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  1. #61
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    True that you can do violence 100% in a PG films, However it is down to the believability of the violence. MCU violence has never been all that believable or convincing, I think this is the reason it's never really brought up say in comparison to a wolverine film or a batman film, also it's a scenario of less is more or more is less. for a lot of 90s cartoons, we didn't expect them to have violence, so when it did, it was worth pointing out of the good risks it took, while for some live action comic books, because the violence is so cartoony or unrealistic, some people get a bit disappointed because we did not expect things to be so toned down.



    Yeah I think is is more complex, graphic violence is down to the plot of the film, that may need it or not. What will Kevin Feige do about an XMEN story like the Mutant Massacre? even if he makes it PG, It will still have to be far beyond any PG he has done with MCU movies.

    Also see the past drug use issue in Spiderman 1, DOFP or First Avenger. Many comic fans are not kids, they appreciate genuine mature themes in their movies because they are already used it, even in PG or R,

    Mandalorian is not Blade or X-Men, its not like the original star wars films either like Episode 3 or Episode 5, Some parts of those movies will not be found today.
    Well they don't make PG films. Also other then you whos saying the violence is unbelievable? Wolverine action was bad for almost 20years before Logan. The best action scenes in any Xmem film was nightcrawler in X2 and or Quicksikver(Time in a bottle) and they were Pg13. It was cool to see Logan tearing people apart in Logan but the action itself wasn't especially great. When people are naming great Action scene from CBMs I've never heard anyone mention something from Logan. I'm not against R and the rating enhanced the story they were telling in Logan. There are equally great story's that can be told in Pg13. All depends on the script and what they are going for. If Marvel said Blade and a future Wolverine film were Rated R I'd be excited but if they say Pg 13 I'm still excited. The script determines the rating that's needed. Pusniher is the one character that would make take pause if he was Pg 13. Mostly because the brutality is half of what I enjoy about the character.

  2. #62
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Well they don't make PG films. Also other then you whos saying the violence is unbelievable? Wolverine action was bad for almost 20years before Logan. The best action scenes in any Xmem film was nightcrawler in X2 and or Quicksikver(Time in a bottle) and they were Pg13. It was cool to see Logan tearing people apart in Logan but the action itself wasn't especially great. When people are naming great Action scene from CBMs I've never heard anyone mention something from Logan. I'm not against R and the rating enhanced the story they were telling in Logan. There are equally great story's that can be told in Pg13. All depends on the script and what they are going for. If Marvel said Blade and a future Wolverine film were Rated R I'd be excited but if they say Pg 13 I'm still excited. The script determines the rating that's needed. Pusniher is the one character that would make take pause if he was Pg 13. Mostly because the brutality is half of what I enjoy about the character.
    I already posted the first clip of the wolverine atomic bomb scene that could have earned the movie R, would not call that bad either compared to????Also right from the first movie in 2000, it was well established that wolverine was savage violent character, the violence is not limited to wolverine, the movies in general had realistic violence because the director made his movies very grounded compared to MCU. X-Men was gritty, their R movies later came as no surprise.

    Traditionally the Quicksilver and Nightcrawler action scenes action was more about using stylistic special VFX than physical violence, that hardly's count here apart from Special VFX vs generic CGI. a better argument for these action scenes would be Wolverine vs Lady Deathstrike and Future Sentinels vs X-men.


    X23 first time slashing people gets mentioned, although this is only a step from the way kids are portrayed in the past films. but more importantly, that it becomes disposable.... Logan R was more about the story, characters arcs and world building, Remove X23 story from Logan, and the R rating is affected to some extent.


    those that think Logan was a better movie than DOFP part of the reason for that is because Logan told a dystopian story slightly better and the R helped that alot, even if the there was not that much difference between DOFP and Logan in violence and story.

    Yes, it depends on the script they are going for, reason I also said Feige will not be able to run with his light hearted formula for long with Blade/X-men, which is the reason why MCU movies tends to have cartoony sort of violence to the grounded violence for X-Men/Blade , Fiege's does not think in that kind of territory. This is just another throw away proof we need.

    when people talk about light hearted, it was always more about the jokes, things like cinematography and art direction mattered. which is not iron clad to PG and R, however it is down to what a director personally wants to. watch the behind scenes of Logan. you can tell James Mangold was his own boss.

    Last edited by Castle; 02-27-2021 at 06:20 AM.

  3. #63
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    What the what?

    .
    Birds of Prey was a flop. it was an unnecessary R movie that made it flop even harder.

    https://twitter.com/Brock8000/status...81091541045249
    Guess we'll see when the movie comes out, since all that the filmmakers have said is that they want to keep what worked from the first movie and seem to be trying to build the sequel for that format over shooting for a specific rating.
    This is very contradictory, the film makers opinions are not relevant any more because Feige has said unlikely no R. if a film maker does not like that, he will quit and Kevin will hire someone else. he has done it before for different other reasons.

    there is nothing they can do. they are not the boss. At this point, film makers will be lucky if they can sneak in some of the best PG Violence we have seen from the past movies.


    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    I don't know. I will say I will give marvel the benefit of the doubt. They have pulled everything else off so I am not going they can't do a pg-13 blade. Part of it is preconceived notions on what it will be based on the past movies. But that being said I don't see Marvel doing this if they don't think they can do it in a way thats good. So I guess we will see.
    I think everything marvel has pulled off, never got any challenge to pull off. Also if you look at other marvel downside like Ultron, Spiderman and Iron Man sequels, Marvel has not passed the test, the reason why is because they toned down what should not have been. I don't think it will work here with their blade and x-men movies.


    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    No one wants something like Punisher Warzone but I miss stuff like The Crow, Dredd and hope The Suicide Squad will become something special.
    the first suicide squad movie was pg, now it is is R for the 2nd movie. I think this a very natural step for movies, if this does well it may give sony more courage to make Venom R.


    Also it will open the doors for the Mobius series, it's almost kind of hilarious to think Mobius now has more chance at R than Blade himself. it's more hilarious to me than a wannabee X-Men/GOTG Pg 13 disney film that Kevin is going to end up doing.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-27-2021 at 06:20 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Birds of Prey was a flop. it was an unnecessary R movie that made it flop even harder.



    This is very contradictory, the film makers opinions are not relevant any more because Feige has said unlikely no R. if a film maker does not like that, he will quit and Kevin will hire someone else. he has done it before for different other reasons.

    there is nothing they can do. they are not the boss. At this point, film makers will be lucky if they can sneak in some of the best PG Violence we have seen from the past movies.




    I think everything marvel has pulled off, never got any challenge to pull off. Also if you look at other marvel downside like Ultron, Spiderman and Iron Man sequels, Marvel has not passed the test, the reason why is because they toned down what should not have been. I don't think it will work here with their blade and x-men movies.




    the first suicide squad movie was pg, now it is is R for the 2nd movie. I think this a very natural step for movies, if this does well it may give sony more courage to make Venom R.


    Also it will open the doors for the Mobius series, it's almost kind of hilarious to think Mobius now has more chance at R than Blade himself. it's more hilarious to me than a wannabee X-Men/GOTG Pg 13 disney film that Kevin is going to end up doing.

    You can argue that in your opinion Marvel hasn't pulled everything they have done off critically. But there really is no argument that financially they have pulled everything off. They haven't had a flop financially on any movie. Maybe the Hulk movie. Everything else has made money. Even the first Captain American and Thor films. And since those first movies, everything has been money. They haven't had a mistep financially at all. You may not like the movies, I can't help ya. But its like arguing about Disney animation. You might not like what they are doing but many people do. Blade won't flop. There is no evidence it will. It might flop in your mind, but thats not relevant.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    You can argue that in your opinion Marvel hasn't pulled everything they have done off critically. But there really is no argument that financially they have pulled everything off. They haven't had a flop financially on any movie. Maybe the Hulk movie. Everything else has made money. Even the first Captain American and Thor films. And since those first movies, everything has been money. They haven't had a mistep financially at all. You may not like the movies, I can't help ya. But its like arguing about Disney animation. You might not like what they are doing but many people do. Blade won't flop. There is no evidence it will. It might flop in your mind, but thats not relevant.
    I dont know if any MCU movie has ever flopped. so I cannot say anything about that. But we are not talking about the money anymore but the content of these films that secures their ratings.


    The money issue was already laid to rest. R movies can do 700m-1 billion.A Disney MCU R movie should be able to do 1.2 billion.


    The least Fiege can do here is not to leave Ryan alone. You know even Fox did not have that much fate in the first film. Ryan did everything himself, he should have the backing of disney this time for part 3, even if they don't like R.

  6. #66
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I always assumed Deadpool was going to be a special case.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I always assumed Deadpool was going to be a special case.
    Could be because Deadpool grew into what it was.

    However There was nothing in Kevin Fiege's track record that implied Deadpool will be a special case. Logically I always made it clear, Fiege was already struggling to use PG 13 in an unlimited sense, You cannot be struggling with that then just magically start making R movies.

    I know you complain about spiderman tony clone, but a bigger issue with holland spiderman is how unfairly kid friendly the entire thing is and that is PG. The same PG of the earlier films with Norman Osborn and his drug abuse bipolar issues, which was far from some kid friendly plotline.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-27-2021 at 11:45 AM.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    I understand it from a business stand point ( they want as many people as possible to see their films) but some characters in Marvel lore definitely deserve to be more mature and R rated . If not R rated at least make them MA rated like the Netflix shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Punisher, Luke Cage. It sucks the new Blade reboot will be PG-13. Blade is a character that SHOULD be rated R like Deadpool.
    I agree some characters in Marvel belong in the R-rated world. But Disney's world is strictly PG-13. So I think Deadpool will be the only exception Feige makes. And I said, I'm personally fine with that. I never watched Blade, Deadpool or Punisher so I'm not sure how mature they got in their movies. For me, I don't enjoy watching blood and guts in my movies and shows (superhero or not). Clearly Disney likes making money, so they won't mess with their very successful formula.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Even if it were for everyone, sometimes you just want something different here and there - but the MCU is becoming more and more of the market. I get why for Disney, but it's still kind of crappy...
    Variety is the spice of life, for sure. But Disney doesn't like its products to be TOO hot, though. I doubt Disney will ever make R-rated movies on the regular.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Variety is the spice of life, for sure. But Disney doesn't like its products to be TOO hot, though. I doubt Disney will ever make R-rated movies on the regular.
    If you want hard stuff, don't go to Disney or Marvel. Look to WB, Hellboy, other studios. People need to know what they can expect from a brand.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    If you want hard stuff, don't go to Disney or Marvel. Look to WB, Hellboy, other studios. People need to know what they can expect from a brand.
    Except Blade, Deadpool, Logan, X-Men, Punisher and even Spiderman are all Marvel. it is Disney that should be adapting them not the other way around.

  12. #72
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Except Blade, Deadpool, Logan, X-Men, Punisher and even Spiderman are all Marvel. it is Disney that should be adapting them not the other way around.
    No, they have the right way around. It's your expectations that are wrong-headed

  13. #73
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Except Blade, Deadpool, Logan, X-Men, Punisher and even Spiderman are all Marvel. it is Disney that should be adapting them not the other way around.
    The owner of the IP should not be "Adapting..." to anything.

    Having the say over it is baked into owning it.

  14. #74
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    No, they have the right way around. It's your expectations that are wrong-headed
    Yeah, it's not my expectations. I used to read their comics, I saw many of their cartoons and I have already seen a lot of their other movies.

    what is wrongly expected is to scale down or watered down what should not be.

    LOL..We should not have to lower our expectations when we know the source material never asked for it.

  15. #75
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Yeah, it's not my expectations. I used to read their comics, I saw many of their cartoons and I have already seen a lot of their other movies.

    what is wrongly expected is to scale down or watered down what should not be.

    LOL..We should not have to lower our expectations when we know the source material never asked for it.
    No one should have to lower their expectations. We should all embrace the challenge to expand our expectations.

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