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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Oracle as far as being shut in behind doors, acting as a costume-less superhero and coordinating from the sidelines.

    It isn’t nobler to insist over and over that your paralysed character doesn’t ‘need’ a costume or to be mobile when the opportunity’s never been afforded to them, especially when all they ever seem to be is support for other characters. Babs can easily be a paralysed Batgirl, she can easily have adaptive technology that allows her to act as a cyber-detective on the go.

    And before people start in with “but there’s thousands of capes!” Yeah, there are: so why don’t we take one of them away to make room for our paralysed hero? Let her have a visible identity for a community that’s always been made to feel invisible. Barbara Gordon is a character who has always broken boundaries and this should be one of them: making an inaccessible world accessible.

    Plus, the point of our mobility equipment is, ya know, mobility? Why not show that off rather than act like the chair would be too much of a hinderance?
    The claim that oracle was just support for other characters gets more and more disingenuous each time it is repeated. It's a falsehood based on bias and nothing more.

  2. #167
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    Not in the slightest. Trunks have tons or symbolic and artistic significance, and are an important part of Superman and Batman's core identity. You should really watch this, it's fascinating:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwK2EFO0Z6U

    BTW, "Professor Geek" isn't just a moniker, he is an actual professor. He knows what he's talking about.

    To put it simply, what do wrestlers and bodybuilders usually wear? Oh yeah, they wear trunks. So no, trunks are not "dated" at all.
    He thinks wrestling fashion is outdated as well.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  3. #168
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The silent movies certainly were, which the character is from.The whole purpose of glasses identity is making fun of things.
    "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
    That's exactly what it's for. there were things like Clark poking fun at nuclear paranoia and stuff like that.The thing is,old comics never felt safe.It boldly could be on the wrong side of history.Unlike,it trying to make superman always being right.when he ain't.
    I'll have to take your word for it - but it hasn't been for satire most of the time.

  4. #169
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    Not in the slightest. Trunks have tons or symbolic and artistic significance, and are an important part of Superman and Batman's core identity. You should really watch this, it's fascinating:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwK2EFO0Z6U

    BTW, "Professor Geek" isn't just a moniker, he is an actual professor. He knows what he's talking about.

    To put it simply, what do wrestlers and bodybuilders usually wear? Oh yeah, they wear trunks. So no, trunks are not "dated" at all.
    Wrestlers and bodybuilders today aren't held with the same fascination as the circus days. It's not a thing I'd see them adopting. If you really want to do the "modern wrestler" trunks look, then them still wearing anything above the waist is outdated.

  5. #170
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    He thinks wrestling fashion is outdated as well.
    Not outdated - but they wear those to show off their bare muscles. Basically clothing to cover as little as possible. Not part of a larger costume. So why would heroes borrow from that?

  6. #171
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    To put it simply, what do wrestlers and bodybuilders usually wear? Oh yeah, they wear trunks. So no, trunks are not "dated" at all.
    Trunks are dated, The superhero genre has a style and design sense that has change over the years. It is not anything based in reality but each generation has different design aspects and aesthetics from the time period that they are in. Early heroes had domino masks and capes, This generation has hoodies and trenchcoats as one of the things. Over the years every hero except Batman and Superman(and both those heroes have moved away trunks only for them to be brought back) has moved on an adapted suit with the design aesthetic of the superhero period. The most obvious example was the "extreme era".

    Trunks are dated because most heroes don't even wear a costume made out of cloth. Like I said it is not based on real-world logic but the progression of in-world superhero concept logic. Heroes went from cloth to spandex, to leather, to microfiber carbon or kevlar. Most heroes adapted their version of it , change is part of the genre. Superman looks dated because this era has a design looks that keeps the old aspects genre but changes things to "modernize" them




    including Superman himself


    I can't tell you why these things change because not all choices are based on realism or logic. Superhero comics have a group design sense that changes from time to time and stuff from the past just seem old.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 03-05-2021 at 03:12 AM.

  7. #172
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Not outdated - but they wear those to show off their bare muscles. Basically clothing to cover as little as possible. Not part of a larger costume. So why would heroes borrow from that?
    I don't know about others.But,clark liked to flex his muscles.His entire shtick is based on strength.That's exactly why he used to wear the skin tight costume.It's not part of a larger costume.It is the costume.It's a strongman suit.Superman is a strongman from space who happens to be a hero because he saves people and junk(He's a vigilante).Being a hero is not some kindof job or atleast even a hobby. People would most likley roll their eyes if you said,"i am going to be a hero".
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  8. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The claim that oracle was just support for other characters gets more and more disingenuous each time it is repeated. It's a falsehood based on bias and nothing more.
    Go on then, tell me when she had her own adventure that didn’t rely on other characters operating for her?

  9. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The claim that oracle was just support for other characters gets more and more disingenuous each time it is repeated. It's a falsehood based on bias and nothing more.
    Tell me: when was she not reliant on the actions of the birds of prey? Of the Bat family? On any of her agents?

  10. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to wait and see if it's indeed "never" before getting upset about it?
    It’s been laid out explicitly both in text and in interviews from James Tynion. He wants a stream-lined Bat-line, he’s also emphasised the term “Judiciously” for Babs. In his interviews he puts focus on Oracle and how she’s working “More and more behind the scenes.” Additionally in his speech for Babs, he declares that “It’s not like this city will go wanting for a Batgirl” as in, he doesn’t put any value in the role and feels that it can be easily filled. His narratives will not allow her to suit up because it isn’t ‘needed.’

  11. #176
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Tell me: when was she not reliant on the actions of the birds of prey? Of the Bat family? On any of her agents?
    Yeah, Oracle is just not on the same level as Batgirl. Working the computers is not the same as being a superhero. Is there someone who would want their favorite crimefighter be relegated to master hacker instead?
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  12. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The claim that oracle was just support for other characters gets more and more disingenuous each time it is repeated. It's a falsehood based on bias and nothing more.
    James Tynion HIMSELF has referred to her as a support role!

  13. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Yeah, Oracle is just not on the same level as Batgirl. Working the computers is not the same as being a superhero. Is there someone who would want their favorite crimefighter be relegated to master hacker instead?
    Exactly. The issue isn’t that your favourite character isn’t there, but that you have put up with them ordering around much less interesting characters. Plus, it’s an actual falsehood that we disabled people don’t or can’t use our mobility equipment to get out? Or that paralympic heroes can’t be idealised in the same way as athletes and the strong-men were.

  14. #179
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Exactly. The issue isn’t that your favourite character isn’t there, but that you have put up with them ordering around much less interesting characters. Plus, it’s an actual falsehood that we disabled people don’t or can’t use our mobility equipment to get out? Or that paralympic heroes can’t be idealised in the same way as athletes and the strong-men were.
    Yep.

    If management wants to use Barbara as tech support, so be it. Cass or Steph were fine Batgirls in the past and would be so in the future, IMO. But the idea that it wouldn't be a stepdown for Babs is kind of silly, frankly.
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  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Trunks are dated, The superhero genre has a style and design sense that has change over the years. It is not anything based in reality but each generation has different design aspects and aesthetics from the time period that they are in. Early heroes had domino masks and capes, This generation has hoodies and trenchcoats as one of the things. Over the years every hero except Batman and Superman(and both those heroes have moved away trunks only for them to be brought back) has moved on an adapted suit with the design aesthetic of the superhero period. The most obvious example was the "extreme era".

    Trunks are dated because most heroes don't even wear a costume made out of cloth. Like I said it is not based on real-world logic but the progression of in-world superhero concept logic. Heroes went from cloth to spandex, to leather, to microfiber carbon or kevlar. Most heroes adapted their version of it , change is part of the genre. Superman looks dated because this era has a design looks that keeps the old aspects genre but changes things to "modernize" them




    including Superman himself


    I can't tell you why these things change because not all choices are based on realism or logic. Superhero comics have a group design sense that changes from time to time and stuff from the past just seem old.
    As I said before you really ought to watch the video. It explains far more eloquently than I can. I provided the link, it's not like I'm telling people to go and look for it themselves. If someone provided a scan from a comic would you not read it? If the video was an hour or so that would be one thing, but it's only seven minutes. Is that really asking too much of people?

    But anyway, in the first picture those are not heroes, they are villains (with the exception of the woman on the far left). That entire series was written by a guy who hates superheroes. Not exactly a valid example. For the second, I've never even heard of this "Jupiter's Legacy." Those are not cultural icons so how they dress is irrelevant. Third, without the trunks Superman looks like he's wearing a giant onesie. Also the design lacks a proper colour balance and is too top-heavy. He doesn't give the impression of stability and confidence that he should. Instead he looks like he could topple over any minute. The red belt helps but it's not enough. Also, notice how without the trunks Superman is generally portrayed as uncertain and filled with self-doubt, like in "Man of Steel?" Heck, even in that very picture Superman looks miserable and unsure of himself. That's no coincidence.

    Put simply, without the trunks Superman looks ridiculous, the design doesn't work, and without them he's portrayed as weak, insecure and reluctant.

    In any case, what you call dated, I call iconic. Superman should stand out from the pack. He should not look the same as everybody else, especially if that design doesn't work.
    Last edited by hareluyafan1; 03-05-2021 at 08:02 AM.

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