MCU Captain Marvel vs. MonsterVerse Godzilla

[Stigmazilla]

This... did not address my point at all.

Your point is that a force over a smaller surface area has a different effect then it does over a large one. Which is fine. No one I don't think is fighting you on that basic physics rule.


What everyone else is arguing is even though Carol's hits are smaller and are disrupted differently they still won't be enough to hurt Godzilla.

[big_adventure]

Not everyone else - I argue that Carol can fly right through Zilla.

We aren't going to be able to prove it, of course.

[Twickster]

Not everyone else - I argue that Carol can fly right through Zilla.

We aren't going to be able to prove it, of course.

The basic problem we have is that the Sanctuary II has no durability feats - which while valid is still a bit riddiculous to ascribe to it no durability whatsoever. It's a city-sized space ship. It's still made of space age metal, at a minimum, capable of bearing its own weight, thousands of Thanos' own troops and ships, and the rigors of acceleration and space travel. It's the flagship of the galaxy's premier tyrant who makes everyone else (including races with planet-razing weapons) pee themselves. But since it never gets hit with anything save for Captain Marvel it must have the durability of tissue paper, I guess.

EDIT: Also, on a completely unrelated note, I just looked through the "rain fire" scene, and I just found a good Captain Marvel durability feat. Basically, a single shot from the Sanctuary II canon's kills a space whale. Those things need direct shots from Hulk or Giant Man, and ignore Iron Man's laser cutters. Captain Marvel absolutely no-sells dozens of direct hits from these. So add that to no selling Thanos, Kree fighter cannons and the like.

[big_adventure]

The basic problem we have is that the Sanctuary II has no durability feats - which while valid is still a bit riddiculous to ascribe to it no durability whatsoever. It's a city-sized space ship. It's still made of space age metal, at a minimum, capable of bearing its own weight, thousands of Thanos' own troops and ships, and the rigors of acceleration and space travel. It's the flagship of the galaxy's premier tyrant who makes everyone else (including races with planet-razing weapons) pee themselves. But since it never gets hit with anything save for Captain Marvel it must have the durability of tissue paper, I guess.

It has one durability feat: it comes out of the quantum realm at high speed and blows through the Avengers building like tissue while still shrunken down. It also doesn't need a quantum suit to come through the tunnel without consequences, something that every single hero - Hulk, Thor, everyone - needed. And getting knocked through buildings is one of Zilla's durability feats.

Carol also scares off the Dark Aster (Ronan's ship) in Captain Marvel, and we know that ship is capable of fighting through every act of resistance by the Xandarians at the very least. It and it's pals are also capable of razing a planet, no wukkas. But I guess it too is tissue paper.

[big_adventure]

Ah, that's what we've been doing wrong.

[The Arbiter]

Once again, I will continue to posit that Carol's force on a space the size of her fists is significantly higher than the amount of force any one small part of Zilla would suffer from a small nuke. It's always the argument that crops up with comparing explosions to punches. Carol doesn't have to hit harder than the entirety of the force of Castle Bravo, because her entire force can be concentrated in one small point.

Exactly how much force is that? It's difficult to judge precisely. We know by feats that Thanos is a fair bit stronger than Hulk or Thor, and that Carol is a large step stronger than Thanos. We know that Hulk can one-shot space whales, suplex Fenris, hit giant Surtur hard enough to make him feel it and break... Harlem? We know that Carol trivially flies through massive interstellar warships that can at the least smash through massive buildings without taking any damage at all, while shrunken and expanding after leaving the Quantum Realm. We know that she can catch multi-hundred-ton planet-screwy-uppy missiles and send them packing despite them being under thrust. We know that she can take and ignore the combined firepower of a ship that was basically destroying the battlefield inhabited by a number of massively powerful beings - she flew through that without slowing and destroyed the ship. Those big Kree ships are seen as threats to planets, at least to life on those planets, and they run around and flee when Carol looks at them funny, before she had the slightest clue of her limits.

To me that kind of stuff says "can fly a hole straight through Zilla." Mileage may very.

Mileage definitely varies

1: Please stop saying it was a "small nuke". Castle Bravo was iirc the second most powerful Hydrogen Bomb ever detonated. Its thousands of times more powerful (I'm lowballing) then the nuke that DCEU DD and Clark took and I kinda doubt we are saying Carol could just RIP those guys in half like it was nothing.

2: Hulk cant hurt Surtur. His head recoiled. No damage was done. He landed 5 or 6 follow up blows and Surtur didn't even blink.

3: Carol is definitely stronger then Thanos but she still had to exert himself to slowly overpower him. Her durability outstrips her strength imo.

The basic problem we have is that the Sanctuary II has no durability feats - which while valid is still a bit riddiculous to ascribe to it no durability whatsoever. It's a city-sized space ship. It's still made of space age metal, at a minimum, capable of bearing its own weight, thousands of Thanos' own troops and ships, and the rigors of acceleration and space travel. It's the flagship of the galaxy's premier tyrant who makes everyone else (including races with planet-razing weapons) pee themselves. But since it never gets hit with anything save for Captain Marvel it must have the durability of tissue paper, I guess.

EDIT: Also, on a completely unrelated note, I just looked through the "rain fire" scene, and I just found a good Captain Marvel durability feat. Basically, a single shot from the Sanctuary II canon's kills a space whale. Those things need direct shots from Hulk or Giant Man, and ignore Iron Man's laser cutters. Captain Marvel absolutely no-sells dozens of direct hits from these. So add that to no selling Thanos, Kree fighter cannons and the like.

"It has no durability feats" is really all that needs saying.

Besides, I'm not arguing its tissue paper. I'm just very leery on saying its unbelievably durable without proof. I'm sure it's at least as durable as other large mostly metal objects - real life aircraft carriers, skyscrapers etc.

We also get multiple looks at the inside of the thing and it obviously has large open hollow spaces so it's not like a solid block of metal.

In regards to her tanking its bombardment, each individual shot being in the "kill space whale" category doesn't boost her durability anymore then where we previously put it. She already completely ignores Thanos' attacks which are that scale. Taking a few more without harm is expected. Also, that's a durability feat and we are discussing offense. And again, nobody here is arguing Godzilla wins. I think it's a stalemate. He cant hit her.

It has one durability feat: it comes out of the quantum realm at high speed and blows through the Avengers building like tissue while still shrunken down. It also doesn't need a quantum suit to come through the tunnel without consequences, something that every single hero - Hulk, Thor, everyone - needed. And getting knocked through buildings is one of Zilla's durability feats.

Carol also scares off the Dark Aster (Ronan's ship) in Captain Marvel, and we know that ship is capable of fighting through every act of resistance by the Xandarians at the very least. It and it's pals are also capable of razing a planet, no wukkas. But I guess it too is tissue paper.

Smashing through one roof is barely worth noting. It's not like it smashed clean through an entire building- which btw would only put it on space whale level. It was a single roof.

Also, as explained in Ant-Man 1, the suits they wear when they shrink are only to protect against the effects of the particles affecting ones brain chemistry over time. The quantum realm is not enormously damaging. Scott goes there and comes back in just his standard suit, which again is ONLY stated to help protect his brain chemistry. It wasn't designed with the intent of Quantum travel, which is why going quantum was advised massively against.

Also "getting knocked through buildings" is not the Godzilla durability feat that needs discussing here. Showing she can reasonably harm a creature that survives a point blank explosion that's literally thousands of times more damaging then what DCEU characters have survived is what needs discussing.

MCU ships are extremely bare bones on actual feats. They aren't impressive. This board trucks in feats after all.

SO! To once again recap my points.

What offensive feat does MCU Captain Marvel have that suggests she can hurt a creature that eats the following:

1: The second (I think) most powerful nuclear device ever detonated. Not a "small nuke".

2: A punch straight to the jaw from a creature that was creating massive earthquakes with its fists.

3: 3x the damage required to one shot a creature that can trigger and no sell volcanic eruptions and one shot cities by flying close to them and still be good to go

That last feat in particular is an example of him tanking damage from an attack that only hits one small concentrated part of his body. The beams aren't much wider then a person after all and have feats for one shotting Rodan. 3 hit him at once.

I would like answers to these questions. If the answers I receive are "she broke a featless ship" and "she doesn't need feats like that because she is small" then I dont know how to move forward with this debate. *shrugs*

[Sharpandpointies]

What offensive feat does MCU Captain Marvel have that suggests she can hurt a creature that eats the following:

1: The second (I think) most powerful nuclear device ever detonated. Not a "small nuke".

2: A punch straight to the jaw from a creature that was creating massive earthquakes with its fists.

3: 3x the damage required to one shot a creature that can trigger and no sell volcanic eruptions and one shot cities by flying close to them and still be good to go

That last feat in particular is an example of him tanking damage from an attack that only hits one small concentrated part of his body. The beams aren't much wider then a person after all and have feats for one shotting Rodan. 3 hit him at once.

I would like answers to these questions. If the answers I receive are "she broke a featless ship" and "she doesn't need feats like that because she is small" then I dont know how to move forward with this debate. *shrugs*

Gotta go with Arby, here, myself. He makes good points.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Castle Bravo is indeed, the second most powerful bomb ever detonated (Tsar Bomba being its only superior).

Calling CB a small nuke is grossly underselling 15 Megatons of power. To point, Little Boy was 15 Kilitons in comparison.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

1: The second (I think) most powerful nuclear device ever detonated. Not a "small nuke".

Fifth largest nuclear explosion/third largest bomb? Tsar Bomba was uh... 3.2ish times stronger, at a whopping 50Mt. Then there was Test 219, which was an ICBM at around 24Mt, with two other tests both around 20Mt.

More to the point, since the missile that hit Superman was launched from a Silo its closest approximation is a Minuteman. Which usually carry a warhead LESS than 1Mt. Could maybe argue it was a 1.2Mt (US's strongest, but it is a bomb, not a missile) just to steelman the argument... but that still means Castle Bravo was ridiculously more powerful.

It would have killed Superman, if not vaporized him outright.

I would like answers to these questions. If the answers I receive are "she broke a featless ship" and "she doesn't need feats like that because she is small" then I dont know how to move forward with this debate. *shrugs*

Shrug and move on with your day? Can't debate with people who won't actually apply the rules they tell others to uphold.

Castle Bravo is indeed, the second most powerful bomb ever detonated (Tsar Bomba being its only superior).

Calling CB a small nuke is grossly underselling 15 Megatons of power. To point, Little Boy was 15 Kilitons in comparison.

Gets a bit worse when the opinion is that Captain Marvel can't punch through Superman, someone who was reduced to a shriveled husk after being hit by (being super generous) a 1.2Mt nuke.

[The Watcher]

So far I have not seen any feats presented in this thread which demonstrate that Captain Marvel can exceed the damage output of things Godzilla has tanked.

[Tomzilla]

We can actually prove Thanos’s warships are not nuke proof. Back in the first Avengers movie, Tony Stark redirected a nuclear warhead through a portal and annihilated the Chitauri Command Center. Even if you wanted to argue Sanctuary II is more durable than the Chitauri ship, which i have no trouble granting, there’s no evidence to suggest it can withstand a nuclear explosion—let alone a 15 megaton nuke.

It seems the consensus is both characters can’t really harm the other, making this a stalemate. That’s my stance as well. That could very well change in the next few years when new feats are presented.

[big_adventure]

I shall resign all points. Well played Arby.

[Nik Hasta]

Good posting Arby, you love to see a well argued position.

just to steelman the argument...

I've not heard this term before, but I like it.

Steelman vs Strawman, a fun turn of phrase.

[The Watcher]

There is an avenue of attack Captain Marvel can use that hasn't been explored while everyone was focusing on raw physical force. Namely energy absorption. We've seen her absorb energy both from when hit by it and from the environment around her.

I'm not that familiar with this version of Godzilla but my impression is that he needs radiation to be awake and active. If Captain Marvel can simply avoid being hit while slowly and steadily draining all the radiation from him then she could win the match. Assuming my impression regarding his need for radiation is correct of course.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

There is an avenue of attack Captain Marvel can use that hasn't been explored while everyone was focusing on raw physical force. Namely energy absorption. We've seen her absorb energy both from when hit by it and from the environment around her.

I'm not that familiar with this version of Godzilla but my impression is that he needs radiation to be awake and active. If Captain Marvel can simply avoid being hit while slowly and steadily draining all the radiation from him then she could win the match. Assuming my impression regarding his need for radiation is correct of course.

It's more that the more that it helps him heal. After being messed up by the Oxygen Destroyer for example, he went to hibernate to recover. They detonated a nuke in his face to feed/regenerate him with the radiation.