Avengers: Enter the Phoenix (Thoughts?)

[Jabare]

Yes, in the beginning, the story made it seem like they were doing a great job then Marvel pulled a bait and switch. They had a show of power but it's nothing that had any lasting effect or that anyone remembers. Governments still have their nukes and weapons. There is still war and famine in the world. Again you're just posting stuff from the beginning of the event. If you read the whole event they get corrupted and power-hungry. They even start fighting amongst themselves.

Phoenix Namor floods and kills thousands in Africa. Colossus and Magik beating Spider-Man half to death. Cyclops killing Charles Xavier. Infighting amongst themselves. The X-men and the mutants joining the Avengers and other heroes to fight against the Phoenix Five. etc. etc. etc.

here are some synopses from Marvel:

The Phoenix Five built a grand new Utopia, a floating fortress, for mutant-kind. They began working to provide power, food, and water for all the Earth. Not content with just that, they outlawed war altogether.

but it didn't last

Scott realized they needed to hunt down the Avengers, imprisoning some of their members, while the rest were outlaws. After Namor tries to finish them against Cyclops' will, he's defeated by the combined forces of all the Avengers present in Wakanda, their hideout. After Namor fell, his portion of the Phoenix Force was bequeathed to the rest of the Phoenix Five. The Avengers escaped to an unknown location for the X-Men, and Charles Xavier telepathically alerts Scott to stop his actions or he will be stopped.

As the number of Avengers were shrinking day after day, the Phoenix Four's lust for power and tyranny only grew. Professor Charles Xavier attempted to rescue the Avengers that were trapped in Magik's Limbo Prison ...

Emma starts to cave into her dark side, killing a man who once committed a "hit-and-run" against a mutant and later acting more tyrannical to the point of threatening anyone who's not worshiping her.

Cyclops cannot find himself to take the Phoenix from Emma, despite the fact that she taunts him. She tries to tempt him to burn the entire world and start again from nothing, but Cyclops refuses her. Their conversation is interrupted when they are attacked by the combined might of the Avengers and the X-Men. Professor X uses his telepathy to try and shut them down long enough for the Avengers and X-Men to take them down. Cyclops finally gives in and takes Emma's portion of the Phoenix, becoming the sole wielder of the Phoenix Force. After Xavier tries to shut him down again, Scott kills him and completely loses control of himself, becoming Dark Phoenix.[

Aaron created the 10,000 BC Avengers showing that Earth's first superhero defenders were Odin, Phoenix, BP ancestor, Ironfist, Agomotto, Ghost Rider, and Star Brand (might be forgetting someone). Creating another shared link between these characters or mantles or franchises which he's referenced in a few story arcs. I don't remember all the details offhand so you should check out the run if you're curious.

As far progressing Mutants, has the Phoenix ever done that? Didn't the Mutants form their nation and pull back from the rest of the world on their island? If you feel that's what's best for mutant-kind why do they need some mythical savior or destroyer like the Phoenix to do anything? Should have tons of Omega-level mutants on the island.

Lastly, this story has nothing to do with vilifying the X-men or anything to do with the X-men. Wolverine is the only X-men involved in the story. (Do people still consider Namor and X-man?). I suggest checking it out if you're curious. This is not AvX or even related to the X-men besides Jean's warning echo about the Phoenix near the end.

[Tracks]

Yea I was going to say..I can see the criticism that this storyline de-centers the x-men in the Phoenix mythos, and that being upsetting. But don't see how it vilifies the x-men at all.

[Jabare]

It's an interesting criticism because for years especially in the 2000s fans complained about the X-men being so separated from the rest of the Marvel Universe. And then Marvel took steps to actively include them in events and storylines and other fans have complained to keep the X-men in their corner of the Marvel Universe. In terms of Mutants, the X-books often cover very different storylines so at a glance it can feel like it's a separate universe at times.

I'm indifferent. The X-books don't embody what people projected on them in the 80s and 90s anymore. At one point mutants were analogies for minority groups of different races, gender identities, and sexual orientations. Now Marvel just writes stories with characters from those actual groups and mutants embody mutants.

[KaleRylan]

It's an interesting criticism because for years especially in the 2000s fans complained about the X-men being so separated from the rest of the Marvel Universe. And then Marvel took steps to actively include them in events and storylines and other fans have complained to keep the X-men in their corner of the Marvel Universe. In terms of Mutants, the X-books often cover very different storylines so at a glance it can feel like it's a separate universe at times.

I'm indifferent. The X-books don't embody what people projected on them in the 80s and 90s anymore. At one point mutants were analogies for minority groups of different races, gender identities, and sexual orientations. Now Marvel just writes stories with characters from those actual groups and mutants embody mutants.

Interesting points here.

I will agree with you about separating then complaining when they pull it together. That said, my issue with this plot is I don't think the phoenix by itself is a very good plot at all. It's just a random, boring godpower like the other dozen or so running around in the MU. The only thing that makes it special is when it's a personal story about Jean's relationship to herself, her powers, her family, and her friends. I don't even particularly like them giving it to other x-men because it still just makes it a random power-up. It's like as they just started making everyone a super saiyan in DBZ. It stopped meaning anything. Can you have cool stories with that? Sure, but they lose most meaning and just become popcorn punch-outs. And the idea that deciding the new host via mortal kombat tournament has anything on the very meaningful, personal dark phoenix saga just makes it worse.

The second point is interesting. I wouldn't say that marvel as a whole is suddenly incredibly inclusive, but it's an interesting point. Does X-men lose its identity if the rest of Marvel starts being more inclusive? Yeah, I guess. That said, I wouldn't say the world has moved past racism by any stretch and while other books might be about other ethnicities, X-men is still one of the few that is specifically about oppression. I don't know. I've kind of stopped reading the comics in the last few months because I feel like Marvel as a whole has sort of lost sight of what they're aiming for so who cares about any of it? Obviously there are good individual books, but a lot of the more general directions of things just seem very slap-dash. Oh well.

[Rang10]

Yea I was going to say..I can see the criticism that this storyline de-centers the x-men in the Phoenix mythos, and that being upsetting. But don't see how it vilifies the x-men at all.

My critic is more about Jean grey not being part of it. X-men is more of a background but her story can happen on Avengers

[Phoenixx9]

My critic is more about Jean grey not being part of it. X-men is more of a background but her story can happen on Avengers

I can understand a writer wanting "to do something different", but this is not it! This is not good! This is disrupting the characters, past events and consistency of characters, events and futures.

I Hope this is resolved by all being a nightmare that we wake up from with none of this really happening.

[Zero Hunter]

The whole concept of the Phoenix at this point is a dead horse that has been beaten so bad it is just a joke. These ubber powerful mcguffins like the Phoenix Force, The Infinity Gauntlet, or any other ubber powerful thing are usually good for one story, maybe two. After that it is just lazy writers thinking they can do it better and failing every single time.

[BroHomo]

I like how the hypocrisy of the Avengers goes unchecked

[Rang10]

I like how the hypocrisy of the Avengers goes unchecked

what hypocrisy where?

[GodThor]

what's with X-men vs Avengers fandom war lol???

I'll never understand that.

[PhoenixThanos]

what's with X-men vs Avengers fandom war lol???

I'll never understand that.

The X-Men fans want to not be part of the Marvel heroes crowd, they like being separate, yet whinge when mutants are regarded as outcasts lol.

[SugarMan]

what hypocrisy where?

You ever read a story called AvX? If you have, and you still asks this question, then its beyond your understanding, and explains why Marvel puts out this crap.

[cam18]

Phoenix is overused unless there is a good story to be told then it needs to go back to serving its purpose as guardian of creation and mkraan crystal...it always seems to be in Avengers books were classic X-Men mythos seems to get ruined more often then not. I think this part of the reason some fans prefer xmen to be more to itself some ocassional crossover is cool but not to the point other franchises start to dilute the X-brand and I think that happened more and more since the late 2000s.....I miss when it was such and such guest starring the uncanny xmen or the ff4 for a story or arc then you can back to doing your own thing.

[jwatson]

I'm happy. I've convinced myself this was the trade off. The x-office gave the main line office the phoenix and they gave the x-line their mutants. Fair trade. I'm good. Enjoy the thunderbird.

[Zelena]

I can understand a writer wanting "to do something different", but this is not it! This is not good! This is disrupting the characters, past events and consistency of characters, events and futures.

My problem with Hickman’s run.