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  1. #16
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    I am not surprised. Kind of disappointed, especially for Blade, but not surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I guess I'm the only dude in here who likes Feige's "family-friendly" approach to superhero filmmaking. I never was interested in gore, nudity and course language in comic book movies. So I'm cool with this decision.
    I don't think anyone is against a family friendly approach - I think the issue is more the lack of variety. I think the genre, any genre, is healthiest when there's a wide range of styles, tones, and ratings.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I am not surprised. Kind of disappointed, especially for Blade, but not surprised.



    I don't think anyone is against a family friendly approach - I think the issue is more the lack of variety. I think the genre, any genre, is healthiest when there's a wide range of styles, tones, and ratings.
    There are lots of good R rated cartoons, but not from Disney animation. There are lots of good R rated superhero movies, but not from Marvel. There is nothing wrong, and an awful lot healthy, about a brand staying within what it does well.

  3. #18
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    There are lots of good R rated cartoons, but not from Disney animation. There are lots of good R rated superhero movies, but not from Marvel. There is nothing wrong, and an awful lot healthy, about a brand staying within what it does well.
    Yes and no - many of the R rated films were Marvel - just not the MCU. Deadpool, Blade, Punisher, Logan. With Disney getting all these properties back, that variety has naturally shrunk - I don't find that a healthy change. Sure, there's nothing wrong with staying "on brand", but they've absorbed the other brands that were providing all the contrasts!

  4. #19
    Incredible Member basbash99's Avatar
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    tbh i'd be fine with Deadpool 3 being PG-13. I think a PG-13 Blade could still be great, but i'm not someone who really requires a ton of gore and profanity in marvel/dc comic movies. others may have different opinions of course

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    Drug use, I think, is the only viable reason for one of these films to have an R rating. Captain America is, in essence, the product of drug use. Goblin formula, many goblin weapons are based on drugs. They tone it down so they don't an R rating, but would it really be a bad thing for Marvel to buck Disney on the issue the way they bucked the CCA in the late 60s in Spider-Man? Tell a good, poignant story that is difficult and challenging, and informative, to the audience.

    But the same argument doesn't work if you start taking Marvel into George C. Scott Hardcore territory or 80s bloody action flicks

    The super serum in FA was used for good, it was done to make Steve a hero. it was not drugs in the sense of drug abuse. Us viewers were not meant to see that at all. it was beyond tond down.

    Goblin in Spiderman 1 was more of a scientist, who wanted to push the limits of science. Norma fell more into the mad scientist category than a drug abuser.

    Neither actions of drug abuse is similarly written to Charles Xavier, where it is more clear, Xavier is self- addicted to drugs and he abuses it by free will because he is depressed and also to get high. You also see Xavier using the needles and syringes by himself. it was flat out the mutant version heroin. that was not toned down, it right there in your face because the story demanded it. That should and could have made the movie R but it stayed pg 13. I have this feeling that had deadpool 1 come out before DOFP, DOFP would have gotten R.

    Also can I also say all three movies were not Disney related. I don't see MCU writing the goblin part to any spiderman movie now and FA was in the beginning phase of marvel, there are a lot of things about FA and Iron Man 1, that will not happen today and DOFP is just a different category all together.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yes and no - many of the R rated films were Marvel - just not the MCU. Deadpool, Blade, Punisher, Logan. With Disney getting all these properties back, that variety has naturally shrunk - I don't find that a healthy change. Sure, there's nothing wrong with staying "on brand", but they've absorbed the other brands that were providing all the contrasts!
    I also have no problem either with staying on brand but if they keep buying all this other property, they have to extend the brand, I said this already on the Snyder cut thread. the rating of a movie should be for the director to decide, since the line can be blurred.

    whoever directs any film relating to XMEN, BLADE, PUNISHER even in PG 13 will be sticking to the perimeters of Fiege, that is going to be hard when that director already knows what has already been done before. it can become too much of a false pretence.

    Also what is family-friendly by today's standard? why is it much lower than the 90s and 00s? Did deadpool 2 even have nudity? how different was pg 13 deadpool 2 to the r version?
    Last edited by Castle; 02-24-2021 at 05:56 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yes and no - many of the R rated films were Marvel - just not the MCU. Deadpool, Blade, Punisher, Logan. With Disney getting all these properties back, that variety has naturally shrunk - I don't find that a healthy change. Sure, there's nothing wrong with staying "on brand", but they've absorbed the other brands that were providing all the contrasts!
    That isn't the case tho as poster before mention, There is still contrast ,You have the Boys, You still have Umbrella academy, You got Bright Burn, You got Invincible, You have Jupiter's Legacy ,You have some DC movies, You have Titans etc . We have plenty of choice for R rated superheroes movies / Tv shows and because Superhero movies have become so popular just like in comics we have deconstruction of the Superhero genre in response to things PG movies, So you are getting the different stuff as well and will keep getting other stuff. Marvel going in one lane creates a lane for other stuff to get noticed.

    And be lets clear Blade 3 and Wolverine 1 & 2 were PG13, New Mutants was PG13, All the X-men movies are PG13, All the Spiderman movies are PG13, Venom is PG13, Daredevil and Electra were PG13. Suicide Squad is PG13, Justice League, Man of Steel, BatmanV Superman are PG13, Nolan Batman movies were PG13 .Bloodshot was PG 13 .It is not a Disney thing and we in reality are talking about Blade 1 & 2, Logan, Deadpool 1 & 2 , The Punisher & Punisher Warzone as R Rated superhero movies, Throw in Harley Quinn and Joker if you want as well. We are talking about 9 movies, The vast majority of movies are PG13. Lets not act like R rated movies in superhero genre is a common or really necessary thing to tell the stories in the genre. Those that choose to do so fine but you can tell mature stories with out the R rating.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 02-25-2021 at 07:12 AM.

  7. #22
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    It’s no big loss to me.

    There’s only a handful of characters and stories who might need a R rating to work and talented film makers could probably find ways to make them work under PG13 guidelines anyway.

  8. #23
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That isn't the case tho as poster before mention, There is still contrast ,You have the Boys, You still have Umbrella academy, You got Bright Burn, You got Invincible, You have Jupiter's Legacy ,You have some DC movies, You have Titans etc . We have plenty of choice for R rated superheroes movies / Tv shows and because Superhero movies have become so popular just like in comics we have deconstruction of the Superhero genre in response to things PG movies, So you are getting the different stuff as well and will keep getting other stuff. Marvel going in one lane creates a lane for other stuff to get noticed.
    I don't even know what Umbrella Academy is about, Bright Burn was a small film most people missed, Invincible is an animated series and a lot of adults don't watch cartoons, I've never even heard of Jupiter's Legacy (and frankly I saw the first season of Titans - less said the better...). Your best example is The Boys, and even then I still don't know how much of an audience Amazon has vs Netflix. Yes, the content is there, technically, but it's much more...niche and spread out. You really got to look for them, be a nerd to know they even exist. It's like, how many people actually know Super or Defendor exist?

    There's less contrast, and while yes some still exists, the bulk of the very minor contrasts that pop up are cheaper, smaller, independent things that slip under the radar for many various reasons. That wasn't the case when FOX still existed in this space, or Blade was...wherever Blade was...and ditto Punisher...

    What's the point of contrast if most people will never find out they exist?

    And be lets clear Blade 3 and Wolverine 1 & 2 were PG13, New Mutants was PG13, All the X-men movies are PG13, All the Spiderman movies are PG13, Venom is PG13, Daredevil and Electra were PG13. Suicide Squad is PG13, Justice League, Man of Steel, BatmanV Superman are PG13, Nolan Batman movies were PG13 .Bloodshot was PG 13 .It is not a Disney thing and we in reality are talking about Blade 1 & 2, Logan, Deadpool 1 & 2 , The Punisher & Punisher Warzone as R Rated superhero movies, Throw in Harley Quinn and Joker if you want as well. We are talking about 9 movies, The vast majority of movies are PG13. Lets not act like R rated movies in superhero genre is a common or really necessary thing to tell the stories in the genre. Those that choose to do so fine but you can tell mature stories with out the R rating.
    First, that's a lot of bad movies listed...
    Second, never said it was just a Disney thing. But here's the thing - by your own math, there's 9 R superhero movies - and 7 were Marvel properties! Also, that's my point! They aren't common! That's the thing, the crux of my argument! If something is rare enough as is, the solution isn't to make it more so. There's not much rarity here, not much variety, so making it more and more homogeneous is the problem. You think it isn't a big deal because it was never a big part of the market to begin with - I'm saying that it is a big deal because it's such a small market as is.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 02-25-2021 at 07:12 AM.

  9. #24
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    Anyways my general point is mainstream movies is generally going to be PG13 and rated R stuff is always going to be the outlier even from the companies that make rated R movies. Plus Blade 1 was low budget, Joker was low budget, Punisher was low budget, Deadpool 1 is low budget. Dismissing the other content because they are not from Marvel or DC is the mistake.

    And these movies are getting bigger budgets than you think see Netflix movies like Old Guard, Outside of the wire, or Project Power and TV shows like Umbrella Academy , the upcoming Mark Millar Jupiter's Legacy or Boys on Amazon( it had ratings comparable to stuff Disney or Netflix is doing ), etc. The big movie companies aren't interest in real making R content other than occasionally and when they do the budget is small. Marvel's Rated R output came when it was a pretty much indie studio with only small project. Sony with the perfect character to be rated R choose it to be PG13 in Venom, DC with perfect characters to be rated R in Suicide Squad choose PG13, Fox with the perfect character to be rated R choose PG13. Your options were always going to be limited.

    The independent/non big two stuff out put makes up for Marvel not putting out stuff imo,So yeah Upgrade, Code 8, Glass, Fast Color, Chronicle ,Looper, Lucy, Kin, Sleight,Mortal etc Yeah you have go looking for superheroish movies outside of Marvel/DC. I don't think options are really that limited today especially with streaming wars.

    PS-It took willpower not list Jiu Jitsu with Frank Grillo, Tony Jaa and Nicolas Cage and Archenemy with Joe Manganiello the first time I typed this
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 02-25-2021 at 07:13 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    You should really read the stuff you linke to to "prove" your bias. It might counter it otherwise.
    But that would mean you can get past it.
    And even if they had announced making more R-Rated movies you would just do your "But it is only Disney R" rants from a few weeks ago again.
    Honestly what bias? LOL.

    Predicting something then proven correct about it, is not even fun anymore because telling people I told you so, can be more hurtful than the later and I dont want to see anyone get hurt.

    I predicted this from the onset, seeing it happen does not make me feel anymore better. it just strikes more curiosity on how toned down will it go?

    they will unlikely not announce more R, Fiege is only trying to save face saying that. at this point we would be lucky if they allow Reynolds to promote the movie as part of the MCU or even give him the budget and marketing.

    What is clear here is that, Marvel wants to make this R stuff quietly go away.

    Please stop implying I am bias , when All I have done is given a logical analysis. Many people that did not want xmen to go to disney, said so for a reason because we see this coming.



    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That isn't the case tho as poster before mention, There is still contrast ,You have the Boys, You still have Umbrella academy, You got Bright Burn, You got Invincible, You have Jupiter's Legacy ,You have some DC movies, You have Titans etc . We have plenty of choice for R rated superheroes movies / Tv shows and because Superhero movies have become so popular just like in comics we have deconstruction of the Superhero genre in response to things PG movies, So you are getting the different stuff as well and will keep getting other stuff. Marvel going in one lane creates a lane for other stuff to get noticed.

    And be lets clear Blade 3 and Wolverine 1 & 2 were PG13, New Mutants was PG13, All the X-men movies are PG13, All the Spiderman movies are PG13, Venom is PG13, Daredevil and Electra were PG13. Suicide Squad is PG13, Justice League, Man of Steel, BatmanV Superman are PG13, Nolan Batman movies were PG13 .Bloodshot was PG 13 .It is not a Disney thing and we in reality are talking about Blade 1 & 2, Logan, Deadpool 1 & 2 , The Punisher & Punisher Warzone as R Rated superhero movies, Throw in Harley Quinn and Joker if you want as well. We are talking about 9 movies, The vast majority of movies are PG13. Lets not act like R rated movies in superhero genre is a common or really necessary thing to tell the stories in the genre. Those that choose to do so fine but you can tell mature stories with out the R rating.

    Anyways this should be my last post in this thread because now the Disney bias BS is going to come out, Talking about how one PG13 is different from another PG13 or how Disney R isn't a real R or some other nonsense
    .
    I wonder why some can still call this nonsense when it has been proven true that we cannot equate some PG 13 to others.

    The first set of Spiderman movies is not similar to the new ones. this is fact because the new ones toned down violence even it all got PG 13.

    DOFP, X2, First Class are not similar to any MCU PG 13. This is pretty much fact because it was a big deal that one went up on disney plus and people were shocked it did not get censorship, including Hugh Jackman himself. How many F bombs did first class have to a PG 13 MCU? X2 violence is not found in any MCU PG 13 movie, above all it their story arcs. You canot equate how Xavier uses drugs to any MCU PG 13 film.

    Saying it is nonsense, it's not going to make any less sense to people. We already see this and this is why we question of what is family-friendly?
    In fact let me just leave it factually with this video. It's hard to dismiss this as nonsense.



    This cartoon may be PG 13 or U. There is more content here that is covered than Deadpool 1 than it is R.

    Looper makes a lot of nonsense videos but this is not one.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-25-2021 at 05:45 AM.

  11. #26
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Blade 1 was low budget, Joker was low budget, Punisher was low budget, Deadpool 1 is low budget. Dismissing the other content because they are not from Marvel or DC is the mistake.
    And comparing those low budget films to truly "indie" movies that won't sniff the promotion/advertising/theatrical distribution/etc is also a mistake. The other content, largely, aren't going to be made by the companies or studios to get those things out there in a big way.

    And these movies are getting bigger budgets than you think see Old Guard, Outside of the wire, or Project Power movies on Netflix or Umbrella Academy or the upcoming Jupiter's Legacy, See the Boys on Amazon, etc.
    I heard of Old Guard and Project Power - because I actively looked up all recent/upcoming superhero movies. In a world were I'm not so diligent a nerd? Wouldn't know they exist. There's no push or promotion for getting the news out really - it relies on you looking it up, or more likely having whatever streaming service this comes out on and the algorithm showing it to you. You have to "luck" into it. It's just content to make sure there's always **** on Netflix you haven't seen yet. Yeah, chances are a lot of people can still see it, but it's not like a theatrical movie - a MCU release never "sneaks up" on you. Logan everyone knew. Joker everyone knew. Old Guard a selection of a certain audience of Netflix knew.

    The Boys had a promotion you were aware of outside of being subscribed to Amazon. So it can be done. But with FOX/Sony/etc. big studio it was inevitable you'd hear about it.

    The big companies aren't interest in real making R content other a couple on occasion and when they do the budget is small. Marvel's Rated R output came when it was a pretty much indie studio with small project. Sony with the perfect character to be rated R choose PG13 in Venom, DC with perfect characters to be rated R in Suicide Squad choose PG13, Fox with the perfect character to be rated R choose PG13. Your options were always going to be limited.
    True, and you're right. I'm bemoaning the fact that it is more limited now.
    Again, I think the point isn't connecting - what I'm saying is, that yes R movies are and were always going to be limited, yes they were always going to have smaller budgets, yes they aren't a necessity to telling certain superhero characters and stories, yes there will still be the odd R rated superhero movie from this or that odd place over time - but but, with all that being true, it can still suck that now there will be even fewer of them with smaller budgets and a harder time of finding an audience. You're right, but I'm not debating your correct points, I'm debating that those points doesn't make it better, doesn't make it not a loss.

    Much of the R rated content was non-MCU Marvel, and now that that's gone, there's naturally just going to be less, especially of a certain quality and certain accessibility, than there otherwise would be, and there's not a real reason to be happy about that.

    The independent/no big two stuff out put makes up for Marvel not putting out stuff imo, Besides Hellboy 3, Punisher 1 & 2, Harley Quinn weren't good movies, So it is not like big studio guarantee these movies will be good. So yeah Upgrade, Code 8, Glass, Fast Color, Chronicle ,Looper, Lucy, Kin, Sleight,Mortal etc Yeah you have go looking for superheroish movies outside of Marvel/DC. I don't think options are really that limited today especially with streaming wars.
    True - but, I wasn't arguing that a R rating was a guarantee of a good movie? I was arguing that a variety over all was a good thing. There's a lot of crap PG 14 films too, but no one would argue getting rid of most PG14 superhero films was no big deal. It isn't about the quality of the rating, but having more options.

    Most of those "superheroish" movies are heavy on the ish. I'm talking about straight up superhero movies, not movies that borrow some elements or are superhero adjacent.
    Although I do need to watch more of these. Most of that list I read reviews of and they seemed kind of iffy. Like "Not really superhero movies but we're including them in lists because there's so few non-Marvel/DC superhero movies!" which isn't really what I'm looking for. I like when they were the superhero genre on their sleeves rather than trying to obfuscate it, but maybe I should give them more of a chance...

    PS-It took willpower not list Jiu Jitsu with Frank Grillo, Tony Jaa and Nicolas Cage and Archenemy with Joe Manganiello the first time I typed this
    Archenemy is that new one were a bum might be a superhero from another dimension who lost his powers - or he might only be a violent bum right? Saw the trailer for that.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 02-25-2021 at 07:13 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I don't even know what Umbrella Academy is about, Bright Burn was a small film most people missed, Invincible is an animated series and a lot of adults don't watch cartoons, I've never even heard of Jupiter's Legacy (and frankly I saw the first season of Titans - less said the better...). Your best example is The Boys, and even then I still don't know how much of an audience Amazon has vs Netflix. Yes, the content is there, technically, but it's much more...niche and spread out. You really got to look for them, be a nerd to know they even exist. It's like, how many people actually know Super or Defendor exist?
    .

    I never equate online shows with cinema blockbusters: cool:


    First, that's a lot of bad movies listed...
    Second, never said it was just a Disney thing. But here's the thing - by your own math, there's 9 R superhero movies - and 7 were Marvel properties! Also, that's my point! They aren't common! That's the thing, the crux of my argument! If something is rare enough as is, the solution isn't to make it more so. There's not much rarity here, not much variety, so making it more and more homogeneous is the problem. You think it isn't a big deal because it was never a big part of the market to begin with - I'm saying that it is a big deal because it's such a small market as is.
    The Wolverine is PG but this this made the cut. this should not be PG anymore.



    We cannot equate wolverine's PG to other comic films, I also remember wolverine taking a bath naked and the violence last fight

    Honestly, I remember when someone once saying, they don't care what is in the movie as long as it gets the R, until I pointed pout the content has to matter because people can just waste R. I said this because I saw the signs that deadpool and even pg 13 xmen was heading that way.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 02-25-2021 at 07:15 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post

    Archenemy is that new one were a bum might be a superhero from another dimension who lost his powers - or he might only be a violent bum right? Saw the trailer for that.
    Yes that one

    I get your point where I disagree is that the Market was never really that strong and the things you are depending on the be "R" a lot could have easily been PG13 like Blade, Wolverine, Harley Quinn and Deadpool. But I guess we agree to disagree

  14. #29
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Yes that one

    I get your point where I disagree is that the Market was never really that strong and the things you are depending on the be "R" a lot could have easily been PG13 like Blade, Wolverine, Harley Quinn and Deadpool. But I guess we agree to disagree
    Yeah, but it isn't your points where we disagree. Yes, the market was never that strong, and yes those films could have be pg13. Where we disagree is, whether that matters. I think this is a loss despite those things being true, you think those things being true means it isn't a loss. And yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that part of it.

  15. #30
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I never equate online shows with cinema blockbusters: cool:
    Same personally, but I realize that my opinion is less and less relevant on that point - more and more people are going the way of the streaming 9-13 episode miniseries is king train, to the point I don't try and argue it any more.


    The Wolverine is PG but this this made the cut. this should not be PG anymore.



    We cannot equate wolverine's PG to other comic films, I also remember wolverine taking a bath naked and the violence last fight

    Honestly, I remember when someone once saying, they don't care what is in the movie as long as it gets the R, until I pointed pout the content has to matter because people can just waste R. I said this because I saw the signs that deadpool and even pg 13 xmen was heading that way.
    Both Deadpool movies earned their Rs with abandon and glee. And I expect that while it is low on Disney's priority and they just want to put it out there to finish the trilogy and get away from it, that Deadpool 3 will earn it too.

    Then in like 10 years I see the MCU rebooting Deadpool for pg13.

    I don't think Deadpool 3 will be a part of the MCU, despite being owned by Disney and made by Marvel Studios.

    To think that less variety is a big problem means saying disney is not acting right is part of the problem here, there is just no substance to this argument.

    Disney going from.... we are excited to have Deadpool in 2018 after the fox/disney deal closed to we only want 1 r Deadpool movie in 2021, may have robbed some fans the wrong way.
    I am not going to really get into Disney with you, I think we fundamentally disagree on at least some if not most of that house of mouse debate - and certainly you are more passionate on your viewpoint of it than I am mine. But I can agree, as a fan of the prior Blade films at least, that yes this announcement is disheartening - even if like you I knew the odds of the MCU going R beyond one final Deadpool film was nonexistent to none (I can't call it slim to none, since slim was too much to expect).

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