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  1. #451
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    This just makes their pushing Jon all the odder if synergy was a real thing, heís not Superman anywhere now, so why are they so committed to that? Guess maybe it was exaggerated how important synergy would be to WB.


    Lmao thatís funny, one hell of a birthday present. If theyíre considering making this a period piece though, that could mean Cavill will still be in the mainline universe where he can fight Black Adam or whatever. I personally think heís done though, and heíll certainly never get a solo film again. I donít really mind that though, Iím glad to be rid of Snyderís ďvisionĒ.
    Man of Steel was based on a Nolan pitch to WB based on an idea he and Goyer had, I just learned that today.

  2. #452
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkViKing View Post
    Woah, hold on there, this is not WB...this is The Hollywood Reporter that decided to publish the article.
    This has nothing to do with WB doing anything.

    This comes from the same THR people defended and praised a few weeks ago when they claimed without proof that WB wanted them to not publish an article.
    Hell its not even a 100% confirmed thing because its not from WB...its an article whos source is "A Insider".

    This "WB is the devil" whenever WB is even mentioned, is getting out of hand.
    Now even accusing WB to publish news on a specific day to spite an Actor they still have under contract, when that isnt the case?

    Anyway, thats not the topic.

    After thinking about this all for a while, im not sure about this to be honest.

    Look, im all for the idea that just because a comic book character was always white, doesnt mean he NEEDS to be it in live action too...unless his skin color is essential to the character.

    But i get the feeling WB is casting POC not because they are the best for the role.
    And now this, which of course may not be 100% real considering this is THR.

    But still, lets say it is.
    A black Superman in a period piece with a black director?
    And sure maybe something like this is needed especially in America these days considering how the deeply rooted racism is still so visible.
    Every Good message against Racism and to judge people by their skin color, is something i stand behind.

    But it feels at times not like WB does it for genuine reasons.
    Especially when we consider that they have many POC DC characters they could use but dont.

    Why not do a Calvin Ellis Superman movie in the present time?

    I was on board with a black Superman because i thought that his skin color wouldnt be the main focus, now with how this allegedly shapes up...his skin color might be the main point.
    Because why do a Period Piece otherwise if not to focus on the Racial Injustice?

    I dont know, im very unsure about this.
    I kinda feel the same way you do,although I'm trying not to asume anything until we get a good idea of what exactly they plan to do and what kind of story and tone etc.

    It's a given knowing the screenwriters past works that there will be indeed social/racial commentary in this story,which as a concept I'm not against. After all Superman sort of began as the ultimate Social Justice warrior. However, if it's at the expense of an entertaining story with action, character and telling ,first and foremost a SUPERMAN story,then I don't think this will be successful.

    I too hope they go with Calvin Ellis or a Calvin Ellis like version of Clark Kent (if they still want to use that name for branding purposes). A period piece set in the 30s or 40s or even the 60s and 70s might be interesting as long as they don't ignore the fun and lore of Superman at the expense of heavy handed social commentary and critical race theory stuff. Both can work if done well.. We will see.

    Actually if they take a look at the type of stories siegel and Shuster originally did with Superman, that could be the clue for a way to mix both. Get away from "space jesus" and back more to the two fisted champion of the oppressed who just so happens to fight off the occasional alien invasion or a giant rampaging robot from time to time.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 05-06-2021 at 03:53 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  3. #453
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Man of Steel was based on a Nolan pitch to WB based on an idea he and Goyer had, I just learned that today.
    That's an important point people tend to forget. Snyder didn't have complete control over MOS. It definitely had his visual flair and the film's most controversial moment (Supes killing Zod) was largely his,but a lot of what MOS was is Nolan and Goyer. That movie feels like Batman Begins,but with Superman. Even down to the slower character building first two acts and a bombastic third act and a denouement setting up the "classic" status quo. (BATMAN BEGINS: Batman and Gordon meeting at the Bat signal, MOS: Clark in Glasses joining the Daily Planet.) Its with BvS that it sort of became Snyder's baby fully and it shows,for better or worse.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 05-06-2021 at 04:20 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  4. #454
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah in Future State he was evil and killed all the Flash Family (he was possessed though). It sucked and Iím glad theyíre staying far away from that.
    Isn't a bit too early to say if they are staying away or not from things that were in Future State?

  5. #455
    Spectacular Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I kinda feel the same way you do,although I'm trying not to asume anything until we get a good idea of what exactly they plan to do and what kind of story and tone etc.

    It's a given knowing the screenwriters past works that there will be indeed social/racial commentary in this story,which as a concept I'm not against. After all Superman sort of began as the ultimate Social Justice warrior. However, if it's at the expense of an entertaining story with action, character and telling ,first and foremost a SUPERMAN story,then I don't think this will be successful.

    I too hope they go with Calvin Ellis or a Calvin Ellis like version of Clark Kent (if they still want to use that name for branding purposes). A period piece set in the 30s or 40s or even the 60s and 70s might be interesting as long as they don't ignore the fun and lore of Superman at the expense of heavy handed social commentary and critical race theory stuff. Both can work if done well.. We will see.

    Actually if they take a look at the type of stories siegel and Shuster originally did with Superman, that could be the clue for a way to mix both. Get away from "space jesus" and back more to the two fisted champion of the oppressed who just so happens to fight off the occasional alien invasion or a giant rampaging robot from time to time.
    I feel like a period piece is the best way for them to have their cake and eat it too. It's probably easier to do the champion of the oppressed, a la Smashes the Klan, if it takes place in the past. If its set in the present then the helping out the downtrodden at the expense of railing against the system will always seem too political for a good chunk of the audience. That's not to say that it can't be done (early Morrison N52) but seems like an overall crowd pleaser is more easily accomplished as a period piece.

    One pitfall is relying too heavily on the trope of time period jokes though (I didn't see WW 84 so not sure if it fell intothis trap). Anyone remember That 80s Show? Don't think so.
    "There is nothing quite so perfect as the exact way in which comics combine the word and image." --Alan Moore
    "Before it was a Bomb, the Bomb was an Idea. Superman, however, was a Faster, Stronger, Better Idea." --Grant Morrison

  6. #456
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    That's an important point people tend to forget. Snyder didn't have complete control over MOS. It definitely had his visual flair and the film's most controversial moment (Supes killing Zod) was largely his,but a lot of what MOS was is Nolan and Goyer. That movie feels like Batman Begins,but with Superman. Even down to the slower character building first two acts and a bombastic third act and a denouement setting up the "classic" status quo. (BATMAN BEGINS: Batman and Gordon meeting at the Bat signal, MOS: Clark in Glasses joining the Daily Planet.) Its with BvS that it sort of became Snyder's baby fully and it shows,for better or worse.
    BvS is where the DCEU went from a mixed foundation to irredeemably bad in my eyes. That’s where all of Snyder’s nonsense started, Batman taking center stage, Superman going evil, everything about Eisenberg Luthor.
    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Isn't a bit too early to say if they are staying away or not from things that were in Future State?
    FS Flash didn’t have Wally reclaim the mantle so they’re already breaking with that, and they said some futures outright won’t happen as FS depicted. Given Flash was one of the most unpopular books I feel pretty safe in saying Wally won’t be getting possessed and murdering his Family.
    Last edited by Vordan; 05-06-2021 at 10:10 PM.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  7. #457
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    In his latest video, my friend gets super spicey about this project's latest rumor. He throws in everything from the 1990s Clone Saga to Black Lagoon (Anime). Well worth a watch, IMO -

    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #458
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    my question is really,the glasses.What are they going to do with the glasses?I feel like this a way to do "Whatever" and make it happen.Expand multiverse.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  9. #459
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla2099 View Post
    To me Cavil is easily the best Superman since Reeve. He has the essence of Superman. Nobody at WB had the idea of a sequel with Brainiac?

    I'd also love to have seen a Batfleck Sequel too. Especially reading that Arkham Asylum like script.

    Reboot after reboot is just lazy.
    Disagree. I loved The Dark Knight trilogy - I'd rather not see Joseph Gordon Levitt's "Robin's" take one Batman for the next three movies. I liked Affleck's Batman, but didn't care for the movies he was in. I'm hyped for the upcoming The Batman. Also, I liked Ledger's Joker, disliked Leto's, and liked Phoenix's. (Sadly there's no good Superman films without going back to the Donner films, so I had to use Batman here for my example.)

    Meanwhile I don't care for the MCU's new Peter Parker Spider-Man...but the MCU never reboots...so I'm stuck with a crap take one Peter Parker...forever. I'd love another Spider-Man reboot right about now...

  10. #460
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    I have a lot of complex thoughts on this.

    I’m not at all against a Black man as Clark Kent but, as I’m not Black myself, I also recognize that whether or not the privilege, passing element and power dynamics inherent to his narrative actually ::work:: with a Black actor is not for me to decide. There are a lot of extremely brilliant Black fans who have made the case well for why they don’t actually think Clark Kent works as a dark skinned man specifically because of the assimilation and “hiding in plain sight” element to his story that is not afforded to Black men in this world because of the institutionalized racism that they still endure day in and day out. So while I personally would welcome any Actor....this isn’t my lane. This is not something where a non Black person’s opinion holds weight.

    Speaking of “Lane” though I do think that if they are serious about revamping Clark Kent’s narrative with a Black actor it is IMPERATIVE that Lois Lane also be cast as a Black woman and, frankly, she should be darker skinned than the actor who is cast as Clark.

    Casting Clark as a Black man but keeping Lois Lane white would be an insult on every level. There is a horrible history of denying Black women the role as “the one” and there are very few roles where dark skinned women truly get to be the “I love you until the end of time” partner. And there is a terrible history of Black women, in particular, being replaced with light skinned women both in fiction and in real life. So if this is truly something they are determined to do I truly hope they’ve thought it through regarding how it will impact Lois Lane as well. Because I saw a LOT of chatter on Twitter from people literally saying “ok I don’t really care what Superman looks like but is SHE also going to be Black because now you have my attention.” This could go phenomenally wrong if they don’t understand this.

    Mainly, I just have a lot of concerns about a studio with WB’s history and leadership tackling this kind of project when they still have not even publicly or privately apologized to Ray Fisher. When they fired both a Black director from The Flash movie and won’t move forward with Ava on New Gods. I just don’t trust these people. They aren’t doing this for any other reason than they are greedy and think this will make money. They are using Black people as tokens for their own egos and pocket books and that’s immoral and disgusting. I don’t trust WB in the state it’s in to handle the extremely complex issues that would come into play with this scenario unless they clean house first and issue some genuine apologies for the harm they’ve caused. Ray Fisher was fired from The Flash film. They sabotaged his career. They can’t be trusted with something this important and that’s the real issue.

  11. #461
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    That's an important point people tend to forget. Snyder didn't have complete control over MOS. It definitely had his visual flair and the film's most controversial moment (Supes killing Zod) was largely his,but a lot of what MOS was is Nolan and Goyer. That movie feels like Batman Begins,but with Superman. Even down to the slower character building first two acts and a bombastic third act and a denouement setting up the "classic" status quo. (BATMAN BEGINS: Batman and Gordon meeting at the Bat signal, MOS: Clark in Glasses joining the Daily Planet.) Its with BvS that it sort of became Snyder's baby fully and it shows,for better or worse.
    I liked MOS however I'm curious what the other pitches were. WB likely picked Nolans's idea because of his success on the Batman movies however when it comes to comicbook movies the smart money should always be comic writers.

    Writers who know and love the characters that is [none of that Johns 'I'll always suggest stories written by me' BS]

  12. #462
    Amazing Member Kara Danvers's Avatar
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    The script could be bad. The movie might even be almost as bad as Man of Steel but no one on this forum or Superman fans on YT and twitter knows what choices to make for good black representation better than Ta-Nehisi Coates.

    His skills as a fiction writer could let him down but that's different from what ideas he thinks would be the best commentary.

  13. #463
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kara Danvers View Post
    The script could be bad. The movie might even be almost as bad as Man of Steel but no one on this forum or Superman fans on YT and twitter knows what choices to make for good black representation better than Ta-Nehisi Coates.

    His skills as a fiction writer could let him down but that's different from what ideas he thinks would be the best commentary.
    That doesn't seem to be the picture the Black Panther fans paint of him...

  14. #464
    Amazing Member Kara Danvers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    That doesn't seem to be the picture the Black Panther fans paint of him...
    Black Panther was too ambitious and complex for his first comic run.

  15. #465
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I liked MOS however I'm curious what the other pitches were. WB likely picked Nolans's idea because of his success on the Batman movies however when it comes to comicbook movies the smart money should always be comic writers.

    Writers who know and love the characters that is [none of that Johns 'I'll always suggest stories written by me' BS]
    It was probably partially because of Nolan giving them a billion dollar Batman film in TDK, but also because at that time (2010 ish) the lawsuit with between the Siegel heirs and Warners/DC was hot and heavy and it DC didn't get another Superman film into theaters by a certain time (I believe by 2013/14,) WB risked forfeiting the film rights to the Siegel family and their lawyer. So with the clock ticking and Nolan delivering a solid home video hit with Batman Begins, a phenomenon with TDK and a nearly sure thing with the then in development TDKR ,Nolan was their guy to get a Superman movie that would A): retain the film rights for WB and B) do better at the box office than the last few Superman offerings. Of course from that we got MOS.

    I kinda wonder if this new JJ Abrams led black Superman reboot is also related to Warners needing to retain the film rights to Superman. Even though things are settled between the Siegel estate and Warners, it's possible that if Warners doesn't put out another Superman solo film soon it could forfeit its rights again. Keep in mind its been 8 years since MOS released and its doubtful BvS and JL (either version) would count towards being a Superman movie.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 05-07-2021 at 11:22 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

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