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  1. #196
    World's Greatest Hero blackspidey2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    The first Iron Man armor took months to build, in addition to that the box of scraps were still pieces of highly advanced technology, and despite all that the suit held up for like 20 minutes before falling apart
    And on the other hand, Spider-Man's costume is literally longjohns. The most advanced part of it are the webs and webshooters which he built himself anyways in the MCU continuity. You could easily say it took him months to develop spider-tracers, web wings, etc over the course of the film as well - and again, none of those things are as advanced as Iron Man armor except arguably the web fluid.
    "Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man

  2. #197
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    And on the other hand, Spider-Man's costume is literally longjohns. The most advanced part of it are the webs and webshooters which he built himself anyways in the MCU continuity. You could easily say it took him months to develop spider-tracers, web wings, etc over the course of the film as well - and again, none of those things are as advanced as Iron Man armor except arguably the web fluid.
    But you see Peter doesn't have the essential thing. The noble bloodline of House Stark that imbues Tony with royal claim to individual genius ready to access after d--king away 40 years of his life.

    Peasants like Peter need to wait for handouts.

  3. #198
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    Relative to how advanced the Mark I suit was, the tech from the missile parts that Tony used really was just a box of scraps.

    Everyday people in real life have made some decent Spider-Man suits. It's not a huge stretch that a genius kid over the course of a few months can come up with something just as good but maybe slightly more durable.

    But this is part of a larger problem of this Spider-Man being very disconnected from everyday people. Otherwise they would be modeled after real Gen-Z teenagers and not be mere corporate projections of what they think a teen is...or more accurately, of what they want them to be.

    Things like Peter saying "Awesome!" every ten minutes stem from the same problem.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 03-02-2021 at 07:18 PM.

  4. #199
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    The type of people who make can Spider-Man suits in real life are expert cosplayers and experienced seamsters/tailors AKA people who either specifically learned how to make such things or people who's entire job is creating clothes.
    You show me a regular teen who has no previous experience with sewing or tailoring who can do better than the hoodie and sweatpants protosuit Peter made

  5. #200
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    To be honest, what bums me out is how little he quips and how little difference there is between Peter and Spider-Man.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    The type of people who make can Spider-Man suits in real life are expert cosplayers and experienced seamsters/tailors AKA people who either specifically learned how to make such things or people who's entire job is creating clothes.
    You show me a regular teen who has no previous experience with sewing or tailoring who can do better than the hoodie and sweatpants protosuit Peter made
    Comic Con.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 03-02-2021 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #202
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest, what bums me out is how little he quips and how little difference there is between Peter and Spider-Man.
    Another major issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    It's not a huge stretch that a genius kid over the course of a few months can come up with something just as good but maybe slightly more durable.

    But this is part of a larger problem of this Spider-Man being very disconnected from everyday people. Otherwise they would be modeled after real Gen-Z teenagers and not be mere corporate projections of what they think a teen is...or more accurately, of what they want them to be.
    Kaitou, we must not encourage the peasantry by reminding them of how resourceful and talented they have been historically and in the present day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    The type of people who make can Spider-Man suits in real life are expert cosplayers and experienced seamsters/tailors AKA people who either specifically learned how to make such things or people who's entire job is creating clothes.
    Yoda That is why you fail.jpg

    You show me a regular teen who has no previous experience with sewing or tailoring who can do better than the hoodie and sweatpants protosuit Peter made
    Show me a real-life billionaire who at the age of 40 gives up a career of skirt-chasing, wild partying, and showboating to personally upend his own corporation to launch a private crusade?

    Prove that first.

  8. #203
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Show me a real-life billionaire who at the age of 40 gives up a career of skirt-chasing, wild partying, and showboating to personally upend his own corporation to launch a private crusade?

    Prove that first.
    It doesn't seem impossible, but I believe in the best of people .

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewel Runner View Post
    The type of people who make can Spider-Man suits in real life are expert cosplayers and experienced seamsters/tailors AKA people who either specifically learned how to make such things or people who's entire job is creating clothes.
    You show me a regular teen who has no previous experience with sewing or tailoring who can do better than the hoodie and sweatpants protosuit Peter made
    Not necessarily. I’d say most people at comic con aren’t experts at the craft. A lot of people I know buy the various ingredients and put them together. I mean Spider-Man’s suit is not exactly the pinnacle of an expert tailor. Heck it’s like a 5 piece suit... red gloves and boots, blue compression/active pants. A red mask and I’d say maybe the long sleeved shirt would be the most time consuming (as unlike the rest it’s not a solid color item that I could get on Amazon. Heck I’d say the Spidey suit is more believable for someone without too much talent to put together than the web shooters. If we can buy Peter stealing chemicals from his school with no one batting an eyelash (stuff like lab equipment must be accounted for at schools), we can buy a comic con grade Spider-Man suit.
    Last edited by Mistah K88; 03-02-2021 at 08:29 PM.

  10. #205
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Not necessarily. Iíd say most people at comic con arenít experts at the craft. A lot of people I know but the various ingredients and put them together. I mean Spider-Manís suit is not exactly the pinnacle of an expert tailor. Heck itís like a 5 piece suit... red gloves and boots, blue compression/active pants. A red mask and Iíd say maybe the long sleeved shirt would be the most time consuming (as unlike the rest itís not a solid color that I could get on Amazon. Heck Iíd say the Spidey suit is more believable for someone without too much talent to put together than the web shooters. If we can buy Peter stealing chemicals from his school with no one batting an eyelash (stuff like lab equipment must be accounted for at schools), we can buy a comic con grade Spider-Man suit.
    You can always tell when people have no idea about working people or people from a poor background in terms of their assumptions about what they can and cannot do.

    The concept of people in low-income categories needing to DIY stuff since they can't go and buy something new when the current one tears up, needing to thrift shop, and kitbash stuff together...all of this is remote it seems. (And again it's not fun being poor, so it's good that this is remote but one should have humility nonetheless).

    Another major annoyance for me was Tony at the end of Homecoming when Peter turned down being in the Avengers he said, "Oh yeah that Bruce Springsteen working-class hero" thing, and I literally wanted anyone, even Thanos to just punch him in that moment. (Did nobody realize how badly this made Stark sound?).

    I suggest a more appropriate song for Tony, and also for all the "peasants can't create art" crowd:


    Also some comics from Bendis' run where Mary Jane reminds Tony that unlike him, when she ran away from home, she did the real thing, and not with a duffel bag full of cash:
    Bendis Invinc-IM#11 - MJ and Tony 1.jpg

    Bendis Invinc-IM#11 - MJ and Tony 2.jpg

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest, what bums me out is how little he quips and how little difference there is between Peter and Spider-Man.
    There was some notable difference between Peter and Spider-Man in Homecoming. It's mostly the other films where the difference isn't there.

    Homecoming is sadly more problematic in hindsight than it was in 2017. Based on what Watts and Feige said at the time, Peter rejecting Tony at the end of the film was indeed supposed to be him taking Vulture's words to heart and breaking off from Tony. Feige also sourced Batman Begins as an influence on Homecoming, and BB is a film where the hero learns a lot from the villain.

    Outside of that, Homecoming in general had a rebellious teen spirit to it. There are multiple references to 60s counter-culture music and to John Hughes films. Many characters talk about the need to rebel sometimes. And Peter himself is the most Peter Parker he's ever been in this universe:

    1. Snarking at the Avengers thugs and at Vulture & Gargan's men.
    2. Bragging to Ned about going against Tony and Happy's wishes.
    3. Being the most assertive, like when snapping at Tony or insisting he wants to take his luggage upstairs himself.

    It's pretty clear that the intention of the film was for Peter to branch out on his own, but then Infinity War/Endgame happened. My guess is that they weren't sure where Peter and Tony's relationship would go next in those films, so they added in that joke about Tony showing him the Iron Spider suit as a "test" in case they had to backtrack (and backtrack they did).

    I'm sure the studio execs at Sony and Disney were part of why Peter's split from Tony didn't stick, but a lot of that also has to do with the Russos. Based on their Civil War interviews, I'm convinced all the tension and split between the two characters in Homecoming came from Watts and not from the Russos. It doesn't seem like Tony and Peter going their separate ways and having disagreements was ever in their cards. I'm not going to accuse the Russos of intentionally discarding an entire film's character arc for their vision, but at the very least I do think there's some confirmation bias in how they interpreted Homecoming's ending.

    Homecoming was my favorite Spider-Man film at the time it came out, but I've grown more indifferent to it for several reasons:

    1. A lot of the ideas I thought were new turned out to be taken from Miles Morales, and I now find in poor taste.

    2. Some of the ideas I thought they were seeding turned out to be only in my head.

    3. And yes, I admit that MCU Spider-Man as a whole kinda left a poor taste in my mouth that affects my enjoyment of Homecoming.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 03-02-2021 at 08:47 PM.

  12. #207
    Incredible Member Spidey_62's Avatar
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    That's the thing, I feel like it's always one step forward and another two back with MCU Spidey. I like how Homecoming ended with him turning down Stark's fancy new suit and Avengers membership and then immediately after that next time we see Spidey he gets the fancy new Stark suit and Avengers membership which is a bummer to me as a classic loner-Spidey-lover. It's the kind of stuff that just feels like it's done to me because they gotta have them new suit toys and Avengers are popular so he's gotta be an Avenger (the whole point of the Sony/Marvel deal pretty much, just get all the mileage out of it).
    Last edited by Spidey_62; 03-02-2021 at 11:44 PM.

  13. #208
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Given the context of why MCU Peter has 5 suits (3 mission related, 2 self made) I really don’t understand the issue with them. Especially since everybody gets some kind of new gear/form every movie (with some exceptions). You can’t argue that he’s portrayed as being incapable of making his own gear because he already has made his own web formula, web shooters and (when given access to the proper equipment) advanced suit. So what’s the issue? He clearly doesn’t NEED to be given his gear but he’s also not an idiot who will turn down access to better equipment if he has the chance.

    That’s not to say there haven’t been some misfires with MCU Peter because there absolutely has been (such as having May discover Peter’s Spider-man than resolving it off screen when it should have happened during homecoming).

  14. #209
    Peter Scott SpiderClops's Avatar
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    I don't know about anyone else, but when I think of Spider-Man, "is good at tailoring" never comes to mind.

    All people are doing is stating their preferences, which as I say again and again, is fine. But you can't say that it somehow doesn't make sense for him to not develop fancy looking suit on his own with his pocket money just because very very few cosplayers have done it.

    And just to be clear, I still don't think any cosplayer has created a costume better than Peter's initial costume in MCU. Unless all your requirement is the webbed design and spider logo. Other than that, not even close.

    By the way, Tobey Maguire's costume took something like $100-150k to make.

  15. #210
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Tobey's Spider-Man suit looked good on-screen because of the lighting and cinematography which really made the primary colors shine, but it's definitely a lot less plush looking than the Batsuits of the Burton and Schumacher movies, or the Leather ensemble of the X-Men in the Fox movies, to refer to movies closer to its time.



    .

    This.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Funny thing is that the Spider-Man suit itself wasn’t all that impressive before. I could totally buy that Peter could McGuyver a basic Spider-Man suit, even MORESO since superheroes and villains exist in the universe. Heck I’ve seen people make impressive cosplay stuff on a budget with probably less than Peter has got. However NOW it’s hard to believe that someone on Peter’s income can make a Stark brand Spider-Man suit with all of those bells and whistles that come with it. ABSOLUTELY not.
    My issue with the spiderman suit is not the suit itself, is the meaning of the suit. maybe I may be reading too much for MCU, since their story mostly function as paint and dry stories. I dont like peter in that iron man spidey suit. it takes away the relatability and Everyman theme of his character.

    There was something about his ordinary suits in the raimi movies. the spiderman iron suit is too consuming of all things stark.

    Just a story commentary on the suit that exposed how far off this series is to raimi. when peter first draws his suit in spiderman 2002. It is uncle ben voice he hears as he looks at the suit. MCU what voice is he hearing? tony, jarvis, happy?

    too different outcomes but still a reminder of why Raimi Spiderman is the best incarnation of the character.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-03-2021 at 03:59 AM.

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