Spider-Man 3: No Way Home

[Webhead]

Mysterio isn't really a physical threat in FFH as it is. Nor is Vulture where the movie removes the fact that Roger Stern established that the Vulture suit and harness gave the wearer super-strength.

They're not threats on their own because they're not superhuman but they make up with the tech and weaponry.

Mysterio had drones simply cause animatronics, crew people and Ludwig Rinehart are harder to implement.

[John Venus]

Wasn't Spidey in Civil War similarly a last minute addition? Annoying pattern if so lol.

There were multiple scripts for Civil War depending on how the deals turned out.

There was a version without Iron Man in case Downey didn't sign on [they were thinking of adapting the Mad Bomb story line].

There was a version of the script with Spider-Man but a smaller role for Black Panther. They had written Panther having a cameo appearance at the UN and leave it up to his movie to flesh him out. But then it looked like they might not get Spider-Man so they expanded BP's role and did a version of the script without Spider-Man at all.

But ultimately they got to have their cake and eat it too.

[Frontier]

Hopefully they're not like Noir/Peni/Ham in the sense they don't really matter to the plot and can be removed without losing much lol.

I think at the very least they've got to be more relevant than that since the plot of the film hinges on fighting their villains.

It's also been rumored that they have some role in Hollands' character arc.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I guess there's 4 possibilities:

1. Co-protagonists like Peter, Miles, and Gwen in ITSV

2. Like Noir/Peni/Ham in the sense they don't really matter to the plot and can be removed without losing much

3. Somewhere in between 1 and 2

4. No-show's or a quick cameo (grouped these two together because, let's face it, a quick cameo would practically be no-show)

[John Venus]

I actually really like MCU Mysterio. It's probably the only reason that FFH is somewhat memorable to me. One of the best MCU villains IMO.

The stuff with the drones, I attribute that more to the film wanting to make him a parallel to Iron Man and the "new evil Iron Man" (to contrast it with Peter being the "new good Spider-Man"). That part I don't like, but I don't know if that has anything to do with the film trying to "modernize" Mysterio. Mysterio to me is about distorting reality with illusions and whatever resources he has, and in the case of FFH that just happened to have been drones.

Plus, the general sense I get from Gyllenhaal's take is that even without the drones, his particular version would have still found ways to be lethal and menacing. Like in the scene where he almost shoots Peter in the head with a pistol. I remember almost jumping out of my seat (anyone without spider-sense or Daredevil's radar sense would have died from that).

Also, Mysterio fooling Skrulls is very boss.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Stark element but I enjoyed everything else about the character. Plus I liked the fact that a villain not named Goblin or Ock managed to have the kind of impact on Peter's life that Mysterio had in the MCU. Pulling out a last minute victory which destroyed Peter's secret identity, single-handedly restored his reputation and brought MCU JJJ to the screen and the consequences of which are carried on to the next film was brilliant.

Mysterio is one of those villains whom people underestimate but he can turn on a dime and show you just how deadly he can be.

While I enjoy 616 Mysterio being all practical effects and tricks, that doesn't translate so well to live action where the antagonist is expected to be a physical threat to the hero in some way, as well as stand out from normal people.

Like if Chameleon ever gets adapted to film it would be reasonable to have the version where he could change his appearance and voice as a superpower, even if that wasn't very popular in the comics.

Chameleon would probably be using a more advanced version of the tech that Widow and SHIELD agents use to disguise themselves. Lets just hope he's not a disgruntled Stark employee. lol

I was expecting a cinematic Mysterio to use some version of a holographic tech. Even in animation (both in the 90's cartoon and Spectacular Spider-Man) some of the stuff he pulls claiming to be 'practical effects' was strained suspension of disbelief. Plus I think even back then he was established to have use holograms for some of his tricks whereas in the MCU it's his entire gimmick (which could be read as a reference to how CGI dependent modern Hollywood, especially MCU, is).

I think the one thing fans near unanimously agree on is that the best part of MCU Spider-Man has been the villains.

Yeah, I have no problem with the villains. They're really good and really polished. It probably helps that Dock Ock and Green Goblin from the Raimi movies set a benchmark for great villains so they had an obligation to live up to that and unlike other MCU heroes, they were introducing Peter with the assumption that everybody already knows his origin. I also think Holland is the best live action Peter Parker in that he is able to capture Peter's geekiness, wise cracking to deal with pressure and dramatic moments. We just need a 'pure' Spider-Man film from him before he walks away from the role, a film that's not diluted with crossing over with the greater MCU.

My main problem is largely with their handling of the supporting cast. Aunt May is just 'Hot May' and very underdeveloped. They're literal cowards for not outright saying Zendaya is Mary Jane. Ned is just Ganke with a different name and no offense to Jacob but they really should have gone with someone from Peter's own canon to be his High School best friend. The more I think about it, the more I think they should have leaned into the Ditko influence and cast Zendaya as Liz to be Peter's girlfriend for the High School Trilogy.

[Lukmendes]

There were multiple scripts for Civil War depending on how the deals turned out.

There was a version without Iron Man in case Downey didn't sign on [they were thinking of adapting the Mad Bomb story line].

There was a version of the script with Spider-Man but a smaller role for Black Panther. They had written Panther having a cameo appearance at the UN and leave it up to his movie to flesh him out. But then it looked like they might not get Spider-Man so they expanded BP's role and did a version of the script without Spider-Man at all.

But ultimately they got to have their cake and eat it too.

I had no idea there could be a version of CW without Stark lol.

I think at the very least they've got to be more relevant than that since the plot of the film hinges on fighting their villains.

Well, it depends if they're gonna help, or if the movie's gonna have Holland kicking the villains' asses to show he's a real Spider-Man or somethin'.

It's also been rumored that they have some role in Hollands' character arc.

So maybe one or both could be like Peter B. I guess.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Stark element but I enjoyed everything else about the character. Plus I liked the fact that a villain not named Goblin or Ock managed to have the kind of impact on Peter's life that Mysterio had in the MCU. Pulling out a last minute victory which destroyed Peter's secret identity, single-handedly restored his reputation and brought MCU JJJ to the screen and the consequences of which are carried on to the next film was brilliant.

Mysterio is one of those villains whom people underestimate but he can turn on a dime and show you just how deadly he can be.

Huh, this might be the first time he's that much of a pain in Spidey's ass, 'cause "dangerous Mysterio" either did stuff in an alternate universe (Old Man Logan), or another hero (Guardian Devil, where he killed himself after tormenting Daredevil).

Chameleon would probably be using a more advanced version of the tech that Widow and SHIELD agents use to disguise themselves. Lets just hope he's not a disgruntled Stark employee. lol

Don't bet on that, just to be safe .

[Frontier]

Yeah, I have no problem with the villains. They're really good and really polished. It probably helps that Dock Ock and Green Goblin from the Raimi movies set a benchmark for great villains so they had an obligation to live up to that and unlike other MCU heroes, they were introducing Peter with the assumption that everybody already knows his origin. I also think Holland is the best live action Peter Parker in that he is able to capture Peter's geekiness, wise cracking to deal with pressure and dramatic moments. We just need a 'pure' Spider-Man film from him before he walks away from the role, a film that's not diluted with crossing over with the greater MCU.

I think he's good at depicting Peter's vulnerability and resolve, but the movies are very inconsistent with his Spider-Man "voice" and he's not as sassy as he needs to be in my opinion. He comes off more as a babbler than a quipper and the stakes of the final fights always make it so he has to be pretty quiet and serious.

My main problem is largely with their handling of the supporting cast. Aunt May is just 'Hot May' and very underdeveloped. They're literal cowards for not outright saying Zendaya is Mary Jane. Ned is just Ganke with a different name and no offense to Jacob but they really should have gone with someone from Peter's own canon to be his High School best friend. The more I think about it, the more I think they should have leaned into the Ditko influence and cast Zendaya as Liz to be Peter's girlfriend for the High School Trilogy.

If the director was going to cite influences from Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane and Ultimate than:

A. Zendaya's character should've been Peter's only confidante from the get-go.

B. Zendaya should've played a more traditional Mary Jane that Peter ends up pining after and having a slow-burn romance like SMLMJ.

Well, it depends if they're gonna help, or if the movie's gonna have Holland kicking the villains' asses to show he's a real Spider-Man or somethin'.

So are we assuming Holland is such a real Spider-Man that he can hit villains with the air now? Is that what hit Lizard ?

[Lukmendes]

I think he's good at depicting Peter's vulnerability and resolve, but the movies are very inconsistent with his Spider-Man "voice" and he's not as sassy as he needs to be in my opinion. He comes off more as a babbler than a quipper and the stakes of the final fights always make it so he has to be pretty quiet and serious.

Spidey may become quieter if a final battle becomes serious, but yeah, happening too much is meh lol.

If the director was going to cite influences from Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane and Ultimate than:

A. Zendaya's character should've been Peter's only confidante from the get-go.

B. Zendaya should've played a more traditional Mary Jane that Peter ends up pining after and having a slow-burn romance like SMLMJ.

Well, that was a sudden mention of Spidey loves MJ.

And hey, I fully support having SMLMJ's influence being in MCU, on the condition this masterpiece of a scene is adapted:



(SMLMJ#13)

So are we assuming Holland is such a real Spider-Man that he can hit villains with the air now? Is that what hit Lizard ?

Of course, he learned how to make invisible webs he can control remotely, like psi-webs, but invisible :P.

Either that or he learned air bending .

[Frontier]

Spidey may become quieter if a final battle becomes serious, but yeah, happening too much is meh lol.

Remember when Garfield quipped against Electro? Good times.

Well, that was a sudden mention of Spidey loves MJ.

And hey, I fully support having SMLMJ's influence being in MCU, on the condition this masterpiece of a scene is adapted:



(SMLMJ#13)

I think my favorite scene is when she's rushing out the door to see Spidey and about to say the Face it Tiger line and there's Peter adorably holding flowers .

If we ever got a Spider-Man cartoon ala My Adventures with Superman, I would want it to be based on SMLMJ.

Of course, he learned how to make invisible webs he can control remotely, like psi-webs, but invisible :P.

Either that or he learned air bending .

Well, he is getting a magical Black Suit...

[Lukmendes]

Remember when Garfield quipped against Electro? Good times.

Didn't watch that movie, but from what I remember from ASM1, he was a lot quippier than Maguire's Spidey, at least.

I think my favorite scene is when she's rushing out the door to see Spidey and about to say the Face it Tiger line and there's Peter adorably holding flowers .

And then MJ refuses the date, 'cause she's going on a date with Spidey, Peter was stupid enough to cock block himself and that's amazing lol.

One detail I found funny is that, besides recaps, the story never directly says he's Spidey, at times I even considered the possibility he wasn't Spidey for the sake of a weird twist lol.

If we ever got a Spider-Man cartoon ala My Adventures with Superman, I would want it to be based on SMLMJ.

Huh, didn't think My Adventures With Supes had a romantic angle, but then again, I only know its names and assumed it was like Lois and Clark series, y'know, that one from the 90's lol.

And well, if they made something based on SMLMJ, they would need to improve Peter's characterization.

MJ's group had decent enough chemistry with each other and decent enough development, then once Peter stops being a glorified extra, he shows up a lot more than they do, and his personality is little more than a shy nerd who MJ has a crush on for some reason (Though he does have funny quips once in a while), which was pretty meh, it's weird to have Peter around and start to wish he shows up less lol.

Well, he is getting a magical Black Suit...

Is that black suit a literal magic suit? Is Strange replacing Stark as being the guy who gives Peter stuff? Lol.

[Agent Z]

That I'll give you. The part in the end when the Skrulls are griping in the car about how Mysterio pwned them and they have to make excuses to the real Nick was quite funny.



Mysterio isn't really a physical threat in FFH as it is. Nor is Vulture where the movie removes the fact that Roger Stern established that the Vulture suit and harness gave the wearer super-strength.



Spider-Man isn't Batman. A good to great Batman movie can be centered entirely on the villains at the expense of the hero but you can't do that with Spider-Man and be satisfying.



Speaking of Jameson, Simmons gave an interview where he threw some shade at the producers:

https://thedirect.com/article/spider...racter-version

"I think it’s a slightly different version, certainly from the creators of this current iteration of the story, it’s a very different character. To me, it’s a slightly different character. It’s the same blowhard, the same guy with less hair, and honestly, I kinda wish he still had the same hair, but I think the first time they asked me to do it, I assume it was kinda late notice decision on their parts to add Jameson because once they came and asked me to do it, it was like ‘Let’s sit down, let’s have a meeting with all the big wigs as Sony and talk about it,’ and, ‘Yes, ok,’ and, ‘Bang, Bang, Bang, the deal’s done and, you know, we’re shooting the day after tomorrow, and no we don’t want you to have the flat-top haircut,’ and I was like ‘wait, wait, wait, what?’ ‘Yeah, we don’t want the cigar and the mustache and the blah blah blah,’ and I was like, ‘That’s kinda the guy, you know?’"

Not seeing any shade being thrown here.

[Frontier]

Didn't watch that movie, but from what I remember from ASM1, he was a lot quippier than Maguire's Spidey, at least.

Maybe slightly quippier, but I think people remember it more because he had a better delivery.

And then MJ refuses the date, 'cause she's going on a date with Spidey, Peter was stupid enough to cock block himself and that's amazing lol.

One detail I found funny is that, besides recaps, the story never directly says he's Spidey, at times I even considered the possibility he wasn't Spidey for the sake of a weird twist lol.

I love that part where Peter as Spidey is being MJ's shoulder to cry on because he thinks she's depressed about Harry and then she ends up admitting her feelings for Peter in front of him and Peter realizes how much he screwed up and you can't see how shocked he is under the mask but it's still amazing .

(Man, I wish they'd revive that series).

Huh, didn't think My Adventures With Supes had a romantic angle, but then again, I only know its names and assumed it was like Lois and Clark series, y'know, that one from the 90's lol.

It's supposed to be a Superhero romcom.

And well, if they made something based on SMLMJ, they would need to improve Peter's characterization.

MJ's group had decent enough chemistry with each other and decent enough development, then once Peter stops being a glorified extra, he shows up a lot more than they do, and his personality is little more than a shy nerd who MJ has a crush on for some reason (Though he does have funny quips once in a while), which was pretty meh, it's weird to have Peter around and start to wish he shows up less lol.

I think Peter's characterization was fine for how he was handled in the book, where from MJ's perspective he's just this shy, nerdy, kid with a bit of fire in him but also comes off as an enigma and someone you can't figure out for...obvious reasons, and then that's contrasted with when we see him as Spidey. I think MJ fell for him because he was there for her after the Homecoming crash and burn and they bonded during their tutoring sessions.

Is that black suit a literal magic suit? Is Strange replacing Stark as being the guy who gives Peter stuff? Lol.

Well, it has the Sorcerer stuff popping up during that scene with Electro, but we don't quite know where the suit comes up.

[Lukmendes]

I love that part where Peter as Spidey is being MJ's shoulder to cry on because he thinks she's depressed about Harry and then she ends up admitting her feelings for Peter in front of him and Peter realizes how much he screwed up and you can't see how shocked he is under the mask but it's still amazing .

The funny thing is that she always admitted she likes Peter, but he thought she was talking about Harry, but once she mentions that she saw the guy she likes being kissed on the arcade, he realized, but then on the same day MJ tells Peter she's happy for him and Gwen.

The dumb drama in that series was hilarious and the more convoluted it got, the harder I was laughing, it's too bad Felicia is barely a part of it .

(Man, I wish they'd revive that series).

That season 2 probably killed any chances of it returning lol.

I think Peter's characterization was fine for how he was handled in the book, where from MJ's perspective he's just this shy, nerdy, kid with a bit of fire in him but also comes off as an enigma and someone you can't figure out for...obvious reasons, and then that's contrasted with when we see him as Spidey. I think MJ fell for him because he was there for her after the Homecoming crash and burn and they bonded during their tutoring sessions.

I still felt like there was little actual chemistry between them, and he felt, I dunno, bland I guess.

It's kinda ironic now that I think of it, 'cause this is the opposite of how I feel compared to Ditko's run, where Peter is one of the two interesting characters while I don't like any of the non-JJ supporting cast members, but in SMLMJ I'm okay with the rest, but Peter bores me lol.

Well, it has the Sorcerer stuff popping up during that scene with Electro, but we don't quite know where the suit comes up.

Friend of mine says it could be an anti-Electro suit, but yeah, wouldn't explain the magic stuff that shows up.

[Agent Z]

It means that MCU are riffing off copies and imitations of the source and not the source itself.

The Screenslaver doesn't have a patent on holographic technology. And her motivation isn't even the same one as Mysterio's in Far From Home.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

The attacks one makes towards people for not liking a thing one likes (or vice-versus) are really, really weird.