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  1. #31
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yeah, but it isn't your points where we disagree. Yes, the market was never that strong, and yes those films could have be pg13. Where we disagree is, whether that matters. I think this is a loss despite those things being true, you think those things being true means it isn't a loss. And yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that part of it.
    Are we sure the market was not that strong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._R-rated_films

    The first 40 films on the list made almost 400 million worldwide.

    Matrix franchise was the closest we have to superhero blockbuster and the sequel made 700m back in 2003.

    The idea the market was not that strong I find it false. I think it is more about trying to rewrite history to make up for lack of variety and risk taking that we had so easily.

    What Deadpool did was remind people what R can do. Joker ran with it to get over the Billion mark.

    For a market that some are saying was not that strong. Joker and Deadpool were more financially successful than the PG 13 movies comic movie. In fact Deadpool and Logan were already grossing more than the PG 13 XMEN films even if I buy the theory that the pg 13 movies were already burning out after DOFP.

    We can all agree to disagree but like Brad Raffensperger once said to Donald Trump about his election loss in Georgia. Numbers don't lie.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-25-2021 at 06:31 AM.

  2. #32
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Are we sure the market was not that strong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._R-rated_films

    The first 40 films on the list made almost 400 million worldwide.

    Matrix franchise was the closest we have to superhero blockbuster and the sequel made 700m back in 2003.

    The idea the market was not that strong I find it false. I think it is more about trying to rewrite history to make up for lack of variety and risk taking that we had so easily.

    What Deadpool did was remind people what R can do. Joker ran with it to get over the Billion mark.

    For a market that some are saying was not that strong. Joker and Deadpool were more financially successful than the PG 13 movies comic movie. In fact Deadpool and Logan were already grossing more than the PG 13 XMEN films even if I buy the theory that the pg 13 movies were already burning out.

    We can all agree to disagree but like Brad Raffensperger once said to Donald Trump about his election loss in Georgia. Numbers don't lie.
    Hmm...that's a damn good point. Still, not the point I was really debating or trying to get through to Killerbee, but you are definitely on to something that the market for R superhero films isn't weak. Especially since those movies can't rely on China to reach those numbers.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post

    Both Deadpool movies earned their Rs with abandon and glee. And I expect that while it is low on Disney's priority and they just want to put it out there to finish the trilogy and get away from it, that Deadpool 3 will earn it too.

    Then in like 10 years I see the MCU rebooting Deadpool for pg13.

    I don't think Deadpool 3 will be a part of the MCU, despite being owned by Disney and made by Marvel Studios.
    If I had to guess, I think Deadpool 3 will be a part of the MCU as much as it was a part of Fox's X-Men universe. Which is to say, extremely loosely and not mentioned elsewhere.

  4. #34
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    If the MCU never makes another rated-R movie then I don't see any problem.

    Heck, I wouldn't even have a problem with Disney making a PG-13 Deadpool movie.

    These characters have almost always operated within the PG-13 sphere.
    Black Lives Matter.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    QUOTE=Shadowedeyes;5398562]If I had to guess, I think Deadpool 3 will be a part of the MCU as much as it was a part of Fox's X-Men universe. Which is to say, extremely loosely and not mentioned elsewhere.
    [/QUOTE]

    I have already called this as well. I mean what can you do with a character that breaks the 4th wall and is aware he is a fictional character?

    However with Blade it is going to be harder.

    One thing I would say about the idea of Ryan coming back of pg 13. sometimes it is better to go out on a high , if you are hoping Deadpool 3 ends with a high. Ryan should bow out with a film trilogy.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-25-2021 at 07:49 AM.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Sigh why do people do this

    movies.jpg


    Using a small snapsnot from 2014 to 2021 of the R-rated Superhero movies on this list. You have 2015 Kingsman, 2016 Deadpool, 2017 Logan and Kingman, 2018 Deadpool 2 and 2019 Joker. That is a whole freaking 1 film per year.

    That is strong market to you? Joker is the anomaly and isn't norm for a performance of a movie of that kind the median is wayyy lower . But compare mediocre-ass movies like Antman and Wasp or Venom performance at the box office to the very best R-rated movies like Logan and Deadpool and you will understand these companies don't waste their time making R movies. Numbers don't lie right?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 02-25-2021 at 09:04 AM.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Sigh why do people do this

    movies.jpg


    Using a small snapsnot from 2014 to 2021 of the R-rated Superhero movies on this list. You have 2015 Kingsman, 2016 Deadpool, 2017 Logan and Kingman, 2018 Deadpool 2 and 2019 Joker. That is a whole freaking 1 film per year.

    That is strong market to you? Joker is the anomaly and isn't norm for a performance of a movie of that kind the median is wayyy lower . But compare mediocre-ass movies like Antman and Wasp or Venom performance at the box office to the very best R-rated movies like Logan and Deadpool and you will understand these companies don't waste their time making R movies. Numbers don't lie right?
    It's a strong market in its own right. lol. maybe not as massive as MCU-Star Wars but a strong market that no one can argue needs to die out because the most powerful studio cannot make their movies. Also when you think about the creative freedom that comes along with it, for many directors and actors, it is a blessing since they don't have to worry about how ill-defined the definition of family-friendly approach is.

    Joker was not an anomaly, deadpool 1 and 2 laid the foundation. I would easily predict a deadpool 3 could also have done a billion after Joker but I don't know now

    Additionally I think for fans, they cared more about the stories and how and why they were earning the R, not the money, R is not just dropped like that. make the story get the ratings. Fiege issue here is, he is not interested in the story and I think this is going to be bigger problem for him even with PG Blade/X-Men.

    For Fiege to say this, maybe Ryan's pitch for deadpool 3 was already too much to handle so him calling it off here, was the best thing to do, however what will happen when Fiege starts reading other X Books and realise there is not much difference anyway?


    Lastly I would not be surprised if Venom 2 gets R. the market has been far too unleashed to go back to the bottle.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-25-2021 at 09:30 AM.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I am not surprised. Kind of disappointed, especially for Blade, but not surprised.



    I don't think anyone is against a family friendly approach - I think the issue is more the lack of variety. I think the genre, any genre, is healthiest when there's a wide range of styles, tones, and ratings.
    I readily acknowledge the lack of variety and that can be problematic. But I do think Disney wants to reach the broadest of audiences as possible (including children) and going the PG-13 route is the best way of doing that. It's made them a lot of money. But I get your point. Feige seems to like the light-hearted and fun approach to movie and television making, and I like it too. I know it's not for everyone though.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    I understand it from a business stand point ( they want as many people as possible to see their films) but some characters in Marvel lore definitely deserve to be more mature and R rated . If not R rated at least make them MA rated like the Netflix shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Punisher, Luke Cage. It sucks the new Blade reboot will be PG-13. Blade is a character that SHOULD be rated R like Deadpool.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    It's a strong market in its own right. lol. maybe not as massive as MCU-Star Wars but a strong market that no one can argue needs to die out because the most powerful studio cannot make their movies. Also when you think about the creative freedom that comes along with it, for many directors and actors, it is a blessing since they don't have to worry about how ill-defined the definition of family-friendly approach is.

    Joker was not an anomaly, deadpool 1 and 2 laid the foundation. I would easily predict a deadpool 3 could also have done a billion after Joker but I don't know now

    Additionally I think for fans, they cared more about the stories and how and why they were earning the R, not the money, R is not just dropped like that. make the story get the ratings. Fiege issue here is, he is not interested in the story and I think this is going to be bigger problem for him even with PG Blade/X-Men.

    For Fiege to say this, maybe Ryan's pitch for deadpool 3 was already too much to handle so him calling it off here, was the best thing to do, however what will happen when Fiege starts reading other X Books and realise there is not much difference anyway?


    Lastly I would not be surprised if Venom 2 gets R. the market has been far too unleashed to go back to the bottle.
    Rumor has it that Venom 2 is rated R.

  11. #41
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I readily acknowledge the lack of variety and that can be problematic. But I do think Disney wants to reach the broadest of audiences as possible (including children) and going the PG-13 route is the best way of doing that. It's made them a lot of money. But I get your point. Feige seems to like the light-hearted and fun approach to movie and television making, and I like it too. I know it's not for everyone though.
    Even if it were for everyone, sometimes you just want something different here and there - but the MCU is becoming more and more of the market. I get why for Disney, but it's still kind of crappy...

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    Rumor has it that Venom 2 is rated R.
    They said that about the first movie and we know how that turned out.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  13. #43
    【Cool And Good】 The Gold Stream's Avatar
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    guess we have to settle for x-rated

  14. #44
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Stream View Post
    guess we have to settle for x-rated
    What like Porn parodies?

  15. #45
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    Well Ill believe it when I see it. Not sure how you do a blade movie thats not R rated. Almost anything else I can see.

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