Spider-Man 3: No Way Home

[Revolutionary_Jack]

If for some reason Tobey and Andrew aren't in this, it would be a red flag at this point. Typically when studios don't come out and debunk false rumors that get this massive, it's because they don't have confident in their film and are hoping the hype would bring enough money opening weekend. We saw this happen with BvS, where WB knew in advance the movie wasn't that good and were hoping people would look past that cuz of the Batman-fighting-Superman hype.

Well that's different because say what you will about Snyder, the entire film was always set up and planned on a Batman-Superman team-up and conflict.

It becoming a Justice League Origin story, and introducing Wonder Woman (which was announced in the lead-up to the film anyway) felt more CYA but even then the marketing basically revealed all the stuff in the film (i.e. Wonder Woman, Doomsday, even New Gods stuff i.e. the Omega logo in the sands). And it was all featured prominently just not executed very well.

[David Walton]

Nothing will ever top Amy Pascal’s leaked emails from the ASM era.

Anyway, from what I’ve read and my own visual observation, I’d wager the leaked pics were real. They’re certainly the MOST real out of all the “leaks” so far.

I'm pretty confident that we'll see Tobey and Andrew in the film, mind you. I just think it would be hilarious if that wasn't the case.

I imagine the conversations must go something like this:

Attachment 115396

LOL That's funny

As I said, either it's the best or the worst. Either these guys are so confident they can misdirect the public and make them like what they do have to offer, or they are in fact giving people everything they want and are being coy for no reason.

Or you know maybe it's like Alien 3 and they kill off the supporting cast from Cameron's Aliens in the first few minutes, haha, so the opening credits sees Tobey and Andrew returning only to have pianos dropped on them or something. Which I doubt they'll do but just giving you all historical precedent. One of the reasons why Alien 3 failed was that it basically amounted to a slap in the face to everyone who liked Cameron's sequel (which was incredibly popular and successful and influential in the year of that film's release).

One of the problems with people wanting to see their old favorites return in a multiverse context is that typically they're only there to validate the newest take on the character.

You're not getting SPIDER-MAN 4 or ASM 3 and the question is do you want to see your favorite take on the character possibly 'end' in a completely different context than the one you enjoyed? Once you get past the initial excitement there's the very real possibility that however you imagined their story playing out is more enjoyable than seeing it that way

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm pretty confident that we'll see Tobey and Andrew in the film, mind you. I just think it would be hilarious if that wasn't the case.

Agreed. To be honest, I actually would prefer them being absent ideally. What I mean is, I'd have preferred, platonically, that Spider-Man NWH be Tom Holland Peter's story dealing with the aftermath of the identity reveal and dealing with Jameson and so on by himself. I was never clamoring for a meeting of all three live-action movie Peters.

If Tobey and Andrew aren't in the movie, I'm going to be in a mood of sublime schadenfreude watching reddit and twitter lose their sh-t.

One of the problems with people wanting to see their old favorites return in a multiverse context is that typically they're only there to validate the newest take on the character.

Exactly. And that never works. The new guy has the stigma of needing validation and the people who like the old guy are miffed that to paraphase Luke Skywalker in TLJ, he doesn't unleash the Force and Lightsaber and whales on the First Order with one hand while slurping blue milk from another.

I mean that's kind of what TLJ and the Disney SW and so on was all about, and why it's become this big sadness.

You're not getting SPIDER-MAN 4 or ASM 3 and the question is do you want to see your favorite take on the character possibly 'end' in a completely different context than the one you enjoyed? Once you get past the initial excitement there's the very real possibility that however you imagined their story playing out is more enjoyable than seeing it that way

Right. I mean do they want Tobey and Andrew back if it means they get the Alien 3 treatment? People expected Alien 3 to continue where Aliens left off with Michael Biehn's character and Newt accompanying Ripley as "core cast" and the third movie came a decade afterwards, and that didn't satisfy anyone.

You had a similar issue with the Disney SW where people wanted the OT reunion but somehow in a manner that didn't undo the ending of ROTJ when given that the title of the franchise has "wars" in it, and shor tof a re-branding as "Star Peace" you weren't going to get that. It was inherent in the followup to undo ROTJ and so on and the the sequels despite some strengths here and there pleased no one.

Sony Pictures have set themselves up a big challenge because they need NWH to wrap up Tom Holland's Peter story (which is easy enough) and also provide a conclusion or epilogue or coda to Tobey-Peter and Andrew-Peter that'll satisfy people.

[Webhead]

One of the problems with people wanting to see their old favorites return in a multiverse context is that typically they're only there to validate the newest take on the character.

You're not getting SPIDER-MAN 4 or ASM 3 and the question is do you want to see your favorite take on the character possibly 'end' in a completely different context than the one you enjoyed? Once you get past the initial excitement there's the very real possibility that however you imagined their story playing out is more enjoyable than seeing it that way

Barring the cheap (but not that unlikely, given Holland's comments) death of Tobey!Spider-Man, I think it works in Sony's favour that the last installments of both previous franchises were contested. So there's this easy chance to improve on them or outright ignore the least liked aspects.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Barring the cheap (but not that unlikely, given Holland's comments) death of Tobey!Spider-Man, I think it works in Sony's favour that the last installments of both previous franchises were contested. So there's this easy chance to improve on them or outright ignore the least liked aspects.

Well nobody wants to see Tobey Maguire's Peter or Garfield's Peter die no matter how much SM-3 or TASM-2 crashed and burned. That would certainly be a pretty tough sell.

[primenumber101]

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[Revolutionary_Jack]

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Man they are making that scene carry a lot of water for this film.

By the way can anyone recognize this bridge? It's not one of the big bridges but if so I can't tell from this.

[Frontier]

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How many angles to this fight are there?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Not sure if TLJ is a good example to compare this film to. The best comparison to No Way Home is Into The Spider-Verse which featured an older jaded mentor of the classic hero like TLJ did, but one was well received by fans while the other wasn't.

Sony knows what a success ITSV was and Disney knows how controversial TLJ was (hence why they did damage control with The Rise of Skywalker). Both studios are more likely to base NWH off ITSV than off of TLJ.

There are also other factors at play, like the fact NWH isn't being done by any new team and Watts isn't a deconstruction-themed director like Rian Johnson is.

Well that's different because say what you will about Snyder, the entire film was always set up and planned on a Batman-Superman team-up and conflict.

It becoming a Justice League Origin story, and introducing Wonder Woman (which was announced in the lead-up to the film anyway) felt more CYA but even then the marketing basically revealed all the stuff in the film (i.e. Wonder Woman, Doomsday, even New Gods stuff i.e. the Omega logo in the sands). And it was all featured prominently just not executed very well.

I just mean in the sense the studio was very hands off and hush-hush about everything not in the trailer (fan reactions, etc), because they didn't have confidence in the product and assumed the hype would be enough to overcome its quality. Marvel and Sony would have to believe something similar to that (if Garfield and Maguire aren't in this) in order to be this hush-hush.

[Scott Taylor]

Well nobody wants to see Tobey Maguire's Peter or Garfield's Peter die no matter how much SM-3 or TASM-2 crashed and burned. That would certainly be a pretty tough sell.

I'd riot is Tobey's version were killed! And by riot I mean I'd go outside and kick a pine cone really, really hard!

Its ok if the Garfield version bites the dust.

[Jman27]

Anyone else thinks that we aren't going to really have that sixth sinister six member. Or at the very least not much screen time given to that character? I feel like that sixth member is Mysterio thru flashbacks?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'd riot is Tobey's version were killed! And by riot I mean I'd go outside and kick a pine cone really, really hard!

Its ok if the Garfield version bites the dust.

I prefer Tobey over Andrew but I think both sets of fans need to present a common front on this.

Not sure if TLJ is a good example to compare this film to. The best comparison to No Way Home is Into The Spider-Verse which featured an older jaded mentor of the classic hero like TLJ did, but one was well received by fans while the other wasn't.

TLJ presented Luke Skywalker as in actual Mark Hamill's Luke Skywalker from ANH-ROTJ and made him into a jaded mentor who contemplated murdering his nephew driving him to become a school shooter and alt-right Vader. The issue was that this story retroactively cast a negative light on the character arc from the earlier films which represent major real-estate in people's cultural memory.***

Whereas ITSV's Peter B. Parker wasn't really continuous with earlier versions of Peter, so nothing previously established was subverted nor was he the only Peter Parker in that story. I know fans projected as if he was Tobey's Peter and the movie allowed people to make that assumption but it also CYA and allowed people to take it or leave it. I think if he was voiced by Tobey Maguire and was directly continuous to that Peter, people might not have recieved that very well.

There are also other factors at play, like the fact NWH isn't being done by any new team and Watts isn't a deconstruction-themed director like Rian Johnson is.

1) I happen to like Rian Johnson as a director and would actually be pretty interested if he were to direct a Spider-Man movie. Preferably his own version rather than in continuity with anything previously established, lol. Ideally I'd like him to adapt Superior Foes of Spider-Man with Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Boomerang.

2) Jon Watts as a film-maker does have a jokey talking-down attitude to Spider-Man and the characters, so it's not like he wants to do the stories and characters straight. The major issue with MCU Spider-Man over the last two movies has always been trying to "update" or ground Spider-Man and try and sell him as if this were the most believable one yet, when in many ways he isn't. Mo.re importantly Jon Watts has zero personality as a director unlike Johnson.



*** FWIW, I do think TLJ is a good movie and it's the best of the Disney SW movies which still means it's not as good as the George Lucas movies of the OT and the PT of course. I think TLJ should ideally be seen and appreciated as a non-canon extravaganza like Kingdom Come was for the DC Universe. Hamill's Old Luke character as a performance is a total delight even if in narrative terms it doesn't work. The problem with TLJ is the problem with doing sequels to ROTJ in the first place. The franchise title is Star Wars and not Star Peace, and audiences simultaneously wanted more Star Wars and a reunion and continuation of the OT, without understanding that asking for both means undoing the original films. With all that as a given, Johnson made a compelling but essentially incoherent film whose major contribution is ensuring Adam Driver has f--k you money.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I get all that, but I still think comparisons to TLJ are not entirely fitting. A massive difference between the two is that Spider-Man is a serialized superhero designed to go on forever and Luke Skywalker was not that in the context of the OT. Doing a follow-up to Raimi Peter and/or Webb Peter, whether through a Spider-Verse film or Spider-Man 4/TASM 3 or a new comic book, will always make more sense conceptually than bringing the OT characters back. Conceptually it will always feel more normal and natural than bringing back the OT characters, Indiana Jones, Terminator, or any movie-first iconic character we can name.

Spider-Man in general will never have that sequelitis problem that we find in many other film franchises. But furthermore, in the case of Tobey and Andrew's Spider-Men specifically, both of them had their franchises ended prematurely. Tobey's Peter was finishing college and just got engaged to MJ, Andrew's Peter was still a college kid. It's not at all like with the OT where they wrapped up Luke's story and didn't go back to it for decades because there was no need to. There were plans for a Spider-Man 4 and a TASM3 immediately after their previous films but both of them got canned. And we are returning to those continuities within a shorter time frame than with Star Wars (kinda like we did with DOFP) while both Tobey and Andrew are still fairly young and believable as active Spider-Men.

To me this film looks like Spider-Verse mixed with Days of Future Past and Endgame.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I get all that, but I still think comparisons to TLJ are not entirely fitting. A massive difference between the two is that Spider-Man is a serialized superhero designed to go on forever and Luke Skywalker was not that in the context of the OT. Doing a follow-up to Raimi Peter and/or Webb Peter, whether through a Spider-Verse film or Spider-Man 4/TASM 3 or a new comic book, will always make more sense conceptually than bringing the OT characters back. Conceptually it will always feel more normal and natural than bringing back the OT characters, Indiana Jones, Terminator, or any movie-first iconic character we can name.

True.

I would add that people wanting to see more of Tobey Maguire Spider-Man is closer to wanting to see Mark Hamill's Luke and the OT characters, in their most familiar platonic form. That's different from wanting to see more Spider-Man.

[fin5]

Anyone else thinks that we aren't going to really have that sixth sinister six member. Or at the very least not much screen time given to that character? I feel like that sixth member is Mysterio thru flashbacks?

Maybe its Venom.he is part of the MCU now