Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
Does attempted murder count?
It's besides the point.

But he probably didn't feel as guilty about it as Tony did for what his weapons inadvertently caused.
Tony didn't feel guilty until he got into that cave, when he was on the other end of his own weapons. And when he was over 40.

That's the point though, Tony changed and realized he was wrong. Toomes didn't care.
As Omar would say in The Wire, "It's all in the game"



I think we should've seen Peter grow disillusioned with Tony to some extent, but not to the extent where we need to downplay how much of a hero Iron Man was.
The point is that Peter thinks that Tony is some flawless paragon as if he's LeFou to Tony's Gaston. That's just not recognizable as the Tony Stark of the MCU, it's not something that Pepper Potts recognizes, it's not who Rhodey's friends with, it's not who the Avengers or SHIELD know. Heck it's not even who Thanos knows.

The whole point of RDJ's Tony Stark, is that he's the last person who anyone would expect to be a superhero, to make the "sacrifice play" and so on. He's meant to be flawed so that when he does something heroic it feels more surprising. If you have a movie pretending, and inculcating among his fans, that he was never flawed to start with, then you basically create a narrative of zero accountability.

There has to be some semblance of independent moral judgment in Peter Parker the character that conveys he's not just some toy-version of the character who the movie is sold as part of a set to mash Tony and Peter memes on social media like toddlers with their action figures. There has to be some personal reason why he latches on to Tony Stark and how that connects to his story. And no...this stuff needs to come on screen, you can't have fans do the unpaid work that professionals paid and represented by agents and others aren't doing.

Spider-Man Homecoming doesn't need to change a single thing of its plot or ending, but there needs to be a moment or two which acknowledges that Peter's aware of Tony's shady history. And no it has to be Peter himself who realizes this on his own and not have it be told to him as if it's brand new information from an inferior character like Happy Hogan.