Spider-Man 3: No Way Home

[HypnoHustler]

Only people who read the comics as kids think the original GG outfit which makes him look like a Skrull is a smart design that can easily translate to live action. The comics goblin is more purple than green which struck me as odd compared to the emerald green ensemble.

No need to get defensive. The Power Ranger GG costume was wildly unpopular on forums when the film was first in production. That’s just the facts, Jack. Take it from someone who’s been lurking and posting on Spidey related forums since the late 90s.
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Baby boomers are those born and came of age in the 60s. Technically 616 Peter is boomer.

Also In my experience Gen Z aren’t big fans of Holland

Um.. you misunderstand. I’m speaking literally. Holland is a zoomer. Molina, Dafoe, Keaton and maybe Foxx (he might be on the cusp between Boomer and Gen X) are all boomers.

[Frontier]

Personally I was fine with the Goblin mask in the Raimi films but I think you could conceivably do a more comic-accurate Goblin mask with today's technology.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

No need to get defensive.

I think the opposite, pal.

The Power Ranger GG costume was wildly unpopular on forums when the film was first in production.

Lot of things were unpopular during production including the casting and so on. Fewer people posted on forums at the time then now.

The goblin outfit worked in the scenes where it’s supposed to work.

[Webhead]

While I don't like the helmet (why would you put an ugly mask that can't emote on arguably the best actor of the film?), I don't think the original mask would've worked. Still would be hard nowadays.

[fin5]

How Much money do you think it will make

[Revolutionary_Jack]

While I don't like the helmet (why would you put an ugly mask that can't emote on arguably the best actor of the film?),

Masks can't emote. That's why they are masks. It's kind of their thing.

In the comics you can get away with it because the two dimensionality and cartoonish nature of the images allows artists to get away with artificial hijinks like painting expressions and reactions, or you know giving Batman blank white eyes like the animated series did.

Spider-Man's mask doesn't emote either in the Raimi films, which is why they keep having the hero's identity compromised in the sequels and reboots to give the actor face time.

I don't think the original mask would've worked. Still would be hard nowadays.

The original mask is glorified because it's untested and prototypical and never had to see the light of the day, so people can fantasize that this mask would somehow work in the movies and never have their illusions destroyed.

The original mask is first and foremost animatronic and ungainly and even less actor friendly than simply having them wear a fixed helmet.

How Much money do you think it will make

Well hopefully, for Sony Pictures shareholders and others, a lot of money. The new James Bond movie (a Sony picture) is globally a success but underwhelmed in US market. Venom continues to be a low-budget scuzzball franchise extraordinaire.

I expect at minimum that the new Spider-Man movie will do better than Dune, better than Bond, better than the other superhero movies released this year.

Now whether it hits a billion dollars globally (which would be significant...on paper, lol) or breaks $400mn domestic (which no SM movie's done since SM-1 and would mean a great deal more but now that number is about $600mn on account of inflation), I don't know but it's got the best shot of any movie so far.

[Frontier]

You could probably make a good Goblin mask through mo-cap.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You could probably make a good Goblin mask through mo-cap.

The point is that Norman puts on a costume and becomes Green Goblin, he doesn't physically change and become Green Goblin**. So what would be the narrative justification of mo-cap? So far mo-cap has only applied to characters who do undergo a full physical transformation (Gollum, Hulk) or those who are fully CGI (Thanos). It hasn't applied to regular people who put on a mask and costume.

It would create confusion to see a normal person put on a mask which is fully emotive and expressive and then have them remove that mask and it becomes a regular mask just lying around and so on. That would raise way too many questions. People would wonder if the Green Goblin outfit works like The Mask i.e. the Jim Carrey movie (or the Dark Horse Comics)? And if that's the case why not ask why don't they animate Spider-Man's face mask to make it as expressive as it is in the comics or for that matter why isn't Batman's face-mask in movies as expressive as it is in the comics or animated series. The point is that these masks originated in a 2-dimensional world.

The Goblin Mask of the Spider-Man films is a distinct looking headpiece, it has a HR Giger Alien looping head curve, and has a demonic frozen expression with teeth, and two golden lenses. It's a scary looking mask that somehow fits with the displays on Norman's rich storeroom, and it also works for the horror vibe as when Norman attacks Aunt May and descends from the night sky like some scary demon (for all the jokes about the mask and so on, nobody has ever offered an explanation for why the costume that's supposedly so bad still works as intended in this scene).



** Not including Ultimate Green Goblin but let's not bring him up, lol.

[Frontier]

The point is that Norman puts on a costume and becomes Green Goblin, he doesn't physically change and become Green Goblin**. So what would be the narrative justification of mo-cap? So far mo-cap has only applied to characters who do undergo a full physical transformation (Gollum, Hulk) or those who are fully CGI (Thanos). It hasn't applied to regular people who put on a mask and costume.

It would create confusion to see a normal person put on a mask which is fully emotive and expressive and then have them remove that mask and it becomes a regular mask just lying around and so on. That would raise way too many questions. People would wonder if the Green Goblin outfit works like The Mask i.e. the Jim Carrey movie (or the Dark Horse Comics)? And if that's the case why not ask why don't they animate Spider-Man's face mask to make it as expressive as it is in the comics or for that matter why isn't Batman's face-mask in movies as expressive as it is in the comics or animated series. The point is that these masks originated in a 2-dimensional world.

The Goblin Mask of the Spider-Man films is a distinct looking headpiece, it has a HR Giger Alien looping head curve, and has a demonic frozen expression with teeth, and two golden lenses. It's a scary looking mask that somehow fits with the displays on Norman's rich storeroom, and it also works for the horror vibe as when Norman attacks Aunt May and descends from the night sky like some scary demon (for all the jokes about the mask and so on, nobody has ever offered an explanation for why the costume that's supposedly so bad still works as intended in this scene).



** Not including Ultimate Green Goblin but let's not bring him up, lol.

Probably nano-fiber reactive cloth that obscures his identity but lets him be as expressive as possible.

Haven't they animated Spider-Man's MCU mask? Like, it's not on Deadpool level but the mask is definitely more emotive than it was compared to the past live-action Spider-Suits. I'm pretty sure they CG it to make it more expressive.

[ZeroBG82]

The Power Ranger helmet was laughably bad then. It remains absolutely terrible now.

Not saying the comic accurate look would work either, mind. But you cast Dafoe, who has the most amazing ability to emote and sneer, and then you put him in that joke of a helmet?

It's easily the worst visual choice in the first film. The only reason it would be remotely acceptable to see it again in NWH is the pure nostalgia factor. Well, and because you could let Tom's Peter quip it into submission like any proper Spidey should.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Probably nano-fiber reactive cloth that obscures his identity but lets him be as expressive as possible.

Maybe?

Haven't they animated Spider-Man's MCU mask? Like, it's not on Deadpool level but the mask is definitely more emotive than it was compared to the past live-action Spider-Suits. I'm pretty sure they CG it to make it more expressive.

They add something about the mask having adaptive lenses and so on, but even then Tom Holland does spend far more time maskless than Deadpool does. So the effect of Spider-Man's mask being expressive doesn't come across too often (the big exception is FFH's post-credits scene).

Yeah they do CGI here and there.

The big problem is that Captain Marvel introduced the Skrulls and the fact is in the comics the Skrulls resemble Green Goblin a fair bit. So making them distinct in live-action would be a challenge if you wanted to make it more like the comics now.

The Power Ranger helmet was laughably bad then.

It doesn't resemble a Power Rangers helmet in any level. But suit yourself, pun intended and all.

But you cast Dafoe, who has the most amazing ability to emote and sneer, and then you put him in that joke of a helmet?

The character on paper is written to be a person who wears a costume and hides his villainous activities by wearing a mask. So the issue would have come up with any version of the costume he wore.

You might as well make an issue of them casting Tobey Maguire as Spider-Man since he too has an emotive face but when he becomes Spider-Man he has to hide it in a face-covering mask. (And in Spider-Man 1 they generally respected the mask and kept him covered for the film unlike the sequels).

Again, this is the basic issue of adaptating characters from 2D panels and ballons to 3D live-action. Do you really think Batman in the comics and the cartoons with his white-eyes look that clearly makes Bruce Wayne and Batman look like distinct individuals translates into live-action? Similarly in the comics, Norman Osborn in his Joseph Cotten design does not have the same face or emote the same way when he's drawn as the Green Goblin.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

There used to be a time we didn't think Spider-Man's expressive eyes could work in live-action, but the last five films with Spider-Man in it and (to a lesser extent) the Insomniac games have proven us wrong.

You can totally get away with a more expressive Green Goblin mask in 2021, even if not to the same extent you can get away with it in comics and animation.

If the Green Goblin doesn't have a more expressive mask in NWH, it will probably have more to do with continuity reasons. Which is understandable. If this was a new Green Goblin though, I do think Feige and Co. would have tried to bring the comic mask to life the way they brought Spider-Man's moving eyes to life.

[Frontier]

There used to be a time we didn't think Spider-Man's expressive eyes could work in live-action, but the last five films with Spider-Man in it and (to a lesser extent) the Insomniac games have proven us wrong.

You can totally get away with a more expressive Green Goblin mask in 2021, even if not to the same extent you can get away with it in comics and animation.

If the Green Goblin doesn't have a more expressive mask in NWH, it will probably have more to do with continuity reasons. Which is understandable. If this was a new Green Goblin though, I do think Feige and Co. would have tried to bring the comic mask to life the way they brought Spider-Man's moving eyes to life.

I really wish Holland was getting his own versions of the main Spider-Man villains.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I really wish Holland was getting his own versions of the main Spider-Man villains.

I find it refreshing he finally has villains that have beef with Spider-Man and not Iron Man, even if the beef in this case is one-sided on the villains' part. I would honestly take that over another MCU version that was Stark-created. Plus, it's cool to see Dafoe, Molina, and Foxx again.

I do think the Green Goblin being in this hurts our chances of getting an MCU Green Goblin. If they ever bring in MCU Norman, they might just make him Iron Patriot, which is lame.

[Webhead]

Masks can't emote. That's why they are masks. It's kind of their thing.

In the comics you can get away with it because the two dimensionality and cartoonish nature of the images allows artists to get away with artificial hijinks like painting expressions and reactions, or you know giving Batman blank white eyes like the animated series did.

Spider-Man's mask doesn't emote either in the Raimi films, which is why they keep having the hero's identity compromised in the sequels and reboots to give the actor face time.



The original mask is glorified because it's untested and prototypical and never had to see the light of the day, so people can fantasize that this mask would somehow work in the movies and never have their illusions destroyed.

The original mask is first and foremost animatronic and ungainly and even less actor friendly than simply having them wear a fixed helmet.

Oh sorry, I meant the original mask from the comic book.

I think they'll make some minor changes to the SM1 design, and considering the MCU franchise is very tech-oriented, it probably works better to keep the general idea of the helmet, even throwing the whole special sight/sensors for a better justification.