendes]

If Holland isn't coming back after this, it would be interesting to see how Sony/Disney respond to that. There hasn't been a major MCU recast since Hulk and War Machine got recast way back at the beginning of Phase 1. I also doubt they'll jump to Miles Morales with how much of Miles is already in Holland's take.

If Miles is happening I doubt it's anytime soon, because we're getting that supposedly MCU canon cartoon about Peter's first year in high school, and having that, then announcing the next Spider-Man is gonna be Miles, would be a questionable decision.

[PizzaTime2099]

If Holland isn't coming back after this, it would be interesting to see how Sony/Disney respond to that. There hasn't been a major MCU recast since Hulk and War Machine got recast way back at the beginning of Phase 1. I also doubt they'll jump to Miles Morales with how much of Miles is already in Holland's take.

I think Sony would rather reboot by themselves than continue in the MCU with any iteration of Spider-Man.

[Webhead]

What are you even saying? That MCU writes the jokes while thinking on how it can sound in other languages? Because that would be a hilariously dumb decision.

Not at all. I simply rejected Jack's idea that the Latin root for eight was too obscure to be relevant to a pun, by pointing out that, while a mild factor to English, doesn't mean it's irrevelant worldwide.

Even if it's still just a cheap lampshade hanging, "comics huh?!" kinda thing.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I didn't think it was a great joke

Glad we agree on this.

As a Spanish speaker it's pretty obvious, and they market this stuff for international audiences too.

People who know the language roots and so on will not find it funny (since again Otto and Octavius have currency as common names in those nations despite everyone knowing it means Eight and so on, it's not weird there) and people who don't know will be confused about what's funny (as that trailer reaction at the LA event clearly showed, and given it's LA that would include a contingent of Spanish speakers).

So it's a risible idea of humor writing by all empirical accounts and the fact that the people who cut this trailer thought this was funny and a big thigh-slapper and so on, reveals their mentality. Relying on a punchline on insider nerd trivia (i.e. Otto and Octavius and so on) is Zack Snyder logic, i.e. Batman and Superman being kids of Martha moms. That was played for drama and this was meant for laugh-out-loud but both are bizarre reactions to basically a nerdy bit of "huh...that's neat I guess" trivia, and obviously developed by people disengaged and disconnected from the real world.

Hell, in Raimi's Spider-Man 2, JJ makes a similar joke, but JJ is a known ******* so that works for him, having everyone laughing at Otto's face like that, urgh...

Spider-Man 2 presents Otto as a warm mentor figure who suffers a tragedy and loses his wife and suffers an accident and goes insane. You don't suddenly make a joke about his name and intend that straight with that kind of setup.

Also funny how they didn't react to "Scooby-Doo this crap" either lol.

Is Scooby Doo even a pop culture reference kids would know at this point? Do reruns of it get airtime significantly?

Hah, so you do write stuff in TV tropes, reminds me that I did get the feeling when reading a few of the tropes in Ditko's ASM article that it sounded like your writing style.

I created that stuff. I contributed a lot to Spider-Man's tvtropes page. I don't do anymore because that isn't ultimately a very fun place but it did help me process and collate the continuity a bit, and uploading the quotes and stuff there allowed me to riff on it later.

If Holland isn't coming back after this, it would be interesting to see how Sony/Disney respond to that. There hasn't been a major MCU recast since Hulk and War Machine got recast way back at the beginning of Phase 1. I also doubt they'll jump to Miles Morales with how much of Miles is already in Holland's take.

It depends I guess on how No Way Home ends. Anyway, I always had a guess that NWH is the last Holland Spider-Man film or near the end.

People thought that Spider-Man would be around and so on, but the Shared Universe without Iron Man, Thor, Captain America isn't the one in which Holland originally appeared in. They have a bunch of new characters they want to get up there, they need to get Fantastic Four to work and bring in the X-Men, whatever it is that's happening with Black Panther Post-Boseman, and that's basically five years worth of work, at minimum. Meanwhile they'll do what, an Avengers story with Holland Spidey, Paul Rudd Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Hulk, War Machine, Captain America II? That's not something that would have a great deal of novelty for the audience. Without novelty, without expansion, without clickbait, the MCU dies.

[TheCape]

Not sure about Spencer when it comes to humor, what I saw of Superior Foes' humor was exactly what made me decide to not read it.

He is really good when it comes to character moments though, when they talk about their motivations and whatnot, they always feels sincere, even more so if you know the character's story, and that's good writing.

Then again, thinking of it, in ASM, he really did get JJ's voice and he was amusing most times, so I guess whatever I saw in Superior Foes, might've been his weaker stuff.

There is a person whose i do trust to a point and he basically said that he didn't found Superior Foes that funny and kind of meh in that department, but that is still a very well written and paced (i still don't believe that part considering Spencer track record lol) and that is probably the best Gangward story of the last few year and a great story for B-List and D-List characthers. Still, i do found some of Spencer humor funny, like Boomerang calling his fans "Boomers" ..

Also that Otto Octavius joke would have worked better if they said "were you born in August 8th of 1978" or maybe "are you sure that you aren't also named Irony too?. Then again i was the guy who made the joke of "Lizzard" and "The Lizzy" for Liz Allen and i'm proud of it, so maybe me sense of humor is ****

[Frontier]

Is Scooby Doo even a pop culture reference kids would know at this point? Do reruns of it get airtime significantly?

Cartoon Network had a whole Scoobtober event where they reran Scooby-Doo shows and movies throughout October.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Cartoon Network had a whole Scoobtober event where they reran Scooby-Doo shows and movies throughout October.

Ah, thanks.

Not that I think Scooby Doo is some great cultural treasure that I am glad still exists or anything, lol. Those were fairly mediocre cartoons. It's just that there hasn't been something new to come and update that archetype of junior mysterysolvers whereas Flintstones and Jetsons have been replaced by The Simpsons, Futurama, Rick and Morty.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I think Sony would rather reboot by themselves than continue in the MCU with any iteration of Spider-Man.

My feeling is that Spider-Man won't be leaving the MCU anytime soon.

1. Venom got transported into the MCU at the end of Let There Be Carnage. I doubt that would have happened with Spidey leaving the MCU.

2. Sony just negotiated to have all the Sony Spider-Man films on Disney+, and Disney is opening a new Spider-Man ride at Disney World based on Holland's Spider-Man. Those two things imply some sort of long-term partnership.

3. Feige recently said he isn't anticipating to put fans through the Sony/Marvel split up again. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I don't think he would've said that had the deal still been as fragile.

4. It would be bad PR for Sony to pull Spider-Man out of the MCU, as they learned the first time. It's part of why they came back to Disney.

5. The idea that Disney would help out Sony set up their Sony-Verse and then part ways just never made any sense.

It depends I guess on how No Way Home ends. Anyway, I always had a guess that NWH is the last Holland Spider-Man film or near the end.

People thought that Spider-Man would be around and so on, but the Shared Universe without Iron Man, Thor, Captain America isn't the one in which Holland originally appeared in. They have a bunch of new characters they want to get up there, they need to get Fantastic Four to work and bring in the X-Men, whatever it is that's happening with Black Panther Post-Boseman, and that's basically five years worth of work, at minimum. Meanwhile they'll do what, an Avengers story with Holland Spidey, Paul Rudd Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Hulk, War Machine, Captain America II? That's not something that would have a great deal of novelty for the audience. Without novelty, without expansion, without clickbait, the MCU dies.

This is Spider-Man, though. As long as Sony allows it, I'm sure Marvel/Disney will want him, with or without Holland. We now know that Feige was the one who approached Sony to have Spider-Man in the MCU. As far as we know, they only did that with Spider-Man and not with the X-Men or FF.

[PizzaTime2099]

Cartoon Network had a whole Scoobtober event where they reran Scooby-Doo shows and movies throughout October.

More than just reruns, there's only been 2 years since 2002 where there wasn't new episodes of a Scooby Doo show coming out on television (not to mention the 36 made for tv movies that have come out since 1998). There was even a movie that came out last year, but we don't have to talk about that...

The joke isn't funny due to more than just irrelevancy, with a poor delivery by Cumberbatch to boot. I wish all trailers would cool it with the jokes in general, even when they are funny, it loses it's luster when you've heard them a million times. When I was at the theater for Eternals, you could tell people were forcing out a chuckle for the bit where Icarus breaks the table because everyone's already seen it.

[Frontier]

Ah, thanks.

Not that I think Scooby Doo is some great cultural treasure that I am glad still exists or anything, lol. Those were fairly mediocre cartoons. It's just that there hasn't been something new to come and update that archetype of junior mysterysolvers whereas Flintstones and Jetsons have been replaced by The Simpsons, Futurama, Rick and Morty.

You're talking to a guy who has been a Scooby-Doo fan for decades .

More than just reruns, there's only been 2 years since 2002 where there wasn't new episodes of a Scooby Doo show coming out on television (not to mention the 36 made for tv movies that have come out since 1998). There was even a movie that came out last year, but we don't have to talk about that...

The joke isn't funny due to more than just irrelevancy, with a poor delivery by Cumberbatch to boot. I wish all trailers would cool it with the jokes in general, even when they are funny, it loses it's luster when you've heard them a million times. When I was at the theater for Eternals, you could tell people were forcing out a chuckle for the bit where Icarus breaks the table because everyone's already seen it.

People mentioned how the MCU is still in the Joss Whedon school of humor and I just think about the "Scoobies" on Buffy.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You're talking to a guy who has been a Scooby-Doo fan for decades .

Yikes, friendly fire. I grew up watching Scooby Doo Where Are you and the Scooby doo team up as a kid. I liked it at the time.

People mentioned how the MCU is still in the Joss Whedon school of humor and I just think about the "Scoobies" on Buffy.

Yeah, I suppose Buffy is the major update on Scooby but also because it had a supernatural component it's kind of away from what defined Scooby to start with.

[Mister Mets]

They're not really "new" villains, though. They're villains from the old Spider-Man films. Which, you know, the first trailer showed. We already knew Spider-Man and Strange were going to be in conflict. We also saw Peter's friends in Strange's house from promotional materials.

The first and second trailer can basically be summed up as "the villains from the old movies return, and Peter screws up."

The specific villains matter.

Jamie Foxx is an Oscar winner. Willem Dafoe has had a career resurgence lately.

[Lukmendes]

Not at all. I simply rejected Jack's idea that the Latin root for eight was too obscure to be relevant to a pun, by pointing out that, while a mild factor to English, doesn't mean it's irrevelant worldwide.

Even if it's still just a cheap lampshade hanging, "comics huh?!" kinda thing.

Ah, alright.

So it's a risible idea of humor writing by all empirical accounts and the fact that the people who cut this trailer thought this was funny and a big thigh-slapper and so on, reveals their mentality. Relying on a punchline on insider nerd trivia (i.e. Otto and Octavius and so on) is Zack Snyder logic, i.e. Batman and Superman being kids of Martha moms. That was played for drama and this was meant for laugh-out-loud but both are bizarre reactions to basically a nerdy bit of "huh...that's neat I guess" trivia, and obviously developed by people disengaged and disconnected from the real world.

The Martha meme was pretty good at least .

Spider-Man 2 presents Otto as a warm mentor figure who suffers a tragedy and loses his wife and suffers an accident and goes insane. You don't suddenly make a joke about his name and intend that straight with that kind of setup.

Yeah, it also helps that when JJ said it, while it's lampshade hanging his name, it was a throwaway line and there wasn't too much focus on it, and there was even a joke immediately afterwards that got more focus:



At 6:52.

Is Scooby Doo even a pop culture reference kids would know at this point? Do reruns of it get airtime significantly?

While I can't speak about reruns, we did get "Ultra Instinct Shaggy" meme, which can at least show that there's some awareness about Scooby-Doo stuff.

I created that stuff. I contributed a lot to Spider-Man's tvtropes page. I don't do anymore because that isn't ultimately a very fun place but it did help me process and collate the continuity a bit, and uploading the quotes and stuff there allowed me to riff on it later.

Nice, you did a pretty good job.

It depends I guess on how No Way Home ends. Anyway, I always had a guess that NWH is the last Holland Spider-Man film or near the end.

People thought that Spider-Man would be around and so on, but the Shared Universe without Iron Man, Thor, Captain America isn't the one in which Holland originally appeared in. They have a bunch of new characters they want to get up there, they need to get Fantastic Four to work and bring in the X-Men, whatever it is that's happening with Black Panther Post-Boseman, and that's basically five years worth of work, at minimum. Meanwhile they'll do what, an Avengers story with Holland Spidey, Paul Rudd Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Hulk, War Machine, Captain America II? That's not something that would have a great deal of novelty for the audience. Without novelty, without expansion, without clickbait, the MCU dies.

Honestly, wouldn't put that many points in a franchise needing all of this, Simpsons, while it's far less popular now than before, was still getting a good number of views even when the quality was meh for years, people may watch stuff out of habit without dropping even if it sucks, brand recognition is pretty powerful.

There is a person whose i do trust to a point and he basically said that he didn't found Superior Foes that funny and kind of meh in that department, but that is still a very well written and paced (i still don't believe that part considering Spencer track record lol) and that is probably the best Gangward story of the last few year and a great story for B-List and D-List characthers. Still, i do found some of Spencer humor funny, like Boomerang calling his fans "Boomers" ..

That "Okay boomer" joke works well enough because if you don't know about the boomer thing, it sounds like Boomerang was trying to come up with something cool sounding, and this is the same guy who has boom-erangs, so again, it works well enough.

Either way, it's possible Superior Foes has alright pacing, since unlike Secret Empire, it's not an event, and unlike ASM, it's not an on-going, and if Spencer's ASM is any hint, his stuff is better at first, so having a mini can work well with him, but I'd have to check it out to confirm.

Also that Otto Octavius joke would have worked better if they said "were you born in August 8th of 1978" or maybe "are you sure that you aren't also named Irony too?. Then again i was the guy who made the joke of "Lizzard" and "The Lizzy" for Liz Allen and i'm proud of it, so maybe me sense of humor is ****

I think doing that could sound more forced, part of the problem with that moment joke is how disrespectful it sounds in a situation it isn't fitting, so making more jokes about his name, probably wouldn't help.

I guess the stuff you suggested could work if Spidey learned his name while fighting him and then mocked him for it, at least it's a situation where the disrespect is more fitting 'cause Spidey mocks his villains over stuff like this once in a while, hell, I want to find the issue where he said this:

"Spider-Man: Nice costume, Electro! I remember once when I was in a grade school play and I also played a flower."

The joke isn't funny due to more than just irrelevancy, with a poor delivery by Cumberbatch to boot. I wish all trailers would cool it with the jokes in general, even when they are funny, it loses it's luster when you've heard them a million times. When I was at the theater for Eternals, you could tell people were forcing out a chuckle for the bit where Icarus breaks the table because everyone's already seen it.

Well, I may watch Eternals tomorrow, so if that scene is funny, I may at least be someone not doing a forced laugh since I didn't see that scene before lol.

[Scott Taylor]

You have to wonder how the joke will work in foreign language dubs.

They could just translate his name to Eightball McEighty. Or anything that sounds silly in each language really. Doesn't even matter, such is the level of stupid joke that it is. They might as well just overdub the whole scene with a big fart sound.