Are there any DC characters that truly feel "outdated"

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Slam Bradley is actually timeless. In other eras he's called Mannix, or Hunter, or McClain, or Dekker.

His yellow peril origins, unfortunately, have not aged as well.

[DrNewGod]

His yellow peril origins, unfortunately, have not aged as well.

Okay. Ya got me there.

[Jim Kelly]

Funny, weren't both Captain Boomerang and Colonel Computron trademarks of the Willard Wiggins toy company? The whole point was to spoof the marketing of these toys for kids and the cold-blooded exploitation epitomized by Wiggins. Seems to me that still works. Maybe the problem is later writers have forgotten the satiric purpose of those characters. They are supposed to look corny. Obviously, someone like Digger Harkness would give up the moniker, because it was only invented for him as Wiggins' pitchman. And once he quit that company, he wouldn't even be able to use it without violating his contractual agreement--like the Lone Ranger Clayton Moore not being able to become the Lone Ranger.

I see "out-dated" (not a term I'd use) as a seasoning. Sometimes in a story, you want to use that spice--you want something to have the feel of a bygone era. Heck, look at how many T.V. shows still do a 1940s film noir episode with their characters.

You can just as easily argue that gunslingers from the Old West belong to the past--that doesn't mean they aren't an important symbol that a writer can always employ with great effect. Saying something is "out-dated" is admitting to having no imagination.

[Vakanai]

Hmm...the characters themselves aren't dated, but Superman's and Batman's sense of fashion feels very, very dated every time artists continue to draw them wearing trunks or bring back the trunks.

[Psy-lock]

Red Rocket, Red Star and every other Russian hero with Soviet symbolism.

[Restingvoice]

I was going to go with Captain Nazi, but then he's not really a DC character, or at least wasn't in his inception. I was really surprised they brought back KGBeast, though. No idea why they thought that would be a good idea. Without vast reworking, they knew he'd age out of his backstory being feasible soon enough. Very limited self-life, as done. But then, there was Bea's reworked origin that I could say the same for.

While I agree many have reflected the anxieties of their time, I don't think the vast majority are really tied to those times or anxieties. I think the ones that are can suffer from it (especially when it's more explicit like Wonder Woman and WWII and it being difficult to still have a reason she was where she was after). Most of the characters had those anxieties at the time they big in cultural norms of the nations, only to have different anxieties as the American public (because they are chiefly American products for American consumption) changed. I suppose I think more about obsolete backstories (which I feel Dick Grayson and Hal Jordan may have soon, as will Kate Kane unless her DADT backstory has been changed and I didn't notice) than the emotional tone of them, since those change drastically over time.

I actually do want to comment on the rich playboys - the richness of them became much more extreme and much more relevant to their stories in the last 30-40 years than it was before that. I'm not really sure when characters like Diana and Clark got to be significantly higher on the income scale than they initially were.

They updated KGBeast story to now be a freelance mercenary that has been hired by Penguin or Bane

Kate will keep her DADT backstory now that characters age slowly, in fact, all of them do, and outside of comics it's important because there's a new generation of reader who didn't even know that DADT used to exist

As for Dick & Hal, while I think those characters absolutely sing when they are set in the time periods they were created for, Cooke's New Frontier being a perfect example of that in regards to Hal's Korean War history, I think talented creators could find ways of updating their origins. A travelling circus may be a thing of the past, but live performances featuring death-defying acrobats will certainly be around for decades to come as long as people keeping paying to see these kinds of shows in places like Vegas and Macau. They just need to re-contextualize the nature of Haley's Circus to be something more modern and the character still works just fine. Hal's a little trickier, as the nature of aerial combat and our view of the space program has changed significantly since the 50s. The 2011 movie tried to address this by pitting Hal against drones, but it does feel like the idea of fighter pilot turned test pilot could use some tweaking. I would go the route of having Hal being a test pilot for today's cutting edge spacecraft but who is viewed by his peers a throwback to the long gone days of the Space Race. I think it's better to lean into his roots, rather than run away from them or pretend that being a test pilot today means the same to people as it did in the 50s and 60s.

Hal used to be in Korean War? Well the Green Lantern Secret Origin in 2005 never mention that. He's just a test pilot, after being fired from the air force

quietly deletes the Colonel Computron pitch that's been worked on for years

a single tear rolls down Bored's face

Rename him Digitron and make him a cyber villain in general
Well... digitron is still a bad name

I hate to say it, but the Silver Age Green Lantern.

Attachment 106548

Like it or not, fighter pilots, test pilots, and even astronauts don't hold the cache they did in the early 1960s.

but they still exist so it's not dated, it's just not as glamorous

[John Venus]

Any character who is not a member of any specific culture but adopts their symbols or becomes better than the natives at their own culture, won't be accepted in the current climate.

Any character who fits the Dragon Lady archetype has to be revamped. I think femme fatales are still popular though.

[phantom1592]

As for Dick & Hal, while I think those characters absolutely sing when they are set in the time periods they were created for, Cooke's New Frontier being a perfect example of that in regards to Hal's Korean War history, I think talented creators could find ways of updating their origins. A travelling circus may be a thing of the past, but live performances featuring death-defying acrobats will certainly be around for decades to come as long as people keeping paying to see these kinds of shows in places like Vegas and Macau. They just need to re-contextualize the nature of Haley's Circus to be something more modern and the character still works just fine. Hal's a little trickier, as the nature of aerial combat and our view of the space program has changed significantly since the 50s. The 2011 movie tried to address this by pitting Hal against drones, but it does feel like the idea of fighter pilot turned test pilot could use some tweaking. I would go the route of having Hal being a test pilot for today's cutting edge spacecraft but who is viewed by his peers a throwback to the long gone days of the Space Race. I think it's better to lean into his roots, rather than run away from them or pretend that being a test pilot today means the same to people as it did in the 50s and 60s.

Yeah, where are we getting the idea that circuses are gone!?? They still exist and still travel. They aren't outside in tents around me.. but inside the local sport arena/civic center... but I literally saw trapeze artists 2 years ago. They didn't operate without a net... but then they weren't the flying graysons


As for Hal? There are still jets... Jets still need testing. Test Pilots still exist. Always will. Still requires fearlessness and guts... Hal's Showcase 22 origin story is still 100% legit. Maybe retconning in the military stuff isn't as accurate, but he started as a Test pilot for Ferris... Just keep it simple. And honestly, 'civilian flight/space programs' are only going to get more relevant. Hal's still fine the way he is.

[Robanker]

Of the big IP, not counting stuff like General Glory (shameless Caption America pastiche), it may actually be Kamandi.

I like it, but the reverence for Kirby's vision has largely kept it stale for decades. It always feels like a 70s post apocalyptic sci-fi movie. I adore those, but the vibe is 50 years old and I've never seen much done with it that works that isn't just playing the hits, so to speak. Sometimes it gets a very pretty coat of paint, but it's that same story as always. Even the Metal Men resolved the Magnus/Platinum relationship recently.

Of Kirby's successful stuff at DC, I feel like Kamandi just hasn't changed any time we really get to see him. Again, I'm not saying any of it's bad, just that it's been a stale IP at least if my memory serves. I want to stress that I actually enjoyed a lot of Kamandi I read.

Contrast Kamadi with New Gods and what people like Morrison or King get out of there latter whereas the former is always pretty much the same.

[Buried Alien]

Kamandi is like a thing DC has been trying to make happen for fifty years without success.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[bat39]

This is a cudgel that's used against many DC characters, so I think it's worth discussing with as much nuance as we're able to muster.

I can certainly see how many would view DC's roster, or superheroes in general, as very old fashioned. Most of them are, after all, half a century old or older. They are largely the products of white men who were often Jewish and living in NYC. These characters are shaped by their experiences growing up through the Great Depression, WW2, and the Cold War looking to make a buck from children with disposable entertainment. As a result, the characters reflect the anxieties, preoccupations, and prejudices of their times, so superheroes are overflowing with rich playboys, scientists, test pilots, spies and soldiers fighting a never-ending battle against villains that almost always evoke the Nazis.

However, does that mean these are characters that we need to move on from in favor of newer, fresher characters that better reflect the diversity of our culture? I can certainly see that argument. It's undeniable that the adventures of straight white men have dominated the superhero market for decades to diminishing returns, particularly once the Baby Boomers fully took the creative reigns and the superhero genre became more and more focused upon itself rather than trying to reach out to newer audiences.

This inward looking aspect of the superhero readership has also made it increasingly difficult to introduce new characters because the dwindling readership, forever obsessed with the old characters and comics they'd first fallen in love with as kids, frequently aren't interested in reading anything that isn't a retelling, reimagining, recontextualization, or continuation of those old comics.

So, with not enough readers to showcase both the old characters and the new, what should DC do? Didio's 5G plan of aging out the older heroes in favor of replacing them with the next generation clearly wasn't something DC's current corporate overlords felt was going to work.

I don't think there's a solution that's going to please everyone. There are simply too many great characters available to DC and not enough readers to justify giving them all time to shine. Choices are going to have to be made and there are going to be fans of certain characters left out in the cold, which will inevitably lead to resentment, bickering, and the usual nonsense.

In the end, there's very few characters that DC has that I would call outdated. Time and time again, great creators have shown that any character can be tweaked or shown in a new light that makes them just as relevant today as they were when they were first created. All it takes is the right creators who are able to make that character feel new again.

What do you think?

This is inevitably going to be very subjective.

And I hate to say it, but, like a lot of things in the world today (and especially in the US), a lot of it will come down to one's political inclinations.

I mean, if you look at the world from a left-leaning perspective, then you can argue that a character like Batman is 'outdated'. He's a white male billionaire who spends his nights violently beating up criminals and mental patients with the arms-length support of the local police department. Hell, some would even regard such a character as a villain...

And yet, this 'outdated' character remains the most popular superhero in the world, and the most powerful and viable brand in the genre, in the US and across the globe!

For all the talk about characters created by straight white men from the early part of the 20th century being outdated though, many of these characters have today become even greater worldwide pop-cultural behemoths than they've ever been before! I guess you're talking mainly about comics in your post, but you have to consider that in the larger context, the comics are today just the foundation for multimedia brands - and those brands are thriving like never before, with only superficial updates!

Which is not to say that comics do not need more diversity, or that diverse characters can't be successful. On the Marvel end of things, the success of Black Panther (also a character from the early part of the 20th century, but who's been relatively obscure till recently) has shown the way in that regard. Over at DC, John Stewart, who's seldom been the face of the Green Lantern franchise in the comics, became a breakout hit in the JLU cartoon, become THE GL for a generation of fans, and hopefully will be in any future film adapting the franchise. Black Adam's coming up. And its not just headlinig characters, but diverse supporting characters as well who've gained a lot of traction - Vibe from the Flash TV show for instance.

But the comic-book fandom is a relatively small part of the overall pie. And the portion of the comic-book fandom who worry about the characters being 'outdated' (whether for political reasons or not) is even smaller. Just to put things into perspective...

[Robanker]

Kamandi is like a thing DC has been trying to make happen for fifty years without success.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'm lifting this directly from a conversation I've had about this, but Kamadi is always about the same kid on the same world that got ruined by the same disaster with the same gun and Thor's same magnificent hair.

Kirby had a solid vision but it feels like the only people who bring Kamandi back are those too in love with it to take a real swing. That doesn't mean they're bad books, but I could never fault someone for saying it feels old.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Hal used to be in Korean War? Well the Green Lantern Secret Origin in 2005 never mention that. He's just a test pilot, after being fired from the air force

but they still exist so it's not dated, it's just not as glamorous

I think that's the crux of the problem. When Hal was first invented, being a test pilot turned space ranger was the height of cool. Now, not so much. My fondness for the character lies largely because he harkens back to that era. That said, there's certainly an appetite for heroic astronauts, which GL: Earth One was able to mine to great effect. I just think the test pilot angle needs an update to keep the character feeling like he's pushing the envelope. Test pilots aren't really doing that these days.

As for Hal's military service. I don't think just having him serve in the Air Force is enough. Like I mentioned earlier, there's a big difference between being a fighter pilot now and being one during the Korean or Vietnam Wars (which Hal was a veteran of Post-Crisis). I think the character is missing something if he hasn't seen actual combat, which New Frontier was able to explore excellently. Having him flying around in million dollar jets for the world's largest military or do bombing raids on 3rd world countries doesn't really have the same vibe to me.

[Killerbee911]

Superman but its feature not a flaw. A well done Superman feels outdated, other than couple Shonen anime Protagonist they don't build heroes like that anymore. I saw people gushing over the scene in Superman and Lois where he saves the kid from the car and I get why it works but feels alien today as well.

[Restingvoice]

I think that's the crux of the problem. When Hal was first invented, being a test pilot turned space ranger was the height of cool. Now, not so much. My fondness for the character lies largely because he harkens back to that era. That said, there's certainly an appetite for heroic astronauts, which GL: Earth One was able to mine to great effect. I just think the test pilot angle needs an update to keep the character feeling like he's pushing the envelope. Test pilots aren't really doing that these days.

As for Hal's military service. I don't think just having him serve in the Air Force is enough. Like I mentioned earlier, there's a big difference between being a fighter pilot now and being one during the Korean or Vietnam Wars (which Hal was a veteran of Post-Crisis). I think the character is missing something if he hasn't seen actual combat, which New Frontier was able to explore excellently. Having him flying around in million dollar jets for the world's largest military or do bombing raids on 3rd world countries doesn't really have the same vibe to me.

No it's not but war is not cool today either, and I personally don't have a problem if the origin isn't cool. I like the simplicity, and down-to-earth-ness of him just being a test pilot.